BA 2166 from Tampa
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Danny perhaps you would like to adopt this as your signature http://usera.imagecave.com/andym/cars/warn.gif
I found it on Rumration
I found it on Rumration
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I'm with you Danny. As you can see, this is only my fifth post on this forum. I normally just observe and occasionally wince as some of the uninformed rubbish that is posted. This one made my blood boil. When I read comments like
and
based on absolutely no knowledge of the facts, I have to say something.
Even the passengers said
So, sounds like a good idea to rate people on their knowledge/lack of tendency to armchair quarterback.
FF
I'm sorry, but this is simply incredible! Evasive action, followed by serious injuries and yet the flight crew continue? First a BA 747 loses an engine, but goes on and then this....You may have serious injuries, but hey, the crew need to get home.
Doesn't say much about BA's incident procedures.
Doesn't say much about BA's incident procedures.
This is neither good nor professional operating. And while you guys pat yourselves on the backs saying well done, I say ....commercial pressures ruled....
Even the passengers said
my folks did say that they thought the whole thing was dealt with fantastically well, and that they were well-informed.
FF
'nough said
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Couldonlyaffordafiver
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There could also be another rating for posters who are some of the many pretenders who voice off on here with their ill informed and very obvious, to us airline pilots and crews, arguments based on nothing but ill informed speculation and PC simulator 'experience'.
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Likewise here, I consider myself to be a reasonably well informed by-stander (well travelled pax & interest in aviation) but I do not have the intimate knowledge of the professionals on here. I will contribute if I have something of genuine interest/use and know from bitter experience not to post to the wrong forums (only did it once, sorry!) and will just observe and absorb when the subjects are beyond my experience/knowledge (most of the time). I wish the know-it-alls would butt out and just sit back and glean some knowledge from the experts, rather than contributing bullsh!t, as if this resorts to being a professionals only forum, then a wealth of knowledge is lost for interested parties and/or wannabes.
Following this thread makes you realise there's some real @rseholes out there, how can anyone know what was going on on that flight if they weren't even on it as pax, let alone flight/cabin crew??!! Must be some talented psychics out there...!
Following this thread makes you realise there's some real @rseholes out there, how can anyone know what was going on on that flight if they weren't even on it as pax, let alone flight/cabin crew??!! Must be some talented psychics out there...!
Just some slightly related experience.
Was aboard a longhaul flight entering US when we got a report from the back of the plane about serious burn injuries to several passengers from a trolley accident. We went back and forth with the cabin crew on triage assessments and assurances that the affected were stable and cared for (moved to first class seats and compresses etc.) We then discussed with passengers and cabin crew the adviseability of continuing vs diverting. You see at cruise you would almost be at scheduled destination by the time you diverted. So the captain called for the equipment to meet us and we continued on to destination.
No, this didn't get in the newspapers. Nothing to see here folks, just move on
Was aboard a longhaul flight entering US when we got a report from the back of the plane about serious burn injuries to several passengers from a trolley accident. We went back and forth with the cabin crew on triage assessments and assurances that the affected were stable and cared for (moved to first class seats and compresses etc.) We then discussed with passengers and cabin crew the adviseability of continuing vs diverting. You see at cruise you would almost be at scheduled destination by the time you diverted. So the captain called for the equipment to meet us and we continued on to destination.
No, this didn't get in the newspapers. Nothing to see here folks, just move on
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I will attempt to share a thought...
I think the word "professional" is now seriously overused.
Is it not a bit bold to use it? Do messages containing it really get perceived as wisdom?
I'll be 50 next year but have never dared use it to describe my skills.
But then I have never earned a living as a doctor, lawyer, accountant, surgeon, footballer or pilot!
I will admit to being chartered once, but I've never been an aircraft or a boat!
I find my occasional visits to pprune entertaining, informative, but aboveall, everso slightly worrying, very much like attending an England away game I imagine.
I think the word "professional" is now seriously overused.
Is it not a bit bold to use it? Do messages containing it really get perceived as wisdom?
I'll be 50 next year but have never dared use it to describe my skills.
But then I have never earned a living as a doctor, lawyer, accountant, surgeon, footballer or pilot!
I will admit to being chartered once, but I've never been an aircraft or a boat!
I find my occasional visits to pprune entertaining, informative, but aboveall, everso slightly worrying, very much like attending an England away game I imagine.
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Describing someone as professional doesn't automatically mean they are good at what they do. It simply means they get paid to do what they do. The assumption is, if someone pays them to do it, then they must know what they are doing. Gerrit?
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Errm excuse me folks whilst you bicker. Sadly for me I am not a pilot - would like to have been but hey I have to make do with sitting out back - and I do that a lot.
Can someone answer the real question here - how come this situation arose in the first place? We're still waiting for the findings on the Brazil mid-air and here we have the potential of another one. Are TCAS alerts an every day occurence or are we heading that way?
Can someone answer the real question here - how come this situation arose in the first place? We're still waiting for the findings on the Brazil mid-air and here we have the potential of another one. Are TCAS alerts an every day occurence or are we heading that way?
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Originally Posted by TimV
and here we have the potential of another one. Are TCAS alerts an every day occurence or are we heading that way?
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Its not the first time someone has been injured by a TCAS RA manouvre, check http://deadbrain.co.uk/news/article_2004_01_20_5549.php out. Also can be found on PPRuNe http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...Virgin+Airprox
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someone has been injured by a TCAS RA manouvre
pb
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TCAS Alerts do happen, but they do not necessarily mean that there was a risk of a "Mid-Air Collision". An aircraft can be assigned 1000 Feet above or below the conflicting traffic but because of the rate of descent or climb, a TCAS RA can be triggered. As an ATC in a complex bit of airspace with a lot of crossing tracks, I have seen it happen several times, but not once a day!
Sims Fly Virtually
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Poster Ratings
Danny, now that's quite a good idea - as long as it is very visible. It might be very useful to point journos to the more reliable posts.
I post rarely on this part of PPRuNe, mostly just read and observe, as I am aware of my limitations (Ex Flight Sim Eng, many moons ago and well out of date!) so I wouldn't expect a high "rating"
As for "carry on or return/divert", I mentioned it at the time on here - flying with my daughter from SYD to SFO back in early 2000, she was taken sick soon after take-off (connected with the reduced cabin altitude) and I wonder, in hindsight, how I would have coped with being diverted and left in Kiwi or somewhere mid-Pacific, with only my debit card (my daughter had earlier in the holiday lost her credit cards!)
As it happened, we had a doc and his wife sitting right in front of us and, in consultation with the CC, I spent the reat of flight with a "green bottle" on my lap; daughter was "uncomfortable", but we made it fine to SFO where her US-Air company medical cover was accepted.
A sensible decision by the CC definitely did not hazard my kid and got her "home" to where we were far better able to cope with the problem (just a 3 day flying ban before we could go onwards to her home in Boston)
Sounds to me (from partial info posted) that the BA crew did exactly the right thing.
Hope all the injured CC were not too bad and wish them a swift recovery.
As a PS, my thanks to PPRuNe as I posted "words" on this forum, praising the UA crew of that flight and asking that my thanks could be passed to the crew and to the pax doc and his wife - I understand that the info was passed on and the doc got my appreciation passed on by UA (hopefully an upgrade on their next flight)
I post rarely on this part of PPRuNe, mostly just read and observe, as I am aware of my limitations (Ex Flight Sim Eng, many moons ago and well out of date!) so I wouldn't expect a high "rating"
As for "carry on or return/divert", I mentioned it at the time on here - flying with my daughter from SYD to SFO back in early 2000, she was taken sick soon after take-off (connected with the reduced cabin altitude) and I wonder, in hindsight, how I would have coped with being diverted and left in Kiwi or somewhere mid-Pacific, with only my debit card (my daughter had earlier in the holiday lost her credit cards!)
As it happened, we had a doc and his wife sitting right in front of us and, in consultation with the CC, I spent the reat of flight with a "green bottle" on my lap; daughter was "uncomfortable", but we made it fine to SFO where her US-Air company medical cover was accepted.
A sensible decision by the CC definitely did not hazard my kid and got her "home" to where we were far better able to cope with the problem (just a 3 day flying ban before we could go onwards to her home in Boston)
Sounds to me (from partial info posted) that the BA crew did exactly the right thing.
Hope all the injured CC were not too bad and wish them a swift recovery.
As a PS, my thanks to PPRuNe as I posted "words" on this forum, praising the UA crew of that flight and asking that my thanks could be passed to the crew and to the pax doc and his wife - I understand that the info was passed on and the doc got my appreciation passed on by UA (hopefully an upgrade on their next flight
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West ATC. It would be great if you could accompany us into Miami or chicago sometime to see the level of atc on offer. TCAS alerts in the states are much more common than in the U.K. A result of using the least appropriate runways due noise considerations, a mix of heavy and light traffic and unfortunately the loss of all of their best airtrafficers in the eighties. The current bunch just want to pass off responsibility to you as soon as they can. The best words in aviation are still "good morning, this is london control".
Good idea.
I frequent a few bulletin boards which have 'moderation systems'; i.e. a percentage of regular posters are automatically given 'mod points' that they can use to flag a particular post as good/bad/offtopic/offensive, etc. The users of these BBs can then browse the board at their chosen level of moderation: this allows them to view all the posts or to gradually restrict themselves to those that have been deemed more 'worthy' by other users.
If you want to see what this is like in action, one of the more well-known BBs with this feature is slashdot, a technology biased site. It also has a detailed explanation of why the moderation system was introduced and how it works.
I frequent a few bulletin boards which have 'moderation systems'; i.e. a percentage of regular posters are automatically given 'mod points' that they can use to flag a particular post as good/bad/offtopic/offensive, etc. The users of these BBs can then browse the board at their chosen level of moderation: this allows them to view all the posts or to gradually restrict themselves to those that have been deemed more 'worthy' by other users.
If you want to see what this is like in action, one of the more well-known BBs with this feature is slashdot, a technology biased site. It also has a detailed explanation of why the moderation system was introduced and how it works.
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gee danny
if people didn't disagree with you, why bother having a forum? just post the facts as YOU see them and leave it at that.
forum is for debate, not for a monolithic answer from your side.
By the way, thanks for the TACIT appology to me!
regards
jon
if people didn't disagree with you, why bother having a forum? just post the facts as YOU see them and leave it at that.
forum is for debate, not for a monolithic answer from your side.
By the way, thanks for the TACIT appology to me!
regards
jon
Two things:
1. Were the cabin crew looking for bunk rest(club class flat beds) as bunks are not fitted to the gatwick 777 s.
2. will the injured cabin crew now seek to sue the captain as they have tried in the past?
1. Were the cabin crew looking for bunk rest(club class flat beds) as bunks are not fitted to the gatwick 777 s.
2. will the injured cabin crew now seek to sue the captain as they have tried in the past?
I hope that the cabin crew were not badly hurt - it can't have been a very nice experience.
I don't know how many seats there are in a ba 777 - is it 330-ish? If so, then the JAR minimum (1 per 50 or fraction of seat numbers) is 7 cabin crew. If, to provide a higher standard of cabin service, ba cabin crews are larger than this, then there will clearly be some redundancy over the legal minimum. E.g. if there are 11 cabin crew of whom 4 become incapacitated, then there are still 7 available if the incapacitation of the others is not sufficiently life threatening to merit an immediate diversion.
I don't know how many seats there are in a ba 777 - is it 330-ish? If so, then the JAR minimum (1 per 50 or fraction of seat numbers) is 7 cabin crew. If, to provide a higher standard of cabin service, ba cabin crews are larger than this, then there will clearly be some redundancy over the legal minimum. E.g. if there are 11 cabin crew of whom 4 become incapacitated, then there are still 7 available if the incapacitation of the others is not sufficiently life threatening to merit an immediate diversion.