Landing, take-off at VABB unsafe
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Just part of the fun flying to this part of the world! Calling for start the other day, due to 27 being shut, big delays and the ground guy maxed out and didn't have a clue how many aircraft were waiting or in what order - we went from No5 to No 6 in 10 minutes
Always a tailwind on 27 on approach and don't believe a word they say about anything! They just want to please everybody but won't admit it if they don't know/understand something!!!
Still, the Chakra on Andheri Road still serves the best meals and it's a great place. Enjoy
Always a tailwind on 27 on approach and don't believe a word they say about anything! They just want to please everybody but won't admit it if they don't know/understand something!!! Still, the Chakra on Andheri Road still serves the best meals and it's a great place. Enjoy
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Guys look at the other view point:
-Controllers have to deal with a huge increase in aviation traffic which has more than doubled in a year.
-The govt has to spend all development money to rehabilitate the slum dwellers who are occupying part of AAI land.
-The Rwy was designed about 70 years back.
-Aviation in India was an elitist subject till a few months back.
I can go on and on, but the bottom line is this is one of the worlds most successful democracies and they have to keep their citizens happy.....
Grin and bear it like all of us are doing..
-Controllers have to deal with a huge increase in aviation traffic which has more than doubled in a year.
-The govt has to spend all development money to rehabilitate the slum dwellers who are occupying part of AAI land.
-The Rwy was designed about 70 years back.
-Aviation in India was an elitist subject till a few months back.
I can go on and on, but the bottom line is this is one of the worlds most successful democracies and they have to keep their citizens happy.....
Grin and bear it like all of us are doing..
Join Date: Sep 2004
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mumbai airport
quote from jagbag
"-The Rwy was designed about 70 years back."
what he forgot to add was it was done by us the brits
trouble is they built the airport and a public toilet at the end of 27
whilst reading all the negatives about bombay i do like the place the people are friendly and do go out of thier way to accomodate us ,in a overcrowded country with a population of about 1 billion i think they are doing a good job of a bad job
"-The Rwy was designed about 70 years back."
what he forgot to add was it was done by us the brits
trouble is they built the airport and a public toilet at the end of 27
whilst reading all the negatives about bombay i do like the place the people are friendly and do go out of thier way to accomodate us ,in a overcrowded country with a population of about 1 billion i think they are doing a good job of a bad job
ex-Tanker
Join Date: Apr 2000
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A bit Defensive?
I think we have to differenciate between listing deficiencies and complaining about our lot.
A while back a whole lot of criticism was levelled at ZRH on another thread. I don't recall anyone being told to "keep out of the kitchen" then. I also flew some wicked approaches on Japanese islands and enjoyed it - but it was necessary to appreciate the hazards all the same.
If we can't mention deficiencies on this site, just because the people there are nice, where can we?
FC.
A while back a whole lot of criticism was levelled at ZRH on another thread. I don't recall anyone being told to "keep out of the kitchen" then. I also flew some wicked approaches on Japanese islands and enjoyed it - but it was necessary to appreciate the hazards all the same.
If we can't mention deficiencies on this site, just because the people there are nice, where can we?
FC.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I think the problem is, Few cloudy, is that many of the younger guys on the new(er) fancy glass equipment, with just barely adequate training in real FLYING skills, just look at VABB, and see nothing but trouble.
IE, if it ain't a normal 3 degree straight in ILS, ala many airports in Europe, some of these guys just don't know how to cope.
Companies are no better either, suggesting that the automatics be used all the time, these folks just don't get the handling skills necessary, and that really is a shame, IMO.
Shock...horror.
How about...disconnect the autopilot, bias the flight director out of view, and FLY THE AEROPLANE.
IE, if it ain't a normal 3 degree straight in ILS, ala many airports in Europe, some of these guys just don't know how to cope.
Companies are no better either, suggesting that the automatics be used all the time, these folks just don't get the handling skills necessary, and that really is a shame, IMO.
Shock...horror.
How about...disconnect the autopilot, bias the flight director out of view, and FLY THE AEROPLANE.
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Errr, have you been to VABB lately? R27 is a straight in ILS just like most of the ones in Europe, the only difference being its a 3.3deg slope, which is hardly challenging given just a couple of minutes pre-planning.
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If you don't like to go there, book sick. I spent 3 months there last year with Jet on the 340. Loved every minute of it. ATC there is doing the best they can with limited resources. Chalk it up to experience. Thanks to all the Jet pilots and cabin crew for making my stay memorable. A very professional bunch of people
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Completely agree. I've just come back from a very enjoyable VABB nightstop.
If you can't hack it, take up plumbing.
On the other hand, if you want to talk about a truly godforsaken third world airport, let's start a thread about JFK.
If you can't hack it, take up plumbing.
On the other hand, if you want to talk about a truly godforsaken third world airport, let's start a thread about JFK.
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Its not bout food&bev - Its bout safety!!!
JB and d others,
Guys,
This thread is not about yr BOM nightstop feedback. Its about the totally corrupted safety of VABB.
I go there at least 1/month, last year I did 5 in a row over 3 weeks.
Its unbelievable how bad things are on a BAD DAY. I m not talkin bout d guys who fly there 1/year or 1/2yrs.
Yes, I also enjoy the seafood at Krishna in Colaba. But its not bout how good food or women are in BOM.
We need feedback on all d s--t that keeps flyin around U in and off VABB.
So us, who get to risk our lives and the pax's ones, know what to expect!!!
So do not waste yr&my time unless U have to say someth on the mark!
Pls!!!
Guys,
This thread is not about yr BOM nightstop feedback. Its about the totally corrupted safety of VABB.
I go there at least 1/month, last year I did 5 in a row over 3 weeks.
Its unbelievable how bad things are on a BAD DAY. I m not talkin bout d guys who fly there 1/year or 1/2yrs.
Yes, I also enjoy the seafood at Krishna in Colaba. But its not bout how good food or women are in BOM.
We need feedback on all d s--t that keeps flyin around U in and off VABB.
So us, who get to risk our lives and the pax's ones, know what to expect!!!
So do not waste yr&my time unless U have to say someth on the mark!
Pls!!!
Yes, agree too.
In the last two months I've been to BLR, DEL, BOM, CCU & MAA. Considering there's been hardly any improvent in the aviation infrastructure since these airports were built and traffic levels are at record highs, I think they are doing a bloody good job with what they have. There is still an LOT of room for improvement, though. Don't go there with 5mins holding fuel, cross-check everything and keep an eagle eye on other traffic. If you've been to Lagos (or even JFK) you won't find it a problem, it may even be a bit of a relief. I would rather do an ILS onto 27 @ BOM during the Monsoon than a 'Canarsie' in similar weather at you-know-where...
In the last two months I've been to BLR, DEL, BOM, CCU & MAA. Considering there's been hardly any improvent in the aviation infrastructure since these airports were built and traffic levels are at record highs, I think they are doing a bloody good job with what they have. There is still an LOT of room for improvement, though. Don't go there with 5mins holding fuel, cross-check everything and keep an eagle eye on other traffic. If you've been to Lagos (or even JFK) you won't find it a problem, it may even be a bit of a relief. I would rather do an ILS onto 27 @ BOM during the Monsoon than a 'Canarsie' in similar weather at you-know-where...
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Yes, I've only done Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai and Delhi once but I didn't see any great hazzards.
Don't like the approach into 27 at BOM? You'd LOVE the LOC 27 at San Diego. Skimming a shanty or a parking garage on approach--what's the difference? Everyone here speaks wistfully of the checkerboard approach into Kai Tek but gets nervous about BOM rwy 27.
I do a 3.3 glideslope every so often when ATC keeps me too high. Big deal.
Dogs on the runway? A dog makes the same size dent in the plane as a seagull at JFK. At least the dogs in BOM don't fly.
No, I don't fly into Indian airports every day but I got the same level of disdain for JFK after flying in there every day. Moderate chop on the first third of 32L. Waiting for takeoff for 1:40 during the evening rush hour. TCAS alerts over Long Island. The terminals stink (not by Indian standards, but...). Language barrier with the controllers.
At least the people in India are friendly.
India IS behind the curve with it's infrastructure updates. Guess the Brits gave up about 50 years too soon...
TC
Don't like the approach into 27 at BOM? You'd LOVE the LOC 27 at San Diego. Skimming a shanty or a parking garage on approach--what's the difference? Everyone here speaks wistfully of the checkerboard approach into Kai Tek but gets nervous about BOM rwy 27.
I do a 3.3 glideslope every so often when ATC keeps me too high. Big deal.
Dogs on the runway? A dog makes the same size dent in the plane as a seagull at JFK. At least the dogs in BOM don't fly.
No, I don't fly into Indian airports every day but I got the same level of disdain for JFK after flying in there every day. Moderate chop on the first third of 32L. Waiting for takeoff for 1:40 during the evening rush hour. TCAS alerts over Long Island. The terminals stink (not by Indian standards, but...). Language barrier with the controllers.
At least the people in India are friendly.India IS behind the curve with it's infrastructure updates. Guess the Brits gave up about 50 years too soon...
TC
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
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No anti-USA bias here then.
JFK unsafe, BOM much better. Right.
I've now heard it all.
In the words of that ever-popular Yank, Mr. John McEnroe, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!"
I've now heard it all.
In the words of that ever-popular Yank, Mr. John McEnroe, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!"
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Never been offered a visual approach at night with no approach or threshold lights at BOM. The vectoring is better at BOM too. And they don't turn off the ILS or give you a VOR approach in a howling crosswind for noise abatement purposes either.
We can be serious. I know where I'd rather go.
We can be serious. I know where I'd rather go.
I Have Control
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Meaning?
Please clarify. Never operated with an ATC person who was not on my side. HF Comms/language/ability seem to be issues pertaining to safety and professional standards.
But JFK controllers not on our side, and BOM controllers with us? I am baffled. Clear explanation is due. Almost a racist theme here.
But JFK controllers not on our side, and BOM controllers with us? I am baffled. Clear explanation is due. Almost a racist theme here.
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A view
RH you would only understand what people are talking about if you have operated in to JFK and BOM and I have and do. There is nothing racist going on here. BOM is a s**t hole but ATC are doing there best and it generally works but you have to be ever vigilant, especially on the ground when you might come across people and stray animals anywhere. As for JFK, just as HS mentions, recently given a Canarsie (visual curved approach to RW13L) rolling wings level below 400 feet in a 747 with no ILS, VASIS or Approach Lights…just a piece of concrete with some lights down the sides. Obviously doable but not what one would expect from an International US gateway. It is worse than third world destinations that I have flown too like BOM,LOS,LUN etc.
And just to add insult to injury on arrival at the stand I was informed that the immigration computer had crashed in that terminal and after the bags had been off loaded I got pushed back and had to start up and taxi to another terminal where the pax could deplane.
JFK also holds my taxi time record before take-off…. 1:41 !! Set on the same trip.
I have to say that sometimes one can get the distinct impression that JFK controllers are not on your side. The movie ‘Pushing Tin’ was an eye opener to me. I have been on vectors at JFK for the ILS 22L when ATC let us get too high, was then cleared for the VOR/DME approach so that we had to sort out our own height out, which was way too high…… I politely declined and insisted on the ILS which obviously required more vectoring to get the height off to intercept the G/S.
And just to add insult to injury on arrival at the stand I was informed that the immigration computer had crashed in that terminal and after the bags had been off loaded I got pushed back and had to start up and taxi to another terminal where the pax could deplane.
JFK also holds my taxi time record before take-off…. 1:41 !! Set on the same trip.
I have to say that sometimes one can get the distinct impression that JFK controllers are not on your side. The movie ‘Pushing Tin’ was an eye opener to me. I have been on vectors at JFK for the ILS 22L when ATC let us get too high, was then cleared for the VOR/DME approach so that we had to sort out our own height out, which was way too high…… I politely declined and insisted on the ILS which obviously required more vectoring to get the height off to intercept the G/S.