Industrial action ..... unfortunately .
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flowman,
Thanks for the update! I understand that other ACC's intentions at the moment maybe somewhat 'fluid' - and so plans are difficult to finalise. This mornings AIM from yourselves does at least ensure ALL operators know of the impending action
http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/chmi...m&aim=00083180
radar, zed & Colleagues
Yes, I know you'll be working your hardest both pre, and post action - hence I believe industries continued support (operational staff anyhow.....know that feeling??....lol)
One question - This action will cause severe delays (accepted). This generally involves news agencies becoming involved with the story at all levels, national, local etc. For yourselves, this news will possibly be in many different countries. What PR is the union fronting for both press releases and public knowledge etc?
My half warning, and fear for your action is that your managements PR and Press sections will be far more geared up, and efficient than your unions. The general public will be massively inconvinienced on friday, and across the weekend no doubt as the aftermath 'catchup' continues. Excellent PR from your union is needed so as NOT to completely alienate people. Your troubles with your management must be both strongly and expertly presented otherwise you will simply be made to look like a bunch of overpaid troublemakers by management PR. Please ensure that there are VERY proactive channels on Friday through which your plight is properly presented to multi-national media.
Good luck
30W
Thanks for the update! I understand that other ACC's intentions at the moment maybe somewhat 'fluid' - and so plans are difficult to finalise. This mornings AIM from yourselves does at least ensure ALL operators know of the impending action
http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/chmi...m&aim=00083180
radar, zed & Colleagues
Yes, I know you'll be working your hardest both pre, and post action - hence I believe industries continued support (operational staff anyhow.....know that feeling??....lol)
One question - This action will cause severe delays (accepted). This generally involves news agencies becoming involved with the story at all levels, national, local etc. For yourselves, this news will possibly be in many different countries. What PR is the union fronting for both press releases and public knowledge etc?
My half warning, and fear for your action is that your managements PR and Press sections will be far more geared up, and efficient than your unions. The general public will be massively inconvinienced on friday, and across the weekend no doubt as the aftermath 'catchup' continues. Excellent PR from your union is needed so as NOT to completely alienate people. Your troubles with your management must be both strongly and expertly presented otherwise you will simply be made to look like a bunch of overpaid troublemakers by management PR. Please ensure that there are VERY proactive channels on Friday through which your plight is properly presented to multi-national media.
Good luck
30W
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Here and there or somewhere in between
Age: 63
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Long way off
Girls, I appear to have caused you some irritation, but for the wrong reasons. Time for corrective action.
Believe it or not - I am NOT, NEVER have been, or likely to be an employee of Eurocontrol at any level.My Eurocontrol connection is a cuctomer - my employer pays route charges and we use your services. I have visited Brussels and Maastricht centres. Every night when in MST, i drank with Eurocontrollers, ( what marvellous titles some had on their business cards), Perhaps Lon More you were one of them if you used the airport bar in the late 80's
Hope this has cleared up the mistaken identity and no one has received a punch on the nose, and you are all big enough to call the suspect and tell him/her they were mistakenly maligned when it was some ----------- (fill in as you feel) from outside
Lon More
Correctly you say I didn't know about the cessation of training, how could I? It was kep in house, excellent move. I would like to see a similar move this time, e.g. the unfufliied management promises, they must be recorded. They must have come about as trades, i.e. you give 'x'and management gives 'y'. Unfortunately, you gave, but did not collect. How about yo uwithdraw these concessions until management makes good its commitments. That way everything stays within the walls and no adverse publicity gets to us common folk.
Zed 3
You may have received less in your pocket, I did not say that. I said you had not had your basic salary cut, that does not mean you didn't have allowances 'adjusted', and y usay your pension contribution were increased. I hope the pension fund is administered by in independant body and can only be used for your old age. Too many of us have been victims of the company spending the fund on useless things such as management bonuses, etc.
Tin-man,
I see you like name calling, and not a very original choice in my opinion. I have an Irish engineer who can't say his 'h's, so, with a little imagination I will call you 'Tick-Man'.
Continuing your management discussion. I quite agree- I have been promoted to the level of my own incompetence (feel better now?) But one has to stop somewhere and the fourth ring and extra cash make it all bearable. I also agree it is rathe rpompous to put ranks on forums - I could have used Úpgraded F/O. But, I am not too original either.
I take it you have all the qualities for upper management and all at the age of 14, but nobody has noticed you on the bottm of the ladder
P.S. I don't play golf eithe. Rather sad isn't it.
Seriously, to all you sky marshals - Keep up the good work, keeping us all apart in the air.
Believe it or not - I am NOT, NEVER have been, or likely to be an employee of Eurocontrol at any level.My Eurocontrol connection is a cuctomer - my employer pays route charges and we use your services. I have visited Brussels and Maastricht centres. Every night when in MST, i drank with Eurocontrollers, ( what marvellous titles some had on their business cards), Perhaps Lon More you were one of them if you used the airport bar in the late 80's
Hope this has cleared up the mistaken identity and no one has received a punch on the nose, and you are all big enough to call the suspect and tell him/her they were mistakenly maligned when it was some ----------- (fill in as you feel) from outside
Lon More
Correctly you say I didn't know about the cessation of training, how could I? It was kep in house, excellent move. I would like to see a similar move this time, e.g. the unfufliied management promises, they must be recorded. They must have come about as trades, i.e. you give 'x'and management gives 'y'. Unfortunately, you gave, but did not collect. How about yo uwithdraw these concessions until management makes good its commitments. That way everything stays within the walls and no adverse publicity gets to us common folk.
Zed 3
You may have received less in your pocket, I did not say that. I said you had not had your basic salary cut, that does not mean you didn't have allowances 'adjusted', and y usay your pension contribution were increased. I hope the pension fund is administered by in independant body and can only be used for your old age. Too many of us have been victims of the company spending the fund on useless things such as management bonuses, etc.
Tin-man,
I see you like name calling, and not a very original choice in my opinion. I have an Irish engineer who can't say his 'h's, so, with a little imagination I will call you 'Tick-Man'.
Continuing your management discussion. I quite agree- I have been promoted to the level of my own incompetence (feel better now?) But one has to stop somewhere and the fourth ring and extra cash make it all bearable. I also agree it is rathe rpompous to put ranks on forums - I could have used Úpgraded F/O. But, I am not too original either.
I take it you have all the qualities for upper management and all at the age of 14, but nobody has noticed you on the bottm of the ladder
P.S. I don't play golf eithe. Rather sad isn't it.
Seriously, to all you sky marshals - Keep up the good work, keeping us all apart in the air.
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
O'n'G my apologies for leaping down your throat originally Your post however seemed to indicate insider knowledge.
Yes, I did use the Airport Inn in the 1980s and knew a lot of the Rosie crews; I didn't have a business card though. I believe some people went so far as to create their own airline - just to get a jump-seat ride
This is a situation which has been developing over a number of years and until now has been kept in house,
The training stop was proposed again. Unfortunately management has declared anything other than a strike to be illegal - another attempt at intimidation.
On the subject of trades, management attitude has always been, "If you do X, we will give Y". Unfortunately as soon as the staff's side of the bargain wass fullfilled, management moved the goal-posts and created new demands.
Depending on the way you look at it, the basic salary has been cut. To ensure equality of salaries at establishments throughout the member states a percentage correction was made. This has been decreased for Maastricht. Ergo, an effective decrease in salary. Pensions are unfortunately administered by Eurocontrol and are also decreasing. We now have the equivalent of the old airline "A" and "B" scales.
Too much money is expended on management jollies such as "away-days" Now if they could have an "Away-year" .....
The "golfer" tag was a bit cheap. However it refers to a small clique within the organisation ( and they know who they are ) which seems to have replaced the Masons in an attempt to feather their own nests.
Yes, I did use the Airport Inn in the 1980s and knew a lot of the Rosie crews; I didn't have a business card though. I believe some people went so far as to create their own airline - just to get a jump-seat ride
This is a situation which has been developing over a number of years and until now has been kept in house,
The training stop was proposed again. Unfortunately management has declared anything other than a strike to be illegal - another attempt at intimidation.
On the subject of trades, management attitude has always been, "If you do X, we will give Y". Unfortunately as soon as the staff's side of the bargain wass fullfilled, management moved the goal-posts and created new demands.
Depending on the way you look at it, the basic salary has been cut. To ensure equality of salaries at establishments throughout the member states a percentage correction was made. This has been decreased for Maastricht. Ergo, an effective decrease in salary. Pensions are unfortunately administered by Eurocontrol and are also decreasing. We now have the equivalent of the old airline "A" and "B" scales.
Too much money is expended on management jollies such as "away-days" Now if they could have an "Away-year" .....
The "golfer" tag was a bit cheap. However it refers to a small clique within the organisation ( and they know who they are ) which seems to have replaced the Masons in an attempt to feather their own nests.
Thread Starter
Lon , thanks for that , it just about sums up the whole sorry situation . Promises made , promises broken - read contract , by management . Usual story . I fear though that management is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat and then sit there thinking " see , we won " . No news yet .
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fear though that management is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat and then sit there thinking " see , we won "
If there is to be some pre strike settlement, make sure it's what you are truly happy with. There will only be regrets further down the line if not, and action on that basis will be flagged as breaking an agreement reached now.......
Remember, management spend huge amounts of time and money off doing all these 'tree hugging' type courses, and learning how to negotiate to win - they are skilled in the area - the workforce is not......
30W
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After a successful meeting between TUEM and the DG tonight the Maastricht strike is cancelled.
The IFPU strike planned for the 15th should also be cancelled subject to ratification by FFPE members of an agreement reached by union reps this evening.
Common sense seems to have prevailed.
Well done to all those involved in these negotiations.
The IFPU strike planned for the 15th should also be cancelled subject to ratification by FFPE members of an agreement reached by union reps this evening.
Common sense seems to have prevailed.
Well done to all those involved in these negotiations.
Thread Starter
No it has been accepted yesterday evening by the union board . All we have to do now is sit back and wait for management to do their bit ..... once again !
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PLANNED INDUSTRIAL ACTION CANCELLED
Valid from 08 Jun 2006 to 09 Jun 2006 (released 08 Jun 2006 at 09:20:35)
----------- PLANNED INDUSTRIAL ACTION CANCELLED ------------
.
THE PLANNED INDUSTRIAL ACTION ON FRIDAY 9TH JUNE BY TWO TRADE
UNIONS IN EUROCONTROL'S MUAC AND CFMU HAS BEEN CANCELLED.
.
CFMU BRUSSELS
Valid from 08 Jun 2006 to 09 Jun 2006 (released 08 Jun 2006 at 09:20:35)
----------- PLANNED INDUSTRIAL ACTION CANCELLED ------------
.
THE PLANNED INDUSTRIAL ACTION ON FRIDAY 9TH JUNE BY TWO TRADE
UNIONS IN EUROCONTROL'S MUAC AND CFMU HAS BEEN CANCELLED.
.
CFMU BRUSSELS
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that the threat is gone some comments :.
According to both parties all of Maastricht Union Claims have been agreed upon or will be addressed. On appearances, the union won and management lost.
Appearances only, and my impression is that today the local management is further isolated from the controllers. Also some of the motivations for people to go on strike were not on the Union list (e.g. the roster issue) and are still unresolved. The unhappiness and frustrations are still there.
The hard fact is that everyone still has to work together, summer traffic has started but the main hurdles are still ahead. I sincerely hope that good sense and humility will win at the end of the day, that the real underlying problems will be addressed (and they can easily be resolved, believe me!) and that a normal friendly working relation between management and controllers can be restored.
Hiding that fact will only push the problem a few months.
There was a long period of time in the Centre history , that Lon More and Captain O'n'g can recall, where coming to work as a controller was a real pleasure. The past won't come back, times have changed, but why basic respect for your fellow workers has disappeared ? That is not so difficult to restore, with a bit of good will from both sides.
Maastricht Controllers are one of the finest workforce I have ever seen, and the current capacity levels (over 70 a/c per hour!) Proves it still exists. Motivation to give a service to pilots and airlines is still there.
Things like: Willingness to test new tools (e.g. the data link/ Petal) in difficult traffic conditions, airspace reorganization to improve traffic flows or accommodate neighbors, etc... All these are possible in Maastricht without any problems.
The only problem is the controller/management relations.
It is sad that only under the threat of industrial actions problems are addressed, and even then in a confrontational manner..
After those last days that included requisitions letters and court actions threats, there is a lot of repair work to do.
Hoping for the best for all of you at the sharp end.
According to both parties all of Maastricht Union Claims have been agreed upon or will be addressed. On appearances, the union won and management lost.
Appearances only, and my impression is that today the local management is further isolated from the controllers. Also some of the motivations for people to go on strike were not on the Union list (e.g. the roster issue) and are still unresolved. The unhappiness and frustrations are still there.
The hard fact is that everyone still has to work together, summer traffic has started but the main hurdles are still ahead. I sincerely hope that good sense and humility will win at the end of the day, that the real underlying problems will be addressed (and they can easily be resolved, believe me!) and that a normal friendly working relation between management and controllers can be restored.
Hiding that fact will only push the problem a few months.
There was a long period of time in the Centre history , that Lon More and Captain O'n'g can recall, where coming to work as a controller was a real pleasure. The past won't come back, times have changed, but why basic respect for your fellow workers has disappeared ? That is not so difficult to restore, with a bit of good will from both sides.
Maastricht Controllers are one of the finest workforce I have ever seen, and the current capacity levels (over 70 a/c per hour!) Proves it still exists. Motivation to give a service to pilots and airlines is still there.
Things like: Willingness to test new tools (e.g. the data link/ Petal) in difficult traffic conditions, airspace reorganization to improve traffic flows or accommodate neighbors, etc... All these are possible in Maastricht without any problems.
The only problem is the controller/management relations.
It is sad that only under the threat of industrial actions problems are addressed, and even then in a confrontational manner..
After those last days that included requisitions letters and court actions threats, there is a lot of repair work to do.
Hoping for the best for all of you at the sharp end.
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
current capacity levels (over 70 a/c per hour!)
Yes, I really enjoyed going to work for most of my career. It was only the last couple which were less than enjoyable. Made a lot of good friends - even the ex. there.
One of the major problems is that management appointments are not done on the basis of ability or suitability but for political reasons. Going back more than 20 years one nation has supplied all the Head of Ops.. The same nation is the one that, despite promising the delegation of its upper airspace, constantly worked to undermine the very existance of the Centre. When the handover was finally made it was done grudgingly, and still the sabotage attempts continued. A number of the earlier saboteurs were even promoted to Supervisory positions.
If you think working for one employer can be bad, try working for 5 sets of civil servants ( the Eurocontrol ones + 4 sets of national ones) and their political masters ). This further complicates matters as all important decisions have to be ratified by all of them.
I'm afraid this is not the end of the matter.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Here and there or somewhere in between
Age: 63
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done the ops staff
Congratulations - you have kept your dignity and an enviable record of never having gone on strike.
Now for the bad part, as I said earlier - management will now be going all out for victory - therefore ensure you have all of your CYA precautions at full strength. This is not a change of sides, Just never met a management with dignity in disputes.
Hope the management will honour all their promises sooner rather than later.
Lon More,
You unwittingly disclosed the management problem. When you said you thought I had inside info - absolutely correct. No offence taken over the wrong ident, (memo to get authentic squawk for future). But, remember the time period and places I spoke of. That plus infrequent updates. Maybe that is the same info your M is using. Another point I always thought to the centre's benefit was the promotion from the floor. Unlike so many other companies, where the old school tie is the entry requirement, at least your organisation used aviation people. But, the old English song comes to mind 'The working class can kiss my etc.,' I am sure you know what I mean, now I see outsiders are being sneaked in. Also, I was given to believe in European organisations, salary was sacred, any other renumeration could be 'adjusted'. OoD again, the bad new world has caught up with Europe.
Incidentally, the business card remark was not meant for you, just one of the memories, when I read my efforts today, it does sound bad, apologies. Being as you were one of Geertie's boys - you must be OK.
Now for the bad part, as I said earlier - management will now be going all out for victory - therefore ensure you have all of your CYA precautions at full strength. This is not a change of sides, Just never met a management with dignity in disputes.
Hope the management will honour all their promises sooner rather than later.
Lon More,
You unwittingly disclosed the management problem. When you said you thought I had inside info - absolutely correct. No offence taken over the wrong ident, (memo to get authentic squawk for future). But, remember the time period and places I spoke of. That plus infrequent updates. Maybe that is the same info your M is using. Another point I always thought to the centre's benefit was the promotion from the floor. Unlike so many other companies, where the old school tie is the entry requirement, at least your organisation used aviation people. But, the old English song comes to mind 'The working class can kiss my etc.,' I am sure you know what I mean, now I see outsiders are being sneaked in. Also, I was given to believe in European organisations, salary was sacred, any other renumeration could be 'adjusted'. OoD again, the bad new world has caught up with Europe.
Incidentally, the business card remark was not meant for you, just one of the memories, when I read my efforts today, it does sound bad, apologies. Being as you were one of Geertie's boys - you must be OK.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: 31000' @ .70
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CaptainO'n'G
Please excuse my tardiness in replying to your post, but if you would like to re-read my post, you will see that i have not quoted ANY facts. All of my post was my OPINION !!!!
After having spent the last few days flying around europe and through MAST control many times , I will respectfully stick to my opinion, and i know for a fact that many of my colleagues and friends would support me.
With regard to your reply , I would suggest that you get out from behind your desk and try flying accross europe without the help of the guys at MAST!
Also regarding the "extra 10 mins or so " , the comment was made to indicate only my support of the action if neccessary, and if a delay of 30 mins or more was given the i would accept it without question knowing the reason behind the delay.
Lon More,
I do realise it would take more than 10 mins to fly around MAST airspace and i appreciate the sentiment, but i was just indicating a willingness to accept a delay to my schedule !
Please excuse my tardiness in replying to your post, but if you would like to re-read my post, you will see that i have not quoted ANY facts. All of my post was my OPINION !!!!
After having spent the last few days flying around europe and through MAST control many times , I will respectfully stick to my opinion, and i know for a fact that many of my colleagues and friends would support me.
With regard to your reply , I would suggest that you get out from behind your desk and try flying accross europe without the help of the guys at MAST!
Also regarding the "extra 10 mins or so " , the comment was made to indicate only my support of the action if neccessary, and if a delay of 30 mins or more was given the i would accept it without question knowing the reason behind the delay.
Lon More,
I do realise it would take more than 10 mins to fly around MAST airspace and i appreciate the sentiment, but i was just indicating a willingness to accept a delay to my schedule !
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid this is not the end of the matter.
Given the workforce must have already voted for industrial action, I would expect my union representative having made headway in negotiations to call off the industrial action PENDING consultation/voting on the proposals with it's membership. It seems this is not the case
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
30W
My understanding is that management have agreed to pretty much all of the unions demands. The union now have a framework agreement, signed by the DG, meaning that any dispute now has to be resolved within 18 weeks or industrial action can follow (any union members feel free to correct me!).
This is a huge step forward from the previous prevaricating by the human resources people who were quite happy to drag things on for years without progress or resolution
It would be legally difficult to continue with industrial action on the basis of a breakdown in negotiations when management have capitulated to such a degree. When all is said and done this is a very good result for the union.
My understanding is that management have agreed to pretty much all of the unions demands. The union now have a framework agreement, signed by the DG, meaning that any dispute now has to be resolved within 18 weeks or industrial action can follow (any union members feel free to correct me!).
This is a huge step forward from the previous prevaricating by the human resources people who were quite happy to drag things on for years without progress or resolution
It would be legally difficult to continue with industrial action on the basis of a breakdown in negotiations when management have capitulated to such a degree. When all is said and done this is a very good result for the union.