South Korea to test pilots in English language

[planeenglish]

Originally Posted by skol

If competent english is required how come Air France and Montreal ATC speak french? Is it something to with the language police in Quebec maybe?

ICAO document 9835 2.5 states,

2.5.1 In Annex 10, it is stipulated that radiotelephony communications shall be conducted eitherin the language on the ground or in English, and that English shallbe made available when pilots are unable to use the language of the station on the ground.

Regardless, each pilot and ATCO must demonstrate English language proficiency as of March 5, 2008. (See table 2-1 of abovementioned Manual on the Implementation of ICAO Language Proficiency Requirements.)

Best,
PE

[2U5A]

How much does the test cost??

Here in Canada it has been annouced that until March 2008 the test for English proficiency will be free! (Very un-Canadian!) Those of you who have taken your English test, where there any costs involved?

[MorningGlory]

Well I never! Does this actually mean that soon, when I ask for 'Gear Down', the other chap won't look at me with a vacant stare?

[Few Cloudy]

Where is the Racism?

What is racist about speaking English, which pilots and ATC have to do anyway, to a better standard?

Many different races live in England and in USA too for that matter and English is the official language in quite a few counties with other mother tongues.

If French had been adopted as the language of the skies (which historically it well could have been) then we would be using that.

White, male, oppressing minorities... what a lot of cobblers Metro Man!

FC.

[planeenglish]

Found my sun through the few cloud(y)s

Hi Few Cloudy,

Check your pm.

ICAO explained why English was chosen as the language for the new standards at the symposium in Montreal HQ Sept. 2004.

Many mumbled French and Spanish were a better choice. It is said that it is not a cultural decision but a practical one. I believe there is mention in the manual itself. If not, there are transcripts of the speeches made at the Montreal symposium.

Regarding free testing: No, here where I am I have not heard of any free testing. I personally have gone to aero clubs and local training airports and have done free or reduced rate testing after doing free presentations for all who will listen to help spread the word. Surprisingly, many have refused due they say they are afraid!


Best to all,

PE

[GreyEagle]

CBT test in China

Originally Posted by sky330

I just has been checked in China.
CBT based test:
- Select the correct word; graphic description
- Select the correct word; oral description
- Add correct word in sentence
- Answer context question; after text reading
- Answer context question; after listening to a text
- Find correct answer to a standard aviation clearance; text based
- Find correct answer to a standard aviation clearance given orally
- Answer orally to a clearance given orally. Computer records the answer via a mike and it is graded later on by the instructor.

This taken between two and three hours. Level is easy but non-trivial.
IMHO, if you failed, you better stay away from some american airport!
If your grade is just above pass, you should be confident with all standard clearance, and understand most other r/t.

A nice step in the correct direction.

2-3 hours seems a long time for a CBT test of English. Was this a placement test, an achievement test or a proficiency test?

[chandlers dad]

Originally Posted by Clipper7

Quebec French is not French - as any person from both Quebec and France will tell you ! This could explain many things...

As someone who has flown in both Quebec and France recently, how about we all speak English? Just because its the offical language of Aviation might have something to do with it, along with safety?

[planeenglish]

more ramblings...

Originally Posted by GreyEagle

2-3 hours seems a long time for a CBT test of English. Was this a placement test, an achievement test or a proficiency test?

I agree. This is also a hot topic among linguists and operational experts as well. Seems the average is about 1 hour 45 minutes. This particular type of test is called "high stakes" therefore the language needs to be adequately tested. The standards require that a preparation course of sample test be offered so the candidate will have ample time and occasion to prepare.
This is a proficiency test. It can not be an achievement test as you say, probably sarcastically so, but in order for language people to have enough opportunity to elicit language it is necessary to put the candidate in certain situations to do so.
For example, a rough outline of a pilot's English proficiency test on the market is: a warm-up (who are you, what do you do etc. where plain language[PL] is 100% of the language required), followed by a flight briefing (plain language with technical vocabulary), normal flight communications (standard phraseology-R/T), abnormal situation (R/T +PL), urgency or emergency situation (PL+R/T), de-briefing (PL).
For ATC it would be a number of flights maybe one abnormal and one urgency/emergency and then a report to their superior. Whereupon it would be followed by a "conversation" afterwards (or before depending on the test structure) regarding the ATCs particular experience. A sample question is "what is a time sot and who imposes them" "what instances could make a A/C lose its time slot..." and so on.
You need time to do all of this. It can not be all CBT and fulfill the standard requirements set out by ICAO and subsequent authorities.
Also, this thread is about the South Korean testing scheme but other countries have already chosen their schemata. In these last two weeks in Singapore the Australian/Asian territories met for a symposium regarding these standards and ICAO biggies were present. Seems many countries are already deciding on what they'll do for their pilots and ATCOs.
My concern is for private pilots (PPL). Most every test I have seen is geared towards air transport pilots (ATPL). PPL are pilots too. It is costly to develop a test of this magnitude and timely. It takes time to validate a test. Who will test the Sunday flier? He will not be able to understand certain situations given on these tests.
IAOPA has tried to push for changing the standards to certain airspace but failed. Even still they have pledged to keep trying to moderate them. Look here.
Some say this can be handled in the Simulator. I say yes only if the person who is assessing the language is himself/herself trained to do so and at a level of proficiency that is at an expert level. Then I still believe a short "conversation" in the debriefing is mandatory.
Comments?
Best,
PE

[manincrz2937]

What do you want?

Guys.....

Don't expect too much from Korean goverment or ailrline company.
Do you guys really expect something from it?

If they consider it seriously, they should expect stop more than half of entire flights. Phew...No way man.

Already there is a rumor in the air.

CASA and old school guys will make way to get avoid this in someway.

They will put young, fresh guys who took flight school in US or OZ first. then they will make data bank. so rest of old school guys can memorize questions as many as they can. Same old trick like they always depend on small ATC note beside of thier clib board in the cockpit.

It won't change anything. Just another deception.
Sad but will be True.

[MrBernoulli]

manincrz2937

Not enjoying your time in Korea then?