ryanair pilots do pushbacks

[con-pilot]

and where does the luckless pilot stand when it's hissing down with freezing rain?

Er, under the wing?

Or, better yet, cancel the blasted flight due to freezing rain and go to the bar.


Okay, on a serious note, anytime (in the corporate ops) when we were at a strange airport I aways mandated that someone supervised the refueling.

This came from from very serious fueling screw ups.

[madherb]

Originally Posted by con-pilot

Okay, on a serious note, anytime (in the corporate ops) when we were at a strange airport I aways mandated that someone supervised the refueling.

This came from from very serious fueling screw ups.

Maybe this is the crux of the matter - any comments from crews who have had a fuelling situation FUBAR which could have been prevented by a (long-suffering) airframe driver fastening his eagle eyes on the process? A certain 767 incident comes to mind...........

If on the other hand there have been very few incidents, and given that refuelling personnel are SUPPOSED to be trained properly, is this going to die another natural death?

[mutley320]

Refueling headset

I trust this procedure is only required if fueling while pax boarding.

[Rivet gun]

Originally Posted by mutley320

I trust this procedure is only required if fueling while pax boarding.

Yes, comes from Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 1.305, of course it includes any pax on board including boarding or disembarking.

[SIC]

This is great - just give me a damn blue coverall and let me check and fill oil hydralic fluid and tire pressure - if i am good at that then you can let me in on the secrets of cleaning up the cabin and offloading the baggage - soon after i am sure some rule will require i do the pushback myself - then a short step to makin me wash the aircraft on longer stops - and as soon as the whizz engineers figure out how to make the plane fly all by itself blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah... the transformation of pilot from white collar to blue collar labourer will be colmplete.

PS sure the flight schools will love this - now they can charge me another
20 000 euro for all the extra courses.

[tewkesbury]

Oh dear, when did you last see an engineer in overalls?

[moosp]

As Spanners has pointed out, this is nothing new, the requirement has been there for years.

Note the wording, "A two way communication shall be established and shall remain available..." This has been interpreted as meaning that you establish communications, then leave the headset available for the "responsible person" (in our case so called) to use if necessary.

I suggest that someone in management is trying to wind up the pilots by insisting that they stand there wearing the headset - there is no legal requirement. If management say there is, get a legal opinion organised by your union. (Oh, no union?)

[Faire d'income]

Page two before anyone identified the real issue.

Mutley pointed out that it only applies for refueling with Pax on board and this has always been the case everywhere in every company except guess who? And guess which regulator?

It is obvious the early posters here have only worked in one company which is very worrying.

Glad to see the safety shortcut has been sealed off.

[Globaliser]

ryanair pilots do pushbacks

Am I the only person who had mental images of fine upstanding FR pilots scrumming down around the nosewheel, ready to give the aircraft a good heave away from the gate?

[computer jockey]

Am I the only person who had mental images of fine upstanding FR pilots scrumming down around the nosewheel, ready to give the aircraft a good heave away from the gate?

And I thought it was another cost-cutting measure to avoid paying a tug!

[chiglet]

You pay for a Tug
watp,iktch

[HELL FIRE]

refueling

refueling can be done if there is a engineer at the a/c at the change over of crews otherwise it has to be the f/o or the cpt, and that goes for turnarounds as well,that might slow things down for them!!!!!!!!

[411A]

What the FR boys (and girls) need is...ah, well, a proper Flight Engineer.

[powdermonkey]

Why are the ramp agents not doing this role for you? I spend six months on the ramp during my ATPL's and often was required to stand there with the headsets on while the plane was being refuelled. I had no special training but all I was required to do was observe the upload and contact the flight deck if anything unusual happened, I didn't work for FR, but assumed that Ryanair ground crew would do the same job? Is the pilot supposed to verify the quantity of fuel uploaded? I have often stood there for a LONG time in the freezing rain, as fuelling can take for what seems to be forever, so I really don't think it is flight crew who should be standing out there when cockpit checks should be done instead. Am I missing something?

[tightcircuit]

Here is what JAR OPS say so you can all see it for yourselves;
SECTION 1 JAR-OPS 1 Subpart D
01.09.04 1-D-16 Amendment 7
Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 1.305
Refuelling/defuelling with passengers
embarking, on board or disembarking
(a) An operator must establish operational
procedures for re/defuelling with passengers
embarking, on board or disembarking to ensure the
following precautions are taken:
(1) One qualified person must remain at a
specified location during fuelling operations with
passengers on board. This qualified person must
be capable of handling emergency procedures
concerning fire protection and fire-fighting,
handling communications and initiating and
directing an evacuation;
(2) [A two-way communication shall be
established and shall remain available by the
aeroplane’s inter-communication system or other
suitable means between the ground crew
supervising the refuelling and the qualified
personnel on board the aeroplane;]
([3]) Crew, staff and passengers must be
warned that re/defuelling will take place;
([4]) ‘Fasten Seat Belts’ signs must be off;
([5]) ‘NO SMOKING’ signs must be on,
together with interior lighting to enable
emergency exits to be identified;
([6]) Passengers must be instructed to
unfasten their seat belts and refrain from
smoking;
([7]) Sufficient qualified personnel must be
on board and be prepared for an immediate
emergency evacuation;
([8]) If the presence of fuel vapour is
detected inside the aeroplane, or any other hazard
arises during re/defuelling, fuelling must be
stopped immediately;
([9]) The ground area beneath the exits
intended for emergency evacuation and slide
deployment areas must be kept clear; and
([10]) Provision is made for a safe and rapid
evacuation.
[Amdt. 7, 01.09.04]

[Mega]

How about the first flight of the day, for example.
Almost everywere you pass on the fuelnumbers long before you arrive to the aircraft and the a/c gets the fuel in some way. It can be empty,it can be cleaners or engineers onboard. Nobody gives a fxxx.
/M

[SIDSTAR]

Ref Item 7 - sufficient qualified personnel mustg be on board to evacuate passengers if required.

Will this stop the LCC's from sending a stewardess to the gate to help with boarding? Will they need to have a full complelent of cabin crew on board -ie one per fifty installed seats ?

[Waggon rut]

Some places require a pilot to operate the fuel switches under the wing. So how does the new rules work with that.!

[stiffnuts]

Originally Posted by Loose rivets

Curiouser and curiouser.....and where does the luckless pilot stand when it's hissing down with freezing rain?

Try becoming a luckless Engineer & you will find out!!

[Dream Land]

How much extra salary do they make for this duty?