Russian Airbus crash
The Reverend
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The spokesman for the Emergency Situations Ministry said investigators were looking into "many" possible versions for the crash.
"The landing gear may have caught fire while landing, igniting the rest of the plane. Or there was a short circuit while the plane was still in the air, which disabled the brakes," the spokesman told AFP.
"The landing gear may have caught fire while landing, igniting the rest of the plane. Or there was a short circuit while the plane was still in the air, which disabled the brakes," the spokesman told AFP.
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SevenSeas, that's precisely what I meant by the BBC s
t stiring - they're trying to agitate the viewers, as always.
Just look at how they covered the 1st anniversary of 7/7. ITV, Sky and most other TV News covered who was killed, which VIP attended, and looked at the fact. The BBC decided to have a field day, and cover every detail, cross the T's, dot the i's, and dedicate the entire news bullitin to what happened.
Yes it was a pretty major thing, but I thought the BBC handled it pretty tastelessly, and I bet this is what they'll do with this story - as they've already started showing unmarked archieve footage. Yes, they are allowed to show what happens, but if it isn't part of the crash, it should be clearly maked as library footage.
Again, sorry about the language, but BBC news really is taking the p at the moment.
t stiring - they're trying to agitate the viewers, as always.Just look at how they covered the 1st anniversary of 7/7. ITV, Sky and most other TV News covered who was killed, which VIP attended, and looked at the fact. The BBC decided to have a field day, and cover every detail, cross the T's, dot the i's, and dedicate the entire news bullitin to what happened.
Yes it was a pretty major thing, but I thought the BBC handled it pretty tastelessly, and I bet this is what they'll do with this story - as they've already started showing unmarked archieve footage. Yes, they are allowed to show what happens, but if it isn't part of the crash, it should be clearly maked as library footage.
Again, sorry about the language, but BBC news really is taking the p
at the moment.
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Irkutsk
Airfield Data: Fire Category 8
Emergency Services: AVBL
Navigational Aids: AVBL
Airfield Restrictions: Nil
Noise Restrictions: Nil
Aircraft Maintenance: Minor repairs at aircraft repair base
Refuelling: AVBL without limitation
Runway 1: Heading 115/295, 3,165m (10,383ft), 72/R/C/X/T, ICAO Cat. I, Rwy 115, ILS 115, Lighting: HIALS CatI:PAPI, Restrictions: Rwy 12 threshold is displaced by 400m towards ARP, Rwy 295, ILS 295, Lighting: HIALS CatI:PAPI, Restrictions: Rwy 30 usable length is 2765m
Surrounded by mountains?
Airfield Data: Fire Category 8
Emergency Services: AVBL
Navigational Aids: AVBL
Airfield Restrictions: Nil
Noise Restrictions: Nil
Aircraft Maintenance: Minor repairs at aircraft repair base
Refuelling: AVBL without limitation
Runway 1: Heading 115/295, 3,165m (10,383ft), 72/R/C/X/T, ICAO Cat. I, Rwy 115, ILS 115, Lighting: HIALS CatI:PAPI, Restrictions: Rwy 12 threshold is displaced by 400m towards ARP, Rwy 295, ILS 295, Lighting: HIALS CatI:PAPI, Restrictions: Rwy 30 usable length is 2765m
Surrounded by mountains?
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My sincerest sympathies to those involved. A sad day indeed. 
I can`t help but wonder why things like this happen but as we all know, there but for the grace of God...go you and I.
Would any current or former A310, A300-600 crew care to share a `suspicion` as to a possible contributing factor in this incident?
Based on a previous accident in RDS (the causes of which are now known) , do you think the operating crew `might` have NOT armed the spoilers during their Approach Checks, which might explain an overrun on a wet runway in this particular circumstance?
I am not trying to rush to judgement on this but as a former A310/A300 pilot it wouldn`t surprise me if it played a part in this.
I can`t help but wonder why things like this happen but as we all know, there but for the grace of God...go you and I.
Would any current or former A310, A300-600 crew care to share a `suspicion` as to a possible contributing factor in this incident?
Based on a previous accident in RDS (the causes of which are now known) , do you think the operating crew `might` have NOT armed the spoilers during their Approach Checks, which might explain an overrun on a wet runway in this particular circumstance?
I am not trying to rush to judgement on this but as a former A310/A300 pilot it wouldn`t surprise me if it played a part in this.
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Just for info
"This was a former Aeroflot(delvered as F-OGYP on:9.08.1996) plane c/n:442 delivered to S7 on 18.06.2004"
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
"This was a former Aeroflot(delvered as F-OGYP on:9.08.1996) plane c/n:442 delivered to S7 on 18.06.2004"
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
Last edited by The AvgasDinosaur; 10th Jul 2006 at 20:13.
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May be speculation but...
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...2?OpenDocument
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...2?OpenDocument
Entering Irkutsk Russia in Google Earth will take you there. The civil airport is to the east of the city (there's a military field to the north). The 310 would probably have been landing on R30, i.e. from the east, and veered to the right. In the Google Earth image there's an aircraft on finals for R12 and its shadow will give some idea of scale in relation to buildings.
I measure the runway at 3210 metres so it would appear to be suitable for the A-310............ (Etops)
AGA : Q)UIII/QMTCM/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5216N10424E005
FROM 06/06/29 15:00 TO 06/10/20 23:59 EST
E)RWY 30 THR DISPLACED 340M TOWARDS ARP. DAY AND NIGHT MARKING.
DISPLACED THR MARKED BY WING BAR LGT AND RWY END LGT, APPROACH
LGT NIL, RWY TDZ LGT LOCATED AT DIST 295M FM DISPLACED THR.
SEGMENT FM DISPLACED THR TO 150M FM RWY 30 EXTREMITY AVBL AS
SWY AS CWY FOR RWY 12, AFTER LDG ON RWY 12 ACFT PERMITTED VACATE
RWY ALONG TWY 2.
DECLARED DIST:
RWY 12 TORA 2825M, TODA 3015M, ASDA 3015M, LDA 2425M.
RWY 30 TORA 2615M, TODA 3015M, ASDA 3015M, LDA 2425M.
RWY 30 LINE-UP POSITION LOCATED AT DIST 150M FM RWY 30 EXTREMITY,
MARKED BY PRISM OF RED AND WHITE COLOUR IN DAY-TIME AND THIRD RWY
EDGE LGT AT NIGHT. EQPT HGT UPTO 5M OPR ON SEGMENT FM RWY 30
EXTREMITY TO 400M TOWARDS LMM DUE TO DIGGING WORKS.
-------------
A3232/06
COM : Q)UIII/QICAS/I/NBO/A/000/999/5216N10424E005
FROM 06/06/29 15:00 TO 06/10/20 23:59 EST
E)DUE TO DIGGING WIP: RWY 30 ILS GP, RWY 12 LLZ U/S.
RWY 30 APCH: DIST AND CROSSING HGT FROM DISPLACED THR
FAF 14.64KM (850)M, LOM 4.02KM (245)M, LMM 1.39KM (96)M, RWY 30
EXTREMITY 0.34KM(35)M, 2NDB APCH AND VOR/DME APCH AVBL.
RWY 12 LDG MINIMA AVBL WITHOUT CHANGES,
RWY 30 VIS LDG MNM INCREASED BY 1000M.
-------------
A3563/06 [n/a at time of accident]
COM : Q)UIII/QILAS/I/NBO/A/000/999/5216N10424E005
FROM 06/07/09 00:00 TO 06/08/09 00:00 EST
E)RWY 30 ILS LLZ U/S.
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Originally Posted by Willie Everlearn
Would any current or former A310, A300-600 crew care to share a `suspicion` as to a possible contributing factor in this incident?
Based on a previous accident in RDS (the causes of which are now known) , do you think the operating crew `might` have NOT armed the spoilers during their Approach Checks, which might explain an overrun on a wet runway in this particular circumstance?
Based on a previous accident in RDS (the causes of which are now known) , do you think the operating crew `might` have NOT armed the spoilers during their Approach Checks, which might explain an overrun on a wet runway in this particular circumstance?
The 310 "floates" a lot for every knot of extra speed, much more than A300.
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Lots of pictures here: http://www.planes.wz.cz/html/novinky.html
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I see that the crash was at 7:44 local time (am I suppose)...does anyone know the conversion to Z time so I can figure out which METAR was the appropriate one?
Planes do land long sometimes, especially if adding a few knots to approach speed...influenced by wind and wx.
I think perhaps thinking back to the over run at CYYZ (toronto) by the A340 might (MIGHT) be something to consider.
Again, we all know the A340 is different than the A310. And this is just a thought.
jon
Planes do land long sometimes, especially if adding a few knots to approach speed...influenced by wind and wx.
I think perhaps thinking back to the over run at CYYZ (toronto) by the A340 might (MIGHT) be something to consider.
Again, we all know the A340 is different than the A310. And this is just a thought.
jon
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Originally Posted by hetfield
Spoilers will deploye even if not armed when reverse thrust is selected. With spoilers armed they deploy with at least one thrust lever at idle.
The 310 "floates" a lot for every knot of extra speed, much more than A300.
The 310 "floates" a lot for every knot of extra speed, much more than A300.
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A sad day. My deepest condolence to the victims families. CNN video coverage of the crash http://youtube.com/watch?v=tDx50wfj-...russia%20crash
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thanks howling wind
I will guess the wx is/was:
UIII 082300Z 28005MPS 3500 -SHRA OVC006CB 11/09 Q1002 NOSIG RMK QBB190 QFE707/0943 30290250
UIII 082200Z 28004MPS 250V310 3500 -SHRA OVC005CB 11/10 Q1002 NOSIG RMK QBB170 QFE707/0943 30290250
another poster indicated the plane had one ton of fuel...this would be quite low if the total amount on board...I don't know the fuel burn of the A310 but would guess 2000lbs would only be about15-25 minutes in cruise.
I hope the poster will indicate the reason he/she thinks there was 1 ton of fuel on board.
does anyone know how much composite structure is in the A310 fuselage? It might interest some to know that composites, burning with fuel can make a dangerous to health (long term) smoke/fumes and firefighters are now aware of such.
I will guess the wx is/was:
UIII 082300Z 28005MPS 3500 -SHRA OVC006CB 11/09 Q1002 NOSIG RMK QBB190 QFE707/0943 30290250
UIII 082200Z 28004MPS 250V310 3500 -SHRA OVC005CB 11/10 Q1002 NOSIG RMK QBB170 QFE707/0943 30290250
another poster indicated the plane had one ton of fuel...this would be quite low if the total amount on board...I don't know the fuel burn of the A310 but would guess 2000lbs would only be about15-25 minutes in cruise.
I hope the poster will indicate the reason he/she thinks there was 1 ton of fuel on board.
does anyone know how much composite structure is in the A310 fuselage? It might interest some to know that composites, burning with fuel can make a dangerous to health (long term) smoke/fumes and firefighters are now aware of such.
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There is some more information in english on the Sibir Website:
http://bort778.info/en.
Beside of other things the names of the crew, a passenger list (in russian) and some information about foreigners on board.
What a year for the russian aviation.
With regards,
Stubenfliege
http://bort778.info/en.
Beside of other things the names of the crew, a passenger list (in russian) and some information about foreigners on board.
What a year for the russian aviation.
With regards,
Stubenfliege
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from the reports I've now read (media), I can only guess that the plane hydroplaned on a wet runway, with possible braking problems.
we in the aviation community have seen too many over runs into structures or terrain that is not conduciving to survival.
American Airlines MD80 Little Rock, Arkansas...over ran into non frangible lighting stantions.
Air France A340 over ran at CYYZ (toronto) into a ravine, though all survived plane was demolished.
Southwest 737NG at Chicago Midway, over ran killing a young boy.
airports need to be surrounded by nothing but flat land or EMAS over runs.
And we as pilots must hold in our reserve spots of tricks of the trade an emergency firewall power go-around even after touchdown...while this might not always work, we need to have it in our minds.
It would seem that all of the above crashes could have "gone around" based on principles of:
land in first third of runway
failure of any stopping mechanism to properly work and speed still above 100 knots.
planes are better at flying than stopping.
jon
we in the aviation community have seen too many over runs into structures or terrain that is not conduciving to survival.
American Airlines MD80 Little Rock, Arkansas...over ran into non frangible lighting stantions.
Air France A340 over ran at CYYZ (toronto) into a ravine, though all survived plane was demolished.
Southwest 737NG at Chicago Midway, over ran killing a young boy.
airports need to be surrounded by nothing but flat land or EMAS over runs.
And we as pilots must hold in our reserve spots of tricks of the trade an emergency firewall power go-around even after touchdown...while this might not always work, we need to have it in our minds.
It would seem that all of the above crashes could have "gone around" based on principles of:
land in first third of runway
failure of any stopping mechanism to properly work and speed still above 100 knots.
planes are better at flying than stopping.
jon
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The initial statement from the manufacturer:
http://www.airbus.com/crisis/index.html
Condolences to the families of those that have been lost in this accident.
http://www.airbus.com/crisis/index.html
Condolences to the families of those that have been lost in this accident.