Alternatives to redundancies ?
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Alternatives to redundancies ?
On the bmi redundancies thread I posted a reply about an alternate strategy to making people redundant www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=016269
Essentially it involves everyone sharing the misery by accepting either pay cuts or unpaid leave to keep people in work.
Any other suggestions as alternatives to putting pilots / cabin crew and engineers out of work ?
Essentially it involves everyone sharing the misery by accepting either pay cuts or unpaid leave to keep people in work.
Any other suggestions as alternatives to putting pilots / cabin crew and engineers out of work ?
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Pauldegearup, May I just say how refreshing it is to see people trying to solve the problems as oppose to just passing them on.
I just hope for all the people concerned that there are a few more people like you with some influence on the situation.
I just hope for all the people concerned that there are a few more people like you with some influence on the situation.
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Le Loup, I regret that my influence doesnt even extend to what will be on the table for dinner this evening ! My suggestion was simply a plea, having read the bmi thread, for people to pull together and try to retain jobs, even if it means spreading the pain, rather than the few suffering.
The other guys redundancy tomorrow may be yours next week; 50% of what you are making now is better than the paltry £20 a wek the Jobseekers allowance is !
If pilots, engineers and cabin crew cant join forces now and help each other out, I'm not certain that I want anything to do with aviation anymore. Reading the bmi thread I can name 2 or 3 guys who actually have the plot - Max Pete, Arkroyal - but a huge number seem t be so well balanced with a chip on each shoulder that it saddens me.
From personal experience, the bmi management are cheats, liars,ineffective and utter buffoons; someone from the ranks has to come forward with a solution. Listen to MAx Pete;he ALWAYS speaks sense and has the greater good at heart.
The other guys redundancy tomorrow may be yours next week; 50% of what you are making now is better than the paltry £20 a wek the Jobseekers allowance is !
If pilots, engineers and cabin crew cant join forces now and help each other out, I'm not certain that I want anything to do with aviation anymore. Reading the bmi thread I can name 2 or 3 guys who actually have the plot - Max Pete, Arkroyal - but a huge number seem t be so well balanced with a chip on each shoulder that it saddens me.
From personal experience, the bmi management are cheats, liars,ineffective and utter buffoons; someone from the ranks has to come forward with a solution. Listen to MAx Pete;he ALWAYS speaks sense and has the greater good at heart.
Uncle Pete
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PaulDeGearup
Many thanks for those kind words.
Without Skippy and his motely crew and a crewing department that did not squander resources we may have avoided all this heartache!!
MP
Many thanks for those kind words.
Without Skippy and his motely crew and a crewing department that did not squander resources we may have avoided all this heartache!!
MP
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Whats this worldbizfromhome advert on here? Shes infected the BA layoffs thread as well. Where's a moderator when you need one? 
The post is history, thanks for the heads up.
[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
Her posting priviliges are also history.
[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
The post is history, thanks for the heads up.
[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
Her posting priviliges are also history.
[ 28 October 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
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Pauldegearup, As my question wasn't answered on the other thread, do you know how the pilot community has responded to the 50/50.
I am with you with the 80%! I think it would be alot more of an incentive for people further up the bmi seniority list.
I believe the engineers there haven't been offered anything like part-time etc..
I am with you with the 80%! I think it would be alot more of an incentive for people further up the bmi seniority list.
I believe the engineers there haven't been offered anything like part-time etc..
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I do wonder if the answer is for the more senior pilots approaching retirement consider taking their pension at a reduced rate and continuing employment on a part time(3weeks on, 3 off) basis. More time for gardening (ppruning)
Consideration could also be given by those continuing employment after they have retired from one company on a full pension withdrawing from the market. This applies particularly to ex BA pilots retiring on a full pension, then going into the many start-ups such as easyJet, Go and Ryanair. They hardly need the money and while they might enjoy the challenge of a new environment it should not be at the expense of people with families and mortgages to pay.
(I am one of the first)
Consideration could also be given by those continuing employment after they have retired from one company on a full pension withdrawing from the market. This applies particularly to ex BA pilots retiring on a full pension, then going into the many start-ups such as easyJet, Go and Ryanair. They hardly need the money and while they might enjoy the challenge of a new environment it should not be at the expense of people with families and mortgages to pay.
(I am one of the first)
Uncle Pete
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Sky9
Perhaps if the company was a little bit more forthcoming about what was on offer on an individual basis, like saying how much you would actually take home from any one of these offers, folk would be in a better position to make rational decisions about their future.
As I mentioned on another thread I'm waiting for essential information before I can make a structured decision.
MP
Perhaps if the company was a little bit more forthcoming about what was on offer on an individual basis, like saying how much you would actually take home from any one of these offers, folk would be in a better position to make rational decisions about their future.
As I mentioned on another thread I'm waiting for essential information before I can make a structured decision.
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Le Loup.
The 80/20% deal is a cracking idea but it seems that crewing feel they could not cope with it. (other airlines, namely SAS seem to do OK). However given their present malaise a 220/100 deal might be beyond Donington Halls capability.
It is worthy of note to the Union sceptics that all the initiatives are union driven and apart from a 'notice of intent' I am still awaiting meaningful communication from my full time line manager.
In this instance the Union has done us proud.
This PPrune thing is quite addictive!!!!
The 80/20% deal is a cracking idea but it seems that crewing feel they could not cope with it. (other airlines, namely SAS seem to do OK). However given their present malaise a 220/100 deal might be beyond Donington Halls capability.
It is worthy of note to the Union sceptics that all the initiatives are union driven and apart from a 'notice of intent' I am still awaiting meaningful communication from my full time line manager.
In this instance the Union has done us proud.
This PPrune thing is quite addictive!!!!
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Stan, A twist on the job sharing is the variable hours option. UsAir cabin crew does this and many other airlines cabin crew unions are looking at this as a way to minimise furloughs or redundancies. This could easily be applied to any union group paid by the hour. Their system is such that one group can fly up to 95 hours hard time, one group 75 hours and one group 55 hours. You bid by seniority which group you wish to be placed in. For those close to retirement or for mothers with small children the low hours option is coveted and allows their junior colleagues to keep their jobs.
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The problem with reduced hours or part tiem work is that employers don't want to pay for unnecessary sim checks / line checks etc.
As a smaller ansett is about to find out (aerlingus possibly the same over the next few months), pilot numbers will be reduced to the absolute minimum to keep costs down. Job sharing only adds to overheads.
sad but true.
As a smaller ansett is about to find out (aerlingus possibly the same over the next few months), pilot numbers will be reduced to the absolute minimum to keep costs down. Job sharing only adds to overheads.
sad but true.
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The saddest thing is the fact that capital servicing costs never seem to be reduced: BMI have declared the inevitable redundancies in their workforce (as it is fashionable to do this at the moment), but I understand that several brand new Fokker 100's are shortly to be delivered. They are to be parked at East Midlands and mothballed. The savings made by all the redundancies will be a mere pinprick in the cost of servicing (i.e. paying the interest on) the capital tied up in these brand new jets, but then the bean counters approve servicing assets as opposed to paying out money to staff that are temporarily not required. I suppose the saddest thing is that a pilots, who are very highly specialised can only get a job where they can earn what they are worth in a very few organisations. A beancounter can do this in any organisation employing people in the country.
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Pilch matey,
I think you must mean EMB 145s as the Fokker production line terminated (bmi LOVE that word) years ago.
I agree, but we all have to find options to keep folks in work, current and paying their mortgages. It simply isnt sensible to go off with a knee jerk reaction and remove all of the guys at the bottom of anyones, bmi,BA,KLMUK, seniority list. A few days or weeks in discussion and consultation could se the 55+ pilots taking early retirement if the package doesnt compromise them and the younger ( and cheaper) folks satying on at the bottom.
My only hope in posting the thread was that someone in management might read it and take a moment or two to consider the benefits, both to the individuals and the company.
Times are hard and will get harder; we need to stick together. If we dont only we will suffer.
I think you must mean EMB 145s as the Fokker production line terminated (bmi LOVE that word) years ago.
I agree, but we all have to find options to keep folks in work, current and paying their mortgages. It simply isnt sensible to go off with a knee jerk reaction and remove all of the guys at the bottom of anyones, bmi,BA,KLMUK, seniority list. A few days or weeks in discussion and consultation could se the 55+ pilots taking early retirement if the package doesnt compromise them and the younger ( and cheaper) folks satying on at the bottom.
My only hope in posting the thread was that someone in management might read it and take a moment or two to consider the benefits, both to the individuals and the company.
Times are hard and will get harder; we need to stick together. If we dont only we will suffer.
