Confiscated crew items? Call the DTLR!
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Confiscated crew items? Call the DTLR!
Having been very frustrated by the way in which security staff (directed by the DTLR) are consficating all manner of crew equipment from corkscrews to leathermen, I was encouraged to read the PPRuNe thread on this matter. So I phoned up the DTLR to ask if there was any plan to make a sensible distinction between crew and passengers. The chap said it all depends on what happens in Afghanistan, but it could get worse. He said he understood my arguments (how ludricrous it is to confiscate my tweezers when I have the controls, a fire extinguisher and the crash axe at my disposal) and he would pass my comments on. Now I'm not over-impressed with that as a reply, but if a few hundred like-minded PPRuNers call him on 020 7944 3000perhaps the message will start to get through. (He has heard of PPRuNe)
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Quite agree - I have just had my corkscrew/bottle opener "requistioned" from my overnight bag. Yet there are scores of metal knives and forks, scissors etc etc freely available on the aeroplane. As Flight Crew/Cabin Crew some sort of sensible distinction should surely be drawn.
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At La Guardia last week my tweezers were confiscated too but then they also took my razorblades out of my razor. Totally stupid because they still had them for sale in the airport shop near the departure gate. Go figure.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Take your bottle of duty free (purchased on the aircraft or at the airport shop, hold it carefully by the neck and smash it on the seat infront of or behind you. You are now holding an excellent weapon which can easily be used to do just as much damage as you can with a small knife, and moire than is possible with a screwdriver or corkscrew. -Oh, small point - it only works with glass bottles. Er - the hosties hand out complimentary Champoo on my flights. 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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My FO last week had his Leatherman confiscated at the crew entrance. It was packaged in a brown envelope, addressed with the flight number, and delivered to us on the flight deck to 'guard' for the flight!!!!!!!!
Am I missing something here?
Am I missing something here?
Join Date: May 2001
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PPilcher
Could't agree more I have already written to the CAA to point out the stupidity of ill conceived knee jerk reactions. I returned from the US on Saturday as pax and was handed my lethal glass bottle as I boarded the aircraft. Take a look at the stock contained in Duty Free shops located beyond security detectors and they are full of lethal weapons. We must continue the vigilant security, stop selling DF and other lethal items beyond security and to replace all glass bottles with plastic, and of course remember the champagne flutes which will also have to be plastic. But what then if the plastic cutlery is to be strong enough not to break in your mouth it will then be equally dangerous. I don't know the answer to the last one
Could't agree more I have already written to the CAA to point out the stupidity of ill conceived knee jerk reactions. I returned from the US on Saturday as pax and was handed my lethal glass bottle as I boarded the aircraft. Take a look at the stock contained in Duty Free shops located beyond security detectors and they are full of lethal weapons. We must continue the vigilant security, stop selling DF and other lethal items beyond security and to replace all glass bottles with plastic, and of course remember the champagne flutes which will also have to be plastic. But what then if the plastic cutlery is to be strong enough not to break in your mouth it will then be equally dangerous. I don't know the answer to the last one
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Well said Hugh, et al !
And of course whilst broken glass might indeed be lethally sharp, spilling / splashing about the highly volatile contents of a litre of vodka, gin, and / or god forbid, an Irish single malt - now that really would mean WAR ! - could lead to horrendous consequences should said same come into contact with a naked flame !
So why oh why can you not purchase your duty free at the end of your flight, at all airports ? Indeed it should be compulsory to do so !
But yeah, I know why......
It's 'coz the departure airports are of the belief that a captive / waiting bird in the hand is very likely to buy/spend much more than a pax that's just alighted from a flight, and whom wants to be on their way.
So right now the promise of filthy lucre wins the war against safety and security, e.g. the first two lines of the UK BAA's Mission Statement are as follows:
Just by their (the BAA's) wording alone they put 'needs' ahead of 'safety' (it makes you wonder, doesn't it ?!), and one would have thought that their selling / profiteering of potentially lethal weapons to passengers (and / or terrorists & hijackers) from their airside duty free shops surely puts the stated priority of their two lines above somewhat into question ?!
Ps. I really miss taking my 'Leatherman' to work - I've even got all the extra gadget bits for it too - and everybody knows that a true pilot is a total gadgeter !
And of course whilst broken glass might indeed be lethally sharp, spilling / splashing about the highly volatile contents of a litre of vodka, gin, and / or god forbid, an Irish single malt - now that really would mean WAR ! - could lead to horrendous consequences should said same come into contact with a naked flame !
So why oh why can you not purchase your duty free at the end of your flight, at all airports ? Indeed it should be compulsory to do so !
But yeah, I know why......
It's 'coz the departure airports are of the belief that a captive / waiting bird in the hand is very likely to buy/spend much more than a pax that's just alighted from a flight, and whom wants to be on their way.
So right now the promise of filthy lucre wins the war against safety and security, e.g. the first two lines of the UK BAA's Mission Statement are as follows:
Always focusing on our customers' needs and safety.
Achieving continuous improvements in the profitability, costs and quality of all our processes and services.
Achieving continuous improvements in the profitability, costs and quality of all our processes and services.
Ps. I really miss taking my 'Leatherman' to work - I've even got all the extra gadget bits for it too - and everybody knows that a true pilot is a total gadgeter !
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Avman, don't know if you've ever been to Aldergrove, but it's a bit like a time warp and can take a while to "migrate" through "the system" so I think I understand what BTB is alluding to when he reports in mixed tenses. 
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I can understand that tensions are running high from all circles. Security is expected to make a determined effort to rid flights of all 'dangerous' objects. What i dont understand is removing razor blades. Whats the FO gonna do, give someone the shave of their lives???!!!
I dont mean to drag up the atrocities of a couple of weeks ago, but on the off chance I would have presumed that the skipper of a 737 could potentally kill more people with his a/c than threaten someone with nail clippers.
Security have to understand that its you people that are in charge in the air and in turn should be you that decides whats get on board and what doesnt.
I dont mean to drag up the atrocities of a couple of weeks ago, but on the off chance I would have presumed that the skipper of a 737 could potentally kill more people with his a/c than threaten someone with nail clippers.
Security have to understand that its you people that are in charge in the air and in turn should be you that decides whats get on board and what doesnt.
I had my Gillette Mach3 taken off me this week going on a nightstop from STN. The security staff were nice enough in their condolences at having to follow ridiculous orders.
It did however have the positive effect that for the first time I actually went and had a good look-see at the fire hatchet on the flightdeck. Wow, what tool. I had no idea it would be such a piece of quality kit and so sharp. Boeing does not skimp in this area thats for sure.
Operation Knee Jerk will surely peter-out in the coming months.
Only decent intelligence and pax profiling are the viable areas for development in my book.
The US calls to arm flightdeck crews with firearms could result in some interesting scenarios. John Wayne comes to England...
WWW
It did however have the positive effect that for the first time I actually went and had a good look-see at the fire hatchet on the flightdeck. Wow, what tool. I had no idea it would be such a piece of quality kit and so sharp. Boeing does not skimp in this area thats for sure.
Operation Knee Jerk will surely peter-out in the coming months.
Only decent intelligence and pax profiling are the viable areas for development in my book.
The US calls to arm flightdeck crews with firearms could result in some interesting scenarios. John Wayne comes to England...
WWW
Join Date: Mar 1999
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A lot of this is just an initial reaction which will no doubt be righted with more 'sensible' procedures in the near future.
For the time being its a case of just going with the flow. If all I can find to winge about is the fact that they nicked my nail clippers, then I can live with that.
For the time being its a case of just going with the flow. If all I can find to winge about is the fact that they nicked my nail clippers, then I can live with that.
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Nothin like closin the stable door after the horse has bolted.
What's the point in all this when you can Board a Spanish charter flight bound for the UK with just about anything you like. An EC reg 737 can do just as much damage as a British one. These procedures are nonsense until all countries play by the same rules.
What's the point in all this when you can Board a Spanish charter flight bound for the UK with just about anything you like. An EC reg 737 can do just as much damage as a British one. These procedures are nonsense until all countries play by the same rules.
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What it all boils down to is who is responsible for the security rules and regulations: Correct - Civil Servants. What is the usual qualification of a very senior Civil Servant? Yep - a double first in classics - yes that is a first class honours degree in Latin and another one in Greek awarded by either Cambridge or Oxford universities. To be able to enter these universities to study such material implies a public school education from a notable school. Although such people are very able (in Latin and Greek) they are invariably "Ivory Tower" types with no knowledge of the real world. They intend to remain in their ivory towers of course. Day after day the more sensible airport security officers apologise to me for the ridiculous regulations they are required to enforce. If you really want to learn about REAL security, talk to your ex-military F/O, but of course it would NEVER occurr to these Civil Servants to consult the military about the matters with which they are put in charge.
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Whoops - of course I meant last week. As for whinging about the clippers, I said nothing and took it as read, why shoot the messenger?
Neither did my cabin crew as they took their ice tongs (try explaining to the pax that they couldn`t have ice; trivia I know) Luckily on the next sector we loaded bars containing mineral water in, yes you guessed it, strong GLASS bottles. So they could break the bottles and use them as ice scoops. The lunatics have taken over..
Neither did my cabin crew as they took their ice tongs (try explaining to the pax that they couldn`t have ice; trivia I know) Luckily on the next sector we loaded bars containing mineral water in, yes you guessed it, strong GLASS bottles. So they could break the bottles and use them as ice scoops. The lunatics have taken over..
Quite agree with all above, the policy seems to be that all going airside are treated the same but this is clearly not the case. Engineers still have thier tools airside and the police are allowed to carry firearms airside, much more dangerous than my nail clippers me thinks!. The other huge hole that is STILL in place is that customs, immigration and the police can pass secrurity check points without having bags screened and without walking through the detector arch. I saw it happen recently before the events of the 11th and collegues report that they have seen it after as well. The powers that be need tp get on to this one pronto.
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My point is, that after an event of this magnitude, that procedures are implemented on the fly. Yeah agreed, some are daft in the extreme but Im sure that once, who ever 'they' are, have had a chance to get their breath back then some of the more daft stuff will be eliminated. In the mean time time just deal with it. And for those who think bombarding the DTLR with complaints is the most important issue at the moment, then take a moment to think about what has happened here.
upto 7000 people dead
1000's injured
companies going out of business
hundreds of thousands of people losing jobs and livelyhoods
etc etc
Instead of ranting at the DTLR maybe energies could be spent in more useful areas.
Ok, Im climbing down off my box now
upto 7000 people dead
1000's injured
companies going out of business
hundreds of thousands of people losing jobs and livelyhoods
etc etc
Instead of ranting at the DTLR maybe energies could be spent in more useful areas.
Ok, Im climbing down off my box now