ryanair pilots do pushbacks

[DoNotFeed]

and then

Is the fellow put through another screening process when entering the plane?

[coopervane]

Loose Rivets

In reply to your comment......where does the luckless pilot stand in the pouring rain?

Well he stands where his engineers normally stand while he is sipping his tea and pointing at his watch!

Maybe he could invest in a waterproof coat from his big wedge???

Bless his cotton socks!

Coop & been there Bear

[Pilot Pete]

Originally Posted by SIDSTAR

Ref Item 7 - sufficient qualified personnel mustg be on board to evacuate passengers if required.

Well if they don't have minimum crew on board when boarding is taking place they are breaking the law, unless they have some agreement from the relevant authority.

PP

[captjns]

Originally Posted by Pilot Pete

Well if they don't have minimum crew on board when boarding is taking place they are breaking the law, unless they have some agreement from the relevant authority.PP

With 3 F/A's on board, they can board up to 150 pax during the fueling process, that is if the 4th F/A is assisting the gate agent in the collection of boarding passes.

Again this applies only during boarding and deplaning. I'm sure crews will exercise proper judgment during inclement weather conditions.

[Dream Land]

How do pilots decide which one goes outside to monitor fueling, and which one helps clean out the seat pockets.

[FS-chick]

Originally Posted by Dream Land

How do pilots decide which one goes outside to monitor fueling, and which one helps clean out the seat pockets.

On a sunny day the capt. is outside monitoring, if it's raining or in case of $hitty weather FO does the job.

[PK-KAR]

Oh, new JAR procedures?
I thought they were trying to emulate another airline with a person's name and a similar logo (albeit different colours)... Adam Air...



PK-KKN being pushed by humans after HYD A failure where it then landed on the destination airport which doesn't have a towtruck...

Or was it an exercise of cost cutting for pushing back? Both LCCs with guys names, and similar kind of logo...



PK-KAR

[j_davey]

interesting that the despatcher or a ramp agent doesn`t put the headset on?

[spannersatcx]

Originally Posted by j_davey

interesting that the despatcher or a ramp agent doesn`t put the headset on?

That's because you don't have to, it has to be there, and connected up so that

"A two way communication shall be established and shall remain available by the aeroplane's intercommunication system or other suitable means between the ground crew supervising the refuelling and the qualified personnel on board the aeroplane".

If the crew need to talk then they either put the beacons on or sound the horn or whatever the SOP is for the operator.

This has been in force for longer than I can remember, it's nothing new at all.

[misterblue]

How to comply with the rule

You will need;
2 yoghurt cartons (empty)
1 length of string
1 open window
I think you can work out how to assemble the device yourselves.
Procedures
Emergency whilst refuelling
Either party pulls string hard
Lost Comms Procedure
String goes very slack - revert to voice procedures
It would appear that this system fully complies with the regulations and means that flight crew can remain on flight deck. Go on, give it a go!

[TURIN]

This may seem like a silly question but does this only apply to EU registered a/c and operators or just within the EU?

I only ask as several non EU reg a/c often never have flt deck occupied during refuelling whilst pax on board. Certainly in my experience only one operator ever asks to speak to the refuelling operative (eng) while fuelling continues.

So what gives? Is the Shell/BP chap required to don a headset? Does the engineer chap need to stop his routine or ad-hoc maintenance just to stand around with the refueller?

I am confused.

[Dream Land]

I believe it's an industry standard, just seems like common sense to me, as far as using the flight deck crew to do ground crew ops is totally bizarre, why would they swallow this?

[stadis450]

The general rule is that a responsible person, flight deck, engineer or handling agent should make themselves known to the refueller as the "overseer", whom the refueller can go to in case of any problems, many refuellers operate the switches through experiance while some airlines provide a switching policy which involes a small amount of training, the biggest problems tends to be tug drivers driving under the fuel vents while fuelling is in progress this is a big NO NO. The refeullers I've come across get well trained and continue to be re trained in all fuelling tasks. Some problems arise when pilots start to get involved in operating the fuel panel as many of them dont have a bloody clue on what does what, leave it to the professionals...........that would be the refuellers

[spannersatcx]

leave it to the professionals...........that would be the

Engineers and not the bowser drivers.

[JW411]

"Leave it to the professionals......that would be the refuellers"

You have obviously never been to Shannon. Most of them insist on one of the pilots setting up the refuel panel before they will start to pump fuel.

They have also been known to throw the red emergency switch on the refuel panel "just to see what it does"!

For the edification of those of you out there who don't know what it does, it shuts the APU down, kills all the electrics and leaves the entire aircraft in darkness.

[AVIONIQUE]

Perhaps if we are to keep our short turnrounds and maximise a/c utilisation but remain as safe as possible we can have an engineer attend each turnaround again.It seemed to be asking a lot of flight deck to prepare for the next sector/have a pee/carry out a walkround/brief all in twenty minutes.I have seen some REALLY swift walkrounds and some non existent ones(particulary in inclement weather).I have also seen some BIG defects missed.I think to have an engineer there to carry out a PDI who knows what to look for,is dressed for the weather,has rags/bulbs/tools/oils to hand and can oversee the fuelling is a sensible move back.We also enjoy a chat to the crew and bollocking heavy handed baggage handlers so we all win!

[CR-ASC]

Once again JAR OPS is a mess, for sure written by same lawyers without a clue regarding operation of an aincraft.
As a pilot, if I am required to be out of the aircraft while refueling (specially in an Airbus series where this is an automatic procedure) I do have less time to prepare my flight during a turnaround, but it looks that all the operations around an aircraft are very important just flying it is of no importance at all.
I cannot recal the myriad of signatures that I have to do before closing the doors all vey important pieces of useless paper.
I do not see where safety is improved by this procedure as per any evacuation procedure both pilots are supose to be in the cockpit when it starts, performing and confirming the required actions.
Soon we will have the pilots loading the aircraft as well because there might be same problem with what goes into the cargo hold.
After working all over the world and in same countries of the so called 3rd world I do find JAA a big flop.

[RAT 5]

Strikes me as a prelude to the classic cock-up waiting to happen. Everyone's arses has been covered; rules have been written: the inevitable happens. Rushed departure to keep on time, as per company philosophy. Rushed due to all the extranious duties that have been thrust upon the crews during an already pit-stop turn round. Something is missed; prang! = Pilot error. Everyone's hand are clean but for the stupid flight crew!

And so the circle turns!

[GGV]

CR-ASC these procedures are there for a reason. Just like SOPs and rules for licensing and medicals. There are methods for making an input if you think they are bad rules. Complaining about safety related rules is missing the point.

Now, before you get hot and bothered about that response, may I suggest that you look at the title of this thread: "Ryanair pilots do pushbacks". In reality Ryanair pilots have been required to do certain things by their management - not by the JAA, the IAA, etc. What seems to have happened is that the IAA no longer is turning a "blind eye" towards a necessary safety procedure that was ignored.

Now, Ryanair being Ryanair, every corner than can be cut, every job that can be eliminated, etc. will have been transferred to pilots, cabin crew, dispatchers, etc. And that is where the pressure will now come to bear.

RAT 5 gets closer to the real problem with his observation "Rushed departure to keep on time, as per company philosophy." Except that this is not the company philosophy. For it is written nowhere. Now you may say "but everybody knows it". But when the "tire hits the road" and something goes wrong it will be .... the pilot(s) who are in trouble .... because "but everybody knows it" does not count for getting you out of the merde.

Surely this is the problem of the moment in most Low Cost Carriers and some others too? Whose job is it to shout STOP? I'll wager that few Ryanair pilots are delaying their flights due to the lack of flight planning, eating, refuelling, etc. time. So where does this all come to roost: the authority? (nope, we set out the rules, the operator and the pilots have responsibility for conformance), the airline? (nope, we have excellent procedures and expect our pilots to obey them) ..... so then it is the pilot? (nope, err .... I can expalin ... is this not a bit unfair, you know what I have to do to stay out of trouble ... ).

Unfair!?!? Is that the word?

[LegsUpLucy]

It the most absurd request i have come across,particularly when we are uplifting a lot of fuel you can be standing outside for 20mins with only 5 mins to complete checks,briefs,clearances,loo,etc. where is the line going to be drawn its bloody ridiculous and the pilots get the blame for being late,lets get real!!!!
If everybody complies with this they are endangering the saftey of thier operation and comprimsing thier profession for sure!!!!