Hijackers were jumpseaters?

[Bubbette]

I just heard on the radio that Foxnews reported that the hijackers were jump seaters. Also, there were at least 12 other hijackers in jump seats in other flights that were grounded after the hijackings. This jives with Israeli intelligence reports that Mulsim terrorists had infiltrated a major US airline.

[pearsonrj]

How can that not have been reported for 13 days?! The flight manifests were available from day one! Also the cellphone calls from the passengers indicated otherwise. Seems very unlikely to me...

[fr8box]

It was reported again last night on the Fox News Channel that the voice recorder recovered from one of the flights (Pennsylvania), indicated one of the hijackers was in the cockpit prior to takeoff. Conversation indicated he was a jumpseating pilot.

Since the report, Fox has reported numerous pilots saying they had pilots of Middle Eastern heritige on their jumpseats. The flights never left the gate due to the grounding of the aircraft after the initial attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center.

Fox has also said numerous pilots have reported theft of their uniforms and I.D. cards from their hotel rooms in the past year.

[GlueBall]

That information would have been known to the gate agent(s) as jumpseaters would have required a cockpit pass or nonrevenue ticket. FOX News is foxy.

Furthermore, the CVR is a continuous 30 minute loop tape, the airplane was airborne longer than that. Unless CVR power was interrupted, conversations recorded on the ground would not have been available at the time of the crash and at the end of the recording.

[ 25 September 2001: Message edited by: GlueBall ]

[Bubbette]

Glueball---it could have been on the ATC tape, not the CVR.

[Tripower455]

That information would have been known to the gate agent(s) as jumpseaters would have required a cockpit pass or nonrevenue ticket.

This is true. I have had millions of those little "used" stubs in the last 10 years. If there was a pilot on the jumpseat, then AA knows who it was. Also, unless they've changed their policy, AA pilots would only ride in the cockpit if the cabin was full.

It would be unusual at least for an AA pilot to be sitting in the front when all of those First and Business class seats were available, especially on a long flight!

[TR4A]

The new CVR are longer than 30 minutes.

[timmccall]

About two months ago in the Delta and Delta Connection crew rooms, a memo was passed around stating that uniforms and ID cards were stollen from a hotel room and to be on the lookout for someone suspicious. Never heard anything more intill this unfortunate incident. I know the memo was out because I read it myself.

[Kaptin M]

It's also possible they may have used the ID's AFTER they boarded to try to gain j/s access, as an "interested pilot".

[fr8box]

As noted before, the newer voice recorders tape conversations for longer than 30 minutes.

Yes, American has changed their jumpseat procedures and allow occupancy of a vacant seat in the cabin. I have jumpseated with American often and without fail have been offered a seat in the cabin or the cockpit. My preference.

[genius-747]

true, its not terribly hard to gain a jumpseat in an aircraft. Usually there is no need to have a pilots uniform, or licence. A logbook with some entries in it would also work, but i`m sure not all the time. Of course this is not the policy for all airlines oviously.

[Viggen]

Genius - very true, it usually only takes a "hello" via chief steward/ess, my logbook (only a PPL student) to get a jumpseat ride as an interested passenger / future commerical pilot. In future however, I won't as insensitive as to ask for a flight deck visit, and will leave the pilots to worry about flying the plane rather than who their flight deck guests really are.

Vig

[GalleyWench]

Viggen, Riding the jumpseat in the US is a bit different than in Europe. At UA to ride in the cockpit you MUST have checked in at the gate with a company ID of an airline that UA has a jumpseat agreement with. If you are non UA pilot I beleive you must be in uniform as well. In either case - the poster was correct who stated that 99.9% of the time if there is a seat in the cabin the jumpseater sits there for takeoff/duration of the flight. Both airlines have released which seats the hijackers were issued boarding cards for.

[moufflon]

I recently jumpseated a lot around the US on UA and Delta as a dispatcher with a US FAA licence and company ID (non-US). With both airlines I was offered a choice of cockpit or cabin. Obviously I was not in uniform being a dispatcher, but I too found it very easy to jumpseat. And I'm glad I did it while I had the chance, I can't see things being the same again, ever.

M

[BenThere]

At United, you check in with the gate agent, show your airline pilot ID and license. The gate agent then enters your information into the computer and a jumpseat boarding pass with your name printed on it is issued. Your final approval is subject to the captain's review and consent. You do not have to be in uniform, only suitably dressed in collared shirt, slacks, etc. Since the attack, only United pilots may jump. I frequently jumped on United though I am from another carrier (thanks, UA). No student pilots, interested people, or others without expressly authorized status may jumpseat.

[Flare_you_fool!]

While I would cringe at the thought of this, it seems recently that the flight crews in particular have been singled out for a lot of close attention during security checks.
The loss of the jumpseat may also be an indicating factor implicating this theory.
To withdraw the jumpseat over 2 incidents of ex employees trying to jumpseat is a little extremist, even in this situation. It's been happening like that for years but if there was evidence suggesting they could jumpseat it's withdrawl is now more understandable.