Flight International article on stress at LCC's.
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After I wrote the post above, I had another look at the post by Backwater further up the page. I totally agree with what he is saying.
According to the well known book, "Stress and Error in Aviation", at least 21%of accidents list Fatigue as a cause. With the advent of the LCC, the number must rise as more pilots are reaching FTL limits, and the pilot shortage will bite those airlines that already have a high turnover like easyJet and Ryanair as the remaining pilots are asked to work even harder.
Have a look at American Flight 1420 at Little Rock, , the MK Airlines 747crash, Korean 801 in Guam, Crossair in Zurich, Air Algerie in Coventry and the list goes on.
easyJet lost 159 pilots in the last year, how can they continue with high fuel costs and this type of turnover, among Cabin Crew as well, and still remain competitive????
According to the well known book, "Stress and Error in Aviation", at least 21%of accidents list Fatigue as a cause. With the advent of the LCC, the number must rise as more pilots are reaching FTL limits, and the pilot shortage will bite those airlines that already have a high turnover like easyJet and Ryanair as the remaining pilots are asked to work even harder.
Have a look at American Flight 1420 at Little Rock, , the MK Airlines 747crash, Korean 801 in Guam, Crossair in Zurich, Air Algerie in Coventry and the list goes on.
easyJet lost 159 pilots in the last year, how can they continue with high fuel costs and this type of turnover, among Cabin Crew as well, and still remain competitive????
easyJet lost 159 pilots in the last year, how can they continue with high fuel costs and this type of turnover, among Cabin Crew as well, and still remain competitive????
The cost of paying training captains, and line-training pay is more than offset by the student paying the cash and taking all the risk.
Cabin Crew are a slightly different story, however you will find that outside of the normal legacy carriers, the staff retention rate has always been abysmal.
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Originally Posted by Monarch Man
Simple, the vast majority of joiners at Easy are F/O's, again the vast majority are via the TRSS scheme..obviously with this the TRSS person takes on all the debt (plus a little more than it actually costs)
Regards, Nick
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Monarch man is quite correct when he suggests the majority of joiners are via the TRSS scheme, or Type Rating Self Sponsorship which is a deal where they pay for a type rating to join easyJet.
This scheme was OK when we had 2000 CV's after 9/11 but is a little passe now as qualified candidates dry up and contract pilots are being used to shore up the flights, in addition to severe subchartering. Of course "easy-lag" will apply here and it will be maybe three years before they discontinue it!!!!
"The cost of paying training captains, and line-training pay is more than offset by the student paying the cash and taking all the risk"
I'm not sure if Monarch man is suggesting that the low pay for cadets and TRSS is to offset Training Captains pay, in which I totally disagree. Firstly, we must be the hardest working Trainers in history bearing in mind the volume of new-joiners, upgrades and cadets we have, plus training to the Airbus. Our TC increment is less than several competing airlines, including Virgin and BA where they do not train nearly as much as we do. Try 4 sectors each day with 25 minute turnarounds with a 200 hour dadet!!
In any event, the 90% pay for 6 months for new Captains and FO's, the awful first 6 months allowances for cadets and other savings they make do not get lavished on the Trainers, but on management bonuses.
This scheme was OK when we had 2000 CV's after 9/11 but is a little passe now as qualified candidates dry up and contract pilots are being used to shore up the flights, in addition to severe subchartering. Of course "easy-lag" will apply here and it will be maybe three years before they discontinue it!!!!
"The cost of paying training captains, and line-training pay is more than offset by the student paying the cash and taking all the risk"
I'm not sure if Monarch man is suggesting that the low pay for cadets and TRSS is to offset Training Captains pay, in which I totally disagree. Firstly, we must be the hardest working Trainers in history bearing in mind the volume of new-joiners, upgrades and cadets we have, plus training to the Airbus. Our TC increment is less than several competing airlines, including Virgin and BA where they do not train nearly as much as we do. Try 4 sectors each day with 25 minute turnarounds with a 200 hour dadet!!
In any event, the 90% pay for 6 months for new Captains and FO's, the awful first 6 months allowances for cadets and other savings they make do not get lavished on the Trainers, but on management bonuses.
Last edited by Colonel Klink; 11th Jun 2006 at 00:03.
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Is it hypocritical that the Flight article in June reports:-
"Flightcrew will soon be presented with a fatigue risk management manual, 'to help them identify risks they can manage themselves' ".
When the editorial of the 31/01 - 06/02 issue states:-
" The NTSB has been trying to raise the issue of fatigue for years. Yet it is so lacking in faith in the FAA's willingness to do anything to correct the situation, despite the flood of new scientific evidence on the effect of tiredness that, in the Kirksville report, it recommends pilots should be given lessons in "fatigue countermeasures". That is recognise that you must be seriously tired at this point in a duty day, and make due allowances for it.
The situation is preposterous: it is like the NTSB's road transport department advising those drivers who insist on getting drunk that they should recognise their inebriation and manage its effects." ?
Or was the reporter of the June article not aware that the subject had been examined in January and a (very creditable) opinion already expressed on behalf of the organ?
"Flightcrew will soon be presented with a fatigue risk management manual, 'to help them identify risks they can manage themselves' ".
When the editorial of the 31/01 - 06/02 issue states:-
" The NTSB has been trying to raise the issue of fatigue for years. Yet it is so lacking in faith in the FAA's willingness to do anything to correct the situation, despite the flood of new scientific evidence on the effect of tiredness that, in the Kirksville report, it recommends pilots should be given lessons in "fatigue countermeasures". That is recognise that you must be seriously tired at this point in a duty day, and make due allowances for it.
The situation is preposterous: it is like the NTSB's road transport department advising those drivers who insist on getting drunk that they should recognise their inebriation and manage its effects." ?
Or was the reporter of the June article not aware that the subject had been examined in January and a (very creditable) opinion already expressed on behalf of the organ?
I'm not sure if Monarch man is suggesting that the low pay for cadets and TRSS is to offset Training Captains pay, in which I totally disagree. Firstly, we must be the hardest working Trainers in history bearing in mind the volume of new-joiners, upgrades and cadets we have, plus training to the Airbus. Our TC increment is less than several competing airlines, including Virgin and BA where they do not train nearly as much as we do. Try 4 sectors each day with 25 minute turnarounds with a 200 hour cadet!!
I was suggesting that it is far cheaper for the bean counters to Pay..(and subsequently nearly work to death) training captains good money..because they know that the TRSS student is costing them next to nothing, and don't forget they are lined trained on a revenue generating flights
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Dr Faustus
Easyjet have been contemptuous of this issue from the very beginning, I joined when they had 5 a/c and it was a problem even then.
Here is a exerpt from a 2002 thread:-
This from today's The Times......
August 09, 2002
EasyJet 'is stretched to limit', airline boss admits
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
EUROPE’S biggest budget airline has admitted that its pilots and cabin crew are under severe pressure because the airline does not have enough trained staff to cope with its record-breaking growth.
EasyJet plans to cancel some flights from next week to try to recover some control over its schedule.
Letters to pilots from Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen, the operations director, which have been leaked to The Times, describe how easyJet is struggling with “severe disruption”.
“It is very clear that the current situation cannot continue,” Mr Hahn-Petersen wrote on Wednesday.
“Right now it feels soul destroying and the bottom line is we can now conclude that the 60 per cent growth coupled with four new crew bases and lots of new routes has stretched us significantly.
“The combination of volume and complexity in the summer schedule has stretched us to the limit. I recognise that we need to scale back slightly to recreate stability.”
Mr Hahn-Petersen said he understood “the frustrations and concerns of all crew”.
What has changed??????????????
Easyjet have been contemptuous of this issue from the very beginning, I joined when they had 5 a/c and it was a problem even then.
Here is a exerpt from a 2002 thread:-
This from today's The Times......
August 09, 2002
EasyJet 'is stretched to limit', airline boss admits
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
EUROPE’S biggest budget airline has admitted that its pilots and cabin crew are under severe pressure because the airline does not have enough trained staff to cope with its record-breaking growth.
EasyJet plans to cancel some flights from next week to try to recover some control over its schedule.
Letters to pilots from Vilhelm Hahn-Petersen, the operations director, which have been leaked to The Times, describe how easyJet is struggling with “severe disruption”.
“It is very clear that the current situation cannot continue,” Mr Hahn-Petersen wrote on Wednesday.
“Right now it feels soul destroying and the bottom line is we can now conclude that the 60 per cent growth coupled with four new crew bases and lots of new routes has stretched us significantly.
“The combination of volume and complexity in the summer schedule has stretched us to the limit. I recognise that we need to scale back slightly to recreate stability.”
Mr Hahn-Petersen said he understood “the frustrations and concerns of all crew”.
What has changed??????????????
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Colonel K
Yes, probably with a large wad along with the others? Anyway the point is not what happened to him but what happened to the rosters.
Note only 4 months after the above debacle!.............
From "The Independent" website:
"EasyJet to pay £10m bonus to 38 managers
By Michael Harrison
11 December 2002
A group of senior easyJet executives are to receive an early Christmas present after the airline completed a key stage in the integration of its low-cost rival Go four months ahead of schedule.
The switch to a single air operator's licence, which took place on Monday, has triggered the first tranche of a £10m bonus payment for 38 top managers from the two airlines.
The executives will each receive a year's salary in shares in return for hitting the target early.
And look what happened to him as a result!!! Banished back from where he came!!
Note only 4 months after the above debacle!.............
From "The Independent" website:
"EasyJet to pay £10m bonus to 38 managers
By Michael Harrison
11 December 2002
A group of senior easyJet executives are to receive an early Christmas present after the airline completed a key stage in the integration of its low-cost rival Go four months ahead of schedule.
The switch to a single air operator's licence, which took place on Monday, has triggered the first tranche of a £10m bonus payment for 38 top managers from the two airlines.
The executives will each receive a year's salary in shares in return for hitting the target early.
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Back to the beginning: scientists to assess if fatigue & tiredenss really exist. We all know the answer to that, but will they. However, it is no official, becasue the boffins have discovered a chemical reason why, that a meditarrean style siesta after lunch is good for you. (D.T last week). Well that's alright then. Human guinea pigs have been trialling it for decades and have all the data they require.
If the chief medical officer flew on the jump seat for a months roster, of both LoCo's & longhaul, there would be no doubt about the outcome. It would be quick & cheap and very objective. Simple!
In 3 airlines I have challenged my boss, and the head of rostering, to work to my roster but in the cosy office. No-one took up the challenge. Shame on them, pontificating on something they have no idea about.
Why not BALPA challenge the CAA to such a trial. Forget about all the medical studies and computers, just put the good old human to the test and then they will understand what we are talking about.
If the chief medical officer flew on the jump seat for a months roster, of both LoCo's & longhaul, there would be no doubt about the outcome. It would be quick & cheap and very objective. Simple!
In 3 airlines I have challenged my boss, and the head of rostering, to work to my roster but in the cosy office. No-one took up the challenge. Shame on them, pontificating on something they have no idea about.
Why not BALPA challenge the CAA to such a trial. Forget about all the medical studies and computers, just put the good old human to the test and then they will understand what we are talking about.
Heard a classic yesterday......
Andy Harrison, to his credit, has been spending time on the front line flying as cabin crew.
Apparently recently during briefing, he was looking at the four sector, 25min turn around schedule for the day and politley enquired of the senior..."Errr...and when is our break??"
Andy Harrison, to his credit, has been spending time on the front line flying as cabin crew.
Apparently recently during briefing, he was looking at the four sector, 25min turn around schedule for the day and politley enquired of the senior..."Errr...and when is our break??"
Paxing All Over The World
For those of us on the outside looking in, who is Andy Harrison? Whoever he is, it sounds like one small step for crew, even if not yet a giant leap for management kind. 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz
Andy Harrison, to his credit, has been spending time on the front line flying as cabin crew.
Well if we can´t beat them why not join them? Let´s all become management pilots and fly 1-2 days per week (errrr 1-2 days per month is more likely) while we fill our pockets with share options during the remaining ´working´ days! And if the sh!t hits the fan: who cares, just ask your buddy at Flight International to write a nice sympathetic story! Bravo!
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For the unitiated, Andy Harrison is the new CEO of easyJet. I personally presented him with a list of the pilots who had left easyJet since 2002 in the hope that it might galvanize him into action, but as always with "those people", the only time anything gets done is when it costs them money or they can't crew a flight.
Andy Harrison may be a breath of fresh air to some. It would not be hard to improve on his predecessor, who caused friction with every segment of the workforce he managed for which Andy is now paying the price. However, enough time has gone by and not enough has changed. Why is he parading himself as Cabin Crew to better understand the conditions they face whilst working a gruelling 12 hour day? After all, he pays his managers to do that. Or maybe he has finally woken up to the fact that there is not ONE of them that can be trusted and he is better off doing it himself!!
Andy Harrison may be a breath of fresh air to some. It would not be hard to improve on his predecessor, who caused friction with every segment of the workforce he managed for which Andy is now paying the price. However, enough time has gone by and not enough has changed. Why is he parading himself as Cabin Crew to better understand the conditions they face whilst working a gruelling 12 hour day? After all, he pays his managers to do that. Or maybe he has finally woken up to the fact that there is not ONE of them that can be trusted and he is better off doing it himself!!
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6 to 8 hours sleep;
An hour checking Email, reading this forum and paying bills, getting rid of the odd virus;
Well that only leaves 1.25 hours to manage my fatigue, or play with my daughter, talk to the wife/girlfriend, cut the grass, maybe eat a little and go for a short jog or watch the golf on telly so I am sure it will be short article!!!!!
An hour checking Email, reading this forum and paying bills, getting rid of the odd virus;
Well that only leaves 1.25 hours to manage my fatigue, or play with my daughter, talk to the wife/girlfriend, cut the grass, maybe eat a little and go for a short jog or watch the golf on telly so I am sure it will be short article!!!!!
6 to 8 hours sleep?? You lucky b*stard.