++++ LUFTHANSA: 96 % VOTED PRO STRIKE ++++
Guest
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Few cloudy -
Hit the search engine on the subject and find out the reasoning behind the requested pay rise and then judge if it is reasonable. You can't just look at the percentage without knowing all the facts. Judge for yourself...
I for one think it is more than reasonable, hopefully it will be trend setting...
Good luck y'all...
[This message has been edited by KADS (edited 10 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by KADS (edited 10 May 2001).]
Hit the search engine on the subject and find out the reasoning behind the requested pay rise and then judge if it is reasonable. You can't just look at the percentage without knowing all the facts. Judge for yourself...
I for one think it is more than reasonable, hopefully it will be trend setting...
Good luck y'all...
[This message has been edited by KADS (edited 10 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by KADS (edited 10 May 2001).]
Guest
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few cloudy:
SR is still above LH paywise.
SR management screwed up - pilot costs aren´t the cause for their unprofitability.
LH-Pilots agreed to an average 28% paycut in 1992 to save the airline.
We´re still not back on 1991/92 levels.
DLH made 1 Billion Euro profit last year. Years before were similar.
typos...
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 11 May 2001).]
SR is still above LH paywise.
SR management screwed up - pilot costs aren´t the cause for their unprofitability.
LH-Pilots agreed to an average 28% paycut in 1992 to save the airline.
We´re still not back on 1991/92 levels.
DLH made 1 Billion Euro profit last year. Years before were similar.
typos...
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 11 May 2001).]
Guest
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It went very good.
Germany was quiet.
Ca. 1000 flights didn´t take place.
LH floated rumours that str*kefront is falling apart, more crews than expected flew etc. - Just propaganda.
Even some CFG management-pilots didn´t fly and got kicked out of the office (we´ll see for how long).
VC press conference at 1100LT.
Thanks for the support.
Germany was quiet.
Ca. 1000 flights didn´t take place.
LH floated rumours that str*kefront is falling apart, more crews than expected flew etc. - Just propaganda.
Even some CFG management-pilots didn´t fly and got kicked out of the office (we´ll see for how long).
VC press conference at 1100LT.
Thanks for the support.
Guest
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Charly,
I guess you and your collegues are thrilled about what's going on .. i would kindly ask you to stop and think about your collegues on the ground for a few minutes and what their thoughts about this are ..
This whole issue is cutting a huge gap between Ground prsonell and Flight Crews (your CAs geting a rise too?)
We've been at the same point just 1 year ago at Lauda...
MB
Powerplant Engineer
I guess you and your collegues are thrilled about what's going on .. i would kindly ask you to stop and think about your collegues on the ground for a few minutes and what their thoughts about this are ..
This whole issue is cutting a huge gap between Ground prsonell and Flight Crews (your CAs geting a rise too?)
We've been at the same point just 1 year ago at Lauda...
MB
Powerplant Engineer
Guest
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We´re aware!
The situation is management´s fault, not our´s or your´s. They didn´t read the signs - just like Niki.
They let this thing run out of control and now they have to deal with it.
The CAs and groundpers are represented by Ver.Di. (the largest union in the world!)
Groundpers has a different contract from CAs - why I don´t know (rumour has it, that many groundpers think crews are overpaid and underworked anyway) - big UNION POLITICS I guess.
So now Ver.Di is scared sh@tless, that there members will clobber them for the last contract. (And they get the head-negotiator suddenly appointed chief-of-personell at LSG!!)
Besides that, let´s just cut this teutonic envy and jealousy, please.
The situation is management´s fault, not our´s or your´s. They didn´t read the signs - just like Niki.
They let this thing run out of control and now they have to deal with it.
The CAs and groundpers are represented by Ver.Di. (the largest union in the world!)
Groundpers has a different contract from CAs - why I don´t know (rumour has it, that many groundpers think crews are overpaid and underworked anyway) - big UNION POLITICS I guess.
So now Ver.Di is scared sh@tless, that there members will clobber them for the last contract. (And they get the head-negotiator suddenly appointed chief-of-personell at LSG!!)
Besides that, let´s just cut this teutonic envy and jealousy, please.
Guest
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Hi Meatbomber!
CAs are demonstrating solidarity.
Ground Personell is utilized by management against us. Pretty sad thing.
But we know, that we are right, and our wages are not a democratical topic.
By the way: The way pilots are treated at Lauda is unsafe!
Greetings
Charly
CAs are demonstrating solidarity.
Ground Personell is utilized by management against us. Pretty sad thing.
But we know, that we are right, and our wages are not a democratical topic.
By the way: The way pilots are treated at Lauda is unsafe!
Greetings
Charly
Guest
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If it is of any interest to LH pilots, on the day of last week's strike, I operated a scheduled service to a Gernman airport. I was asked by my airline's customer staff if I could carry commercial pax on the flight deck. I curteously declined.
She then got v upset and said that there was chaos in the terminal with our own airline having overbooked pax, despite knowing about the strike in advance. I declined again.
She then got even more upset and said that all our other airline's Capts had been carrying commencial pax. I declined for a thrid time. What other Captains do is of marginal interest to me but given the recent change to our Flight Crew Orders, the carriage of commercial pax on the flight deck can be construed to be 'verboten'.
I did however tell her that if there were any airline staff, I would be happy to cary them which is indeed what I did.
But, it's working! Don't give up!
She then got v upset and said that there was chaos in the terminal with our own airline having overbooked pax, despite knowing about the strike in advance. I declined again.
She then got even more upset and said that all our other airline's Capts had been carrying commencial pax. I declined for a thrid time. What other Captains do is of marginal interest to me but given the recent change to our Flight Crew Orders, the carriage of commercial pax on the flight deck can be construed to be 'verboten'.
I did however tell her that if there were any airline staff, I would be happy to cary them which is indeed what I did.
But, it's working! Don't give up!
Guest
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The caterers work for LSG/Skychefs who happen to have a new chief of personnel - the head of the negotiating commitee for Ver.di (the union), who managed to work out a whopping 3,5% on a 14 month contract...(as you´ve read further up)
Don´t get on anybody´s case, please, if you can.- Most of those people are fully aware, that we are NOT endangering their jobs, but are instead 100% p@ssed at their union (if they are members at all!).
If anything "Joe-regular" is just somewhat confused be management and union propaganda.
A few people are leaving "anti-pilots" notes in the cockpits, but the majority is behind us - They just don´t speak up!
Please just work with them as you always would.
Sorry I couldn´t pay for the beers;-) Beer without additives is much better anyway.
We know most pilots are looking how we do, and we´re surely doing our best.
Gotta be patient now.
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 26 May 2001).]
Don´t get on anybody´s case, please, if you can.- Most of those people are fully aware, that we are NOT endangering their jobs, but are instead 100% p@ssed at their union (if they are members at all!).
If anything "Joe-regular" is just somewhat confused be management and union propaganda.
A few people are leaving "anti-pilots" notes in the cockpits, but the majority is behind us - They just don´t speak up!
Please just work with them as you always would.
Sorry I couldn´t pay for the beers;-) Beer without additives is much better anyway.
We know most pilots are looking how we do, and we´re surely doing our best.
Gotta be patient now.
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 26 May 2001).]
Guest
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Recently was sat around the table listening to how marketing/ finance dept. thought it was wonderful that we were flying Lufthansa pax hoping that we would convert one or two.....wonderful until it was then pointed out that the shoe might be on the other foot soon.....
Keep going guys - we're with you.
Keep going guys - we're with you.
Guest
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So Wonderbusdriver tell me what will happen if Mr. Genscher the arbitra(i)tor (- maybe concerned about the development of his own shares in the company) will propose something like 17 %. Can you still say "no" ???
Further I believe your union-folks do not perform so well when it comes to pr for their issue. Checked their webpage recently, not much out there. Would be nice and maybe better to understand for stupid journos and normal people if there would be some info (straight and simple in the wording). Specially about the historic development of this dispute which dates back (-if my memory serves well) into the early 90's ?!
And: little hint/tip: why don't they show the salary increase for Lufthansa's top management over the last "fat" years - compared to others and yours? Didn't they get any...???
Cheers
screwjack
Further I believe your union-folks do not perform so well when it comes to pr for their issue. Checked their webpage recently, not much out there. Would be nice and maybe better to understand for stupid journos and normal people if there would be some info (straight and simple in the wording). Specially about the historic development of this dispute which dates back (-if my memory serves well) into the early 90's ?!
And: little hint/tip: why don't they show the salary increase for Lufthansa's top management over the last "fat" years - compared to others and yours? Didn't they get any...???
Cheers
screwjack
Guest
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-"...Can you still say "no" ???"
Yes!
DLH can say no - very unlikely to happen.
The pilots´committee can say no - remotely possible.
The DLH-VC-pilots can vote "NO" (less than 50% voting "YES") on the proposal - we´ll have to see...
Could all start again after a "NO".
- "Further I believe your union-folks do not perform so well when it comes to pr for their issue."
This has been the subject of much internal discussion. Don´t want to get into details.
All I have to say is, it´s a very small organization compared to other unions.
- "Checked their webpage recently, not much out there. Would be nice and maybe better to understand for stupid journos and normal people if there would be some info (straight and simple in the wording).
See answer above.
"Specially about the historic development of this dispute which dates back (-if my memory serves well) into the early 90's ?!"
They have some charts, but they´re in German.
I had tried to explain them in a post a few weeks back:
http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/d...ssecharts.html
I had some ideas myself about press releases in english etc., but I´m not on the negotiating committee.
"And: little hint/tip: why don't they show the salary increase for Lufthansa's top management over the last "fat" years - compared to others and yours? Didn't they get any...???"
"But that´s not our style is it?!"
Actually info pertaining to that, was in the weekly "Focus" last week.
They got some nice increases, but aren´t being paid "world-class" either.
Since I´m not the speaker for VC, I´ll try to hold back my personal comments a bit.
Maybe I can give you more analysis and insight from the center of things, after this is over.
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 28 May 2001).]
Yes!
DLH can say no - very unlikely to happen.
The pilots´committee can say no - remotely possible.
The DLH-VC-pilots can vote "NO" (less than 50% voting "YES") on the proposal - we´ll have to see...
Could all start again after a "NO".
- "Further I believe your union-folks do not perform so well when it comes to pr for their issue."
This has been the subject of much internal discussion. Don´t want to get into details.
All I have to say is, it´s a very small organization compared to other unions.
- "Checked their webpage recently, not much out there. Would be nice and maybe better to understand for stupid journos and normal people if there would be some info (straight and simple in the wording).
See answer above.
"Specially about the historic development of this dispute which dates back (-if my memory serves well) into the early 90's ?!"
They have some charts, but they´re in German.
I had tried to explain them in a post a few weeks back:
http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/d...ssecharts.html
I had some ideas myself about press releases in english etc., but I´m not on the negotiating committee.
"And: little hint/tip: why don't they show the salary increase for Lufthansa's top management over the last "fat" years - compared to others and yours? Didn't they get any...???"
"But that´s not our style is it?!"
Actually info pertaining to that, was in the weekly "Focus" last week.
They got some nice increases, but aren´t being paid "world-class" either.
Since I´m not the speaker for VC, I´ll try to hold back my personal comments a bit.
Maybe I can give you more analysis and insight from the center of things, after this is over.
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 28 May 2001).]