Confiscated crew items? Call the DTLR!
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Yes we have seen some stupid things over the last few days in the name of "security" most of these have been actioned by people who think that they must do something to be seen to be doing there job.
Now is the time for the security people to talk to the people on the front line for the pilots the IPA and BALPA for the maintenance guys the ALAE should all get around the table with the DTLR as well as reprisentatives of the cabin crew and the ground staff this way may be we can inhance security with out the empire building and petty regulations that seem to have sprung up over the years.
Now is the time for the security people to talk to the people on the front line for the pilots the IPA and BALPA for the maintenance guys the ALAE should all get around the table with the DTLR as well as reprisentatives of the cabin crew and the ground staff this way may be we can inhance security with out the empire building and petty regulations that seem to have sprung up over the years.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Top reply, A and C. Ludicrous and long-term unenforcable measures only undermine security. For instance, at Ltn, large numbers of flt crew have to park in a remote park, pass airside, walk across the airport, then go landside to crew in. If they are about to position with their baggage checked in, they are still airside for 10 minutes. Do they have their prohibited items in the suitcase confiscated, even though they are in hold baggage? What happened to common sense? I really miss the Swiss Army Knife I have carried in my flight bag for 25 years (same one, lovingly cared for, confiscated at BFS) that has rescued many a pax stuck in the lav, sorted out cabin defects, removed glass from tyres etc etc etc. Now I will have to use the fantastic big axe kindly supplied by Boeing. 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I've just been flying out of the Channel Islands for a couple of days. The security measures there seem to vary depending on who is working. For example, the cabin crew managed to take scissors, ice tongs and corkscrews airside for a couple of days, then had them all confiscated the next day. The response from security? To store them on board - wonder how they're supposed to get there to start with.
I have to say that one of the most interesting things I have seen confiscated from a pax was an electric toothbrush.
I have to say that one of the most interesting things I have seen confiscated from a pax was an electric toothbrush.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
The crazy thing is that most pilots carry the Swiss Army/Leatherman in the flight bag, which usually resides outboard of the seat. A potential killer would have to reach over me, and fumble in the bag for something he doesn't know for sure is there. In the name of security we have at a stroke removed perhaps the crew's only way to defend themselves and the aircraft. Except of course for Mr. Boeing's big axe.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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So. Tell me. What happens to all these nice, shiny, useful (indispensible), confiscated Ģ50-Ģ90 Leatherman tools now, then?
Someone at Group4/Securitas doing a handy little sideline in multi-tools at the car-boot sales perhaps?
Or maybe the traders within the duty free areas are in on a scam? Confiscate at the check-in and let the pax buy another one when through to duty-free side of customs? Nice little earner, eh?
As per usual, everyone is caught by a measure that will shortly be shown to have been completely ineffective. I would imagine that one reason why some people have stopped flying is not necessarily because of the perceived risk when airborne, but by how much they know they are going to be p!ssed-off once they get to the airport check-in.
Someone at Group4/Securitas doing a handy little sideline in multi-tools at the car-boot sales perhaps?
Or maybe the traders within the duty free areas are in on a scam? Confiscate at the check-in and let the pax buy another one when through to duty-free side of customs? Nice little earner, eh?
As per usual, everyone is caught by a measure that will shortly be shown to have been completely ineffective. I would imagine that one reason why some people have stopped flying is not necessarily because of the perceived risk when airborne, but by how much they know they are going to be p!ssed-off once they get to the airport check-in.
Still behind the curtain
Join Date: Jan 2001
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A couple of things to remember is that in most commercial aircraft there are several overhead bins that contain oxygen bottles and first aid kits. They are open to the public, except for a sticker saying "For Crew Use Only." Some don't even have that. Well, what do you think is contained in the first aid kit? Certainly not only bandages, but also cutting tools.
An oxygen bottle is a pretty good slammer on the head. In the back galley area there are two fire extinquishers which would put out a pretty good stream of CO2 if aimed at a FA, or a passenger, at least to initially stun them.
In the toilet area, pardon me, but if you flush there is enough blue gook to gather up in a plastic cup and throw in the face of a FA. The disinfectant in that stuff is engough for a person to go blind for some time. The same thing about the cologne in business class. Get a cup of that and throw it in someones face. Steel coat hangers in the up-front wardrobe.
I could go on, but I don't want to violate some possible security.
Nail clipper? Bull sh*t!
An oxygen bottle is a pretty good slammer on the head. In the back galley area there are two fire extinquishers which would put out a pretty good stream of CO2 if aimed at a FA, or a passenger, at least to initially stun them.
In the toilet area, pardon me, but if you flush there is enough blue gook to gather up in a plastic cup and throw in the face of a FA. The disinfectant in that stuff is engough for a person to go blind for some time. The same thing about the cologne in business class. Get a cup of that and throw it in someones face. Steel coat hangers in the up-front wardrobe.
I could go on, but I don't want to violate some possible security.
Nail clipper? Bull sh*t!
Join Date: Apr 2001
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MPH,
quite agree. As a freighter crew, what possible scenario are they expecting?
The F/E's on our L188's use a Leatherman to lower the dripsticks when refueling.
As everybody says, there are far more 'useful' items on board already.
Ever had a Loadie make you a cuppa? That'll effectively disable a person for a few minutes!
I can understand the need to tell PAX, they will not carry on all the items mentioned, but the crews?!
quite agree. As a freighter crew, what possible scenario are they expecting?
The F/E's on our L188's use a Leatherman to lower the dripsticks when refueling.
As everybody says, there are far more 'useful' items on board already.
Ever had a Loadie make you a cuppa? That'll effectively disable a person for a few minutes!
I can understand the need to tell PAX, they will not carry on all the items mentioned, but the crews?!
Join Date: Dec 2000
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This all really is a complete load of horsesh!t with a cherry on the top.
The effort needs to go into ground security to ensure that everything airside is squeaky-clean and that there is NO opportunity for explosives to find their way aboard. These guys are not going to bring firearms onboard, so why have a firearm either in the cockpit or in the possession of a security officer, for them to snatch?
They may bring some form of sharp-edged or pointed tool onboard. If not, then they can probably find something else in the cabin to use.
MORE LIKELY is that they will be well trained in unarmed combat (if their leaders are going to spend several grand on them for pilot training, then they may as well chuck in a spot of judo/karate/kung-fu or whatever).
By removing all sharp and pointy objects from the cabin and/or preventing pax from bringing ANYTHING onboard that could conceivably be used as a weapon, we are, in a stroke, also removing any means of defence that either the flight crew, cabin crew or pax have of defending themselves and wresting control back from the hijackers.
In the aftermath of the tragedy in the U.S.A. the general travelling public are now all too well aware, that if their aircraft is hi-jacked, there is the distinct possibility that the aircraft itself will be used as a weapon against another target. If they sit back and do nothing they will probably die. They are now all aware that they will have to act and help the flight crew. As I said in a post elsewhere, if anyone moves towards the flight deck and doesn't make the immediate left turn into the bogs, they will jumped on by 20 blokes in the front four rows.
That and judicious use of the pilots arms and left boot should sort things out.
A word of caution to the pax though. After landing, they must remember the words "I only hit him once, officer" or else they may be up before the Beak charged with infringing the hi-jacker's human rights
The effort needs to go into ground security to ensure that everything airside is squeaky-clean and that there is NO opportunity for explosives to find their way aboard. These guys are not going to bring firearms onboard, so why have a firearm either in the cockpit or in the possession of a security officer, for them to snatch?
They may bring some form of sharp-edged or pointed tool onboard. If not, then they can probably find something else in the cabin to use.
MORE LIKELY is that they will be well trained in unarmed combat (if their leaders are going to spend several grand on them for pilot training, then they may as well chuck in a spot of judo/karate/kung-fu or whatever).
By removing all sharp and pointy objects from the cabin and/or preventing pax from bringing ANYTHING onboard that could conceivably be used as a weapon, we are, in a stroke, also removing any means of defence that either the flight crew, cabin crew or pax have of defending themselves and wresting control back from the hijackers.
In the aftermath of the tragedy in the U.S.A. the general travelling public are now all too well aware, that if their aircraft is hi-jacked, there is the distinct possibility that the aircraft itself will be used as a weapon against another target. If they sit back and do nothing they will probably die. They are now all aware that they will have to act and help the flight crew. As I said in a post elsewhere, if anyone moves towards the flight deck and doesn't make the immediate left turn into the bogs, they will jumped on by 20 blokes in the front four rows.
That and judicious use of the pilots arms and left boot should sort things out.
A word of caution to the pax though. After landing, they must remember the words "I only hit him once, officer" or else they may be up before the Beak charged with infringing the hi-jacker's human rights
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Hi,
Well I can only partly agree with all pax jumping someone who's walking toward or opening the cockpit door.
You really don't want to know how many of those poor unexpecting pax, most of whom have never even traveled on an aircraft, walk into the cockpit thinking it is the Toilet.
I fly the 737-NG and its very hard to mistake the cockpit for the toilet. EASY.....COCKPIT=FRONT DOOR, TOILET=SIDE DOOR. Or do those pax expect us to fly the aircraft from the TOILET;-)
Well i just wanted to say that jumping every pax would be abit hard. And i must add, we allways have the jumpseat down, in that case the Terrotist would have to be a gifted circsus performer to climb over that with his Gillete razor in one hand and his Koran/How to fly a 737 in 1 easy lesson handbook, in the other;-)
By the way I also have my rather LARGE armyknife in my bag. 4 out of 5 flights the took it through the X-ray without even asking about the knife. And the fifth time it worked just to tell them to make it checked bagage and then hand it back to me, so i can put it in my bag and take it to the aircraft. As you can imagine they left it at that and handed me back the knife.
I have to add I fly from Berlin SXF and I take it they are not as strict as for example Schiphol or Heathrow.
Just wanted to add it sucks when they take our beloved pocketknifes. You don't want to know how much I save my company in maintanance and repares with it;-)
Greetings
A Fellow Aviator
Well I can only partly agree with all pax jumping someone who's walking toward or opening the cockpit door.
You really don't want to know how many of those poor unexpecting pax, most of whom have never even traveled on an aircraft, walk into the cockpit thinking it is the Toilet.
I fly the 737-NG and its very hard to mistake the cockpit for the toilet. EASY.....COCKPIT=FRONT DOOR, TOILET=SIDE DOOR. Or do those pax expect us to fly the aircraft from the TOILET;-)
Well i just wanted to say that jumping every pax would be abit hard. And i must add, we allways have the jumpseat down, in that case the Terrotist would have to be a gifted circsus performer to climb over that with his Gillete razor in one hand and his Koran/How to fly a 737 in 1 easy lesson handbook, in the other;-)
By the way I also have my rather LARGE armyknife in my bag. 4 out of 5 flights the took it through the X-ray without even asking about the knife. And the fifth time it worked just to tell them to make it checked bagage and then hand it back to me, so i can put it in my bag and take it to the aircraft. As you can imagine they left it at that and handed me back the knife.
I have to add I fly from Berlin SXF and I take it they are not as strict as for example Schiphol or Heathrow.
Just wanted to add it sucks when they take our beloved pocketknifes. You don't want to know how much I save my company in maintanance and repares with it;-)
Greetings
A Fellow Aviator
ex-Tanker
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The whole point of checking Crew baggage was to make sure that no one had deposited a Bomb in one (it has happened)and not to check for weapons (of defence?).
I once had an ex RAF dinghy knife (it was nicely attatched in its holster to the inside of the crewbag) taken away at Boston with the comment "If you are a pilot, why do you carry that?". Well the expression "go figure" hadnīt been invented, so I told them it was for sharpening pencils...
I once had an ex RAF dinghy knife (it was nicely attatched in its holster to the inside of the crewbag) taken away at Boston with the comment "If you are a pilot, why do you carry that?". Well the expression "go figure" hadnīt been invented, so I told them it was for sharpening pencils...
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As far as I am aware carrying Leatherman's has never been allowed, especially the larger version. Razor blades on their own have also never been allowed, scissors with blades over a certain length are not allowed (although that is up to the discretion of the security officer). Surely it is best that nothing that can be used as a weapon should not be allowed on board? Although I agree that confiscating these from the pilot is a bit of an over reaction!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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OK Madge,
So no pax/crew can get on board with any of the following:
Pens, pencils, lighters, rulers (plotters), metal watch straps, bottles, drinking glasses, eye glasses, ear rings, all piercings in fact, high heeled shoes, mobile phones with extendable aerials, hand baggage with extendable handles, umbrellas, walking sticks, artificial limbs, magazines with staples, torches,............oh my God, it's got to be time to retire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: FlapsOne ]
So no pax/crew can get on board with any of the following:
Pens, pencils, lighters, rulers (plotters), metal watch straps, bottles, drinking glasses, eye glasses, ear rings, all piercings in fact, high heeled shoes, mobile phones with extendable aerials, hand baggage with extendable handles, umbrellas, walking sticks, artificial limbs, magazines with staples, torches,............oh my God, it's got to be time to retire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: FlapsOne ]
