Lufthansa and Pilots' Union Accept Arbitration
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Lufthansa and Pilots' Union Accept Arbitration
May 22, 2001
Lufthansa, Pilots Go to Arbitration
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:47 p.m. ET
BERLIN (AP) -- Lufthansa and the union representing most of its pilots agreed Tuesday to take their bitter pay dispute to arbitration, and the union said it would hold off on strike action during the process.
The airline suggested an external arbitrator be appointed after the latest round of pay talks broke down early Tuesday.
"We will go along with this idea,'' said Georg Fongern, spokesman for the Vereinigung Cockpit union.
The union earlier declared the pay talks a failure, charging that "every movement of VC toward a compromise with Lufthansa management was met with a deterioration of their offer.''
Lufthansa spokesman Klaus Walther described the latest breakdown as "incomprehensible,'' insisting that the airline "negotiated flexibly.''
Union negotiator Michael Tarp said the pilots wouldn't strike while attempts at arbitration are ongoing, but would immediately resume their action if they break down.
While Tarp cautioned that a decision whether to go ahead with a planned 24-hour strike Thursday depends on how soon arbitration can begin, Lufthansa spokeswoman Sigrid Baeumer said the pilots had sent "positive signals'' that they would work as normal that day.
The pilots plan to strike every Thursday until their demands are met, and have warned that they may step up their protest with extra, unannounced stoppages.
Last Thursday, striking pilots forced Lufthansa to cancel 800 out of 1,100 flights, affecting thousands of passengers. A week earlier, Lufthansa canceled more than 900 flights, when pilots staged their first 24-hour walkout.
Pilots are demanding a 24-percent wage increase to achieve parity with competitors.
The airline said its last offer amounted to a 30.3 percent raise -- including performance-based pay -- in the first year of a four-year contract. Further increases would be tied to those in other German industries.
Lufthansa, Pilots Go to Arbitration
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:47 p.m. ET
BERLIN (AP) -- Lufthansa and the union representing most of its pilots agreed Tuesday to take their bitter pay dispute to arbitration, and the union said it would hold off on strike action during the process.
The airline suggested an external arbitrator be appointed after the latest round of pay talks broke down early Tuesday.
"We will go along with this idea,'' said Georg Fongern, spokesman for the Vereinigung Cockpit union.
The union earlier declared the pay talks a failure, charging that "every movement of VC toward a compromise with Lufthansa management was met with a deterioration of their offer.''
Lufthansa spokesman Klaus Walther described the latest breakdown as "incomprehensible,'' insisting that the airline "negotiated flexibly.''
Union negotiator Michael Tarp said the pilots wouldn't strike while attempts at arbitration are ongoing, but would immediately resume their action if they break down.
While Tarp cautioned that a decision whether to go ahead with a planned 24-hour strike Thursday depends on how soon arbitration can begin, Lufthansa spokeswoman Sigrid Baeumer said the pilots had sent "positive signals'' that they would work as normal that day.
The pilots plan to strike every Thursday until their demands are met, and have warned that they may step up their protest with extra, unannounced stoppages.
Last Thursday, striking pilots forced Lufthansa to cancel 800 out of 1,100 flights, affecting thousands of passengers. A week earlier, Lufthansa canceled more than 900 flights, when pilots staged their first 24-hour walkout.
Pilots are demanding a 24-percent wage increase to achieve parity with competitors.
The airline said its last offer amounted to a 30.3 percent raise -- including performance-based pay -- in the first year of a four-year contract. Further increases would be tied to those in other German industries.
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do i understand correctly that if vc and lh cannot agree on an arbitrator within today, the union can / will go ahead with the strike on thursday?
we will know in the next 6-8 hour smost likely anyway
we will know in the next 6-8 hour smost likely anyway
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Hailstone: Doesn't matter anymore, they have agreed on an Arbitrator...
... and guess who it will be...
One of the more distinguished frequent-travellers of the 80's, although most of it on Luftwaffe 707's:
Former German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher!
So, no strike on Thursday.
... and guess who it will be...
One of the more distinguished frequent-travellers of the 80's, although most of it on Luftwaffe 707's:
Former German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher!
So, no strike on Thursday.
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May 25, 2001
Lufthansa Pilots Pessimistic
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:48 a.m. ET
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) -- Lufthansa pilots see no quick end to their dispute with the airline over wages after the two sides appointed an arbitrator and averted a new strike, a union spokesman said Friday.
The mediation of former German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher is unlikely to bring a result for several days, Ruediger Fach said. No limit has been set for Genscher to find a solution, he said.
Lufthansa declined to comment on the progress of the talks or estimate how long it might take to reach an agreement.
The Vereinigung Cockpit union and Lufthansa called in an arbitrator after their latest round of talks broke down Tuesday.
The pilots, who have been pushing for a big raise since February, pledged to interrupt their weekly strikes during arbitration. They have staged two 24-hour strikes this month, forcing Lufthansa to cancel hundreds of flights.
Pilots are demanding a 24 percent wage increase to achieve parity with competitors. The airline said its last offer amounted to a 30.3 percent raise -- including performance-based pay -- in the first year of a four-year contract. Excluding performance-based pay, Lufthansa said its offer would boost salaries 13.6 percent.
Lufthansa Pilots Pessimistic
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:48 a.m. ET
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) -- Lufthansa pilots see no quick end to their dispute with the airline over wages after the two sides appointed an arbitrator and averted a new strike, a union spokesman said Friday.
The mediation of former German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher is unlikely to bring a result for several days, Ruediger Fach said. No limit has been set for Genscher to find a solution, he said.
Lufthansa declined to comment on the progress of the talks or estimate how long it might take to reach an agreement.
The Vereinigung Cockpit union and Lufthansa called in an arbitrator after their latest round of talks broke down Tuesday.
The pilots, who have been pushing for a big raise since February, pledged to interrupt their weekly strikes during arbitration. They have staged two 24-hour strikes this month, forcing Lufthansa to cancel hundreds of flights.
Pilots are demanding a 24 percent wage increase to achieve parity with competitors. The airline said its last offer amounted to a 30.3 percent raise -- including performance-based pay -- in the first year of a four-year contract. Excluding performance-based pay, Lufthansa said its offer would boost salaries 13.6 percent.
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Mr. Genscher said, he wants to reach a proposal within 3 weeks.
Neither has to accept it.
And even if both accept, the VC-members still have to accept with more than 50%.
So if just one side doesn´t accept the proposal, it could all start again.
Mr. Genscher is analyzing each sides views over the weekend and will be able to pose questions about details starting Monday.
After that the arbitration talks will actually start.
We´ll just have to be patient and "hang in there".
Our people are doing their best.
Interesting times...
Neither has to accept it.
And even if both accept, the VC-members still have to accept with more than 50%.
So if just one side doesn´t accept the proposal, it could all start again.
Mr. Genscher is analyzing each sides views over the weekend and will be able to pose questions about details starting Monday.
After that the arbitration talks will actually start.
We´ll just have to be patient and "hang in there".
Our people are doing their best.
Interesting times...
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Wonderbus
What is the real offer in the end. between VC and DLH it's kind of hard to get a real picture of what is going on. On this side of the Rhein, everyone seems to have understood that you'd won what you wanted. You need to work in the journo's a bit.
What is the real offer in the end. between VC and DLH it's kind of hard to get a real picture of what is going on. On this side of the Rhein, everyone seems to have understood that you'd won what you wanted. You need to work in the journo's a bit.
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They´re working on the journos. It just takes too long.
"The other side" has far better resources, but VC is learning.
It´s the first time in the history of this business in Germany, that we´ve done this sort of thing.
Groups within the unions are carefully watching our "stance" and are finally giving their leadership some flak.
Check this out, if you can read German:
http://www.labournet.de/branchen/die...tenstreik.html
The main problem is the duration of the contract, as I see it.
This boils down to the question of:
"Us or them?!"
An unheard of attitude in this "concensus"-driven (what a load of b.s.!) society.
DLH can´t back down from their last offer of an average of 10.6% immediately (plus 2 monthly salaries in 2001 for last years reslut), plus a further 3%, plus a raise every year according to the average industry payrise in Deutschland during (plus zero to two monthly salaries each year depending on previous years´ profits) over a period of 4 (!!) years.
So for the next four years we wouldn´t be able to possibly amend the contract, or react to possible outsourcing "ideas" (What´s Cityline going to to with all those Fairchilds they´ve ordered etc.).
Our folks last wanted 24% immediately plus two monthly salaries in 2001 for 2000 and a contract period of 12 months.
I don´t know if the two sides came any closer than that.
The CEO allegedly said (weekly mag "Focus" last week) that, he wants to "break the pilots´back".
This attitude isn´t recieved too positively in the DLH pilots´ group.
One CP didn´t even let him visit the cockpit last week (for fear of endangering the safety of the flight by breaking the pilots´backs?).
We´ll just have to take a breather now and be ready again, when Mr. Genscher comes up with a proposal.
"The other side" has far better resources, but VC is learning.
It´s the first time in the history of this business in Germany, that we´ve done this sort of thing.
Groups within the unions are carefully watching our "stance" and are finally giving their leadership some flak.
Check this out, if you can read German:
http://www.labournet.de/branchen/die...tenstreik.html
The main problem is the duration of the contract, as I see it.
This boils down to the question of:
"Us or them?!"
An unheard of attitude in this "concensus"-driven (what a load of b.s.!) society.
DLH can´t back down from their last offer of an average of 10.6% immediately (plus 2 monthly salaries in 2001 for last years reslut), plus a further 3%, plus a raise every year according to the average industry payrise in Deutschland during (plus zero to two monthly salaries each year depending on previous years´ profits) over a period of 4 (!!) years.
So for the next four years we wouldn´t be able to possibly amend the contract, or react to possible outsourcing "ideas" (What´s Cityline going to to with all those Fairchilds they´ve ordered etc.).
Our folks last wanted 24% immediately plus two monthly salaries in 2001 for 2000 and a contract period of 12 months.
I don´t know if the two sides came any closer than that.
The CEO allegedly said (weekly mag "Focus" last week) that, he wants to "break the pilots´back".
This attitude isn´t recieved too positively in the DLH pilots´ group.
One CP didn´t even let him visit the cockpit last week (for fear of endangering the safety of the flight by breaking the pilots´backs?).
We´ll just have to take a breather now and be ready again, when Mr. Genscher comes up with a proposal.
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Don´t think they´ll extend it.
The potential heirs-to-the-throne are trying to make the best out of the current situation.
The chief negotiator Mr. Lauer is one - could be "make-or-break" for him.
Mr. Pichler CEO at C&N (CFG)-soon-to-be-Thompson is another one, who is trying to break CFG out of the DLH-contract-system. He´s been rather low-profile on the current situation, though, probably heavily meddling in the background.
Those two are the two top candidates for succession it seems, and of course both are very tough...
BTW, thanks for your support!
It really helps us just to hear from other pros that we´re not completely off the wall.
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 26 May 2001).]
The potential heirs-to-the-throne are trying to make the best out of the current situation.
The chief negotiator Mr. Lauer is one - could be "make-or-break" for him.
Mr. Pichler CEO at C&N (CFG)-soon-to-be-Thompson is another one, who is trying to break CFG out of the DLH-contract-system. He´s been rather low-profile on the current situation, though, probably heavily meddling in the background.
Those two are the two top candidates for succession it seems, and of course both are very tough...
BTW, thanks for your support!
It really helps us just to hear from other pros that we´re not completely off the wall.
[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 26 May 2001).]
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Wonderbus
In all my time with " the pride of our gallic skies " I've seen quite a few CEO's, 4 actually. They all, at one time or another said they were going to break our back, yet they're all gone and we're still here standing very straight, in every sense of the word (was worth mentioning gal's !! ). So don't be spooked by words. I know Aussie 1989 ' er would advise you to be cautious and there are a a lot of similarities in the way things work in Germany and Australia, big difference though is huge pilots shortage and you speaking german.
1998 was as hot as you can imagine, right in the middle of this ridiculous game, what was it again ? right, soccer ( Thanks luv ! ) We were even the official carrier. I'll let you imagine what kind of Bs we had to put up with. Even our personnal lives were very much affected, not a diner party where some A....ch wouldn't get at your throat.Just be assured that every Herr Müller in der Nachbachshaft would use such a leverage if they had it That was pure jealousy. I think the great Italian philosopher Spinozza put it roughly that way " Whenever people have the power, they use it " Sure enough there is always a point where one puts his signature on the contract but on the grounds of getting a fair deal, not because Frau und Herr Müller being all stirred up by ZDF has decided so.
Funny you should describe german consensual society as B.....tt because here you are the epitom of what we should do.
You say you're new at this but so is Herr Weber and he to has to learn that you don't tell a guy responsible for zillion $ airplane and hundreds of people to shutt the f..k Up and march straight even if you claim to be made of concrete. You'll get the hang of it and so will he. Let me tell you I am really impressed by the efficiency you guys handle this. Enjoy the break you're getting.
In all my time with " the pride of our gallic skies " I've seen quite a few CEO's, 4 actually. They all, at one time or another said they were going to break our back, yet they're all gone and we're still here standing very straight, in every sense of the word (was worth mentioning gal's !! ). So don't be spooked by words. I know Aussie 1989 ' er would advise you to be cautious and there are a a lot of similarities in the way things work in Germany and Australia, big difference though is huge pilots shortage and you speaking german.
1998 was as hot as you can imagine, right in the middle of this ridiculous game, what was it again ? right, soccer ( Thanks luv ! ) We were even the official carrier. I'll let you imagine what kind of Bs we had to put up with. Even our personnal lives were very much affected, not a diner party where some A....ch wouldn't get at your throat.Just be assured that every Herr Müller in der Nachbachshaft would use such a leverage if they had it That was pure jealousy. I think the great Italian philosopher Spinozza put it roughly that way " Whenever people have the power, they use it " Sure enough there is always a point where one puts his signature on the contract but on the grounds of getting a fair deal, not because Frau und Herr Müller being all stirred up by ZDF has decided so.
Funny you should describe german consensual society as B.....tt because here you are the epitom of what we should do.
You say you're new at this but so is Herr Weber and he to has to learn that you don't tell a guy responsible for zillion $ airplane and hundreds of people to shutt the f..k Up and march straight even if you claim to be made of concrete. You'll get the hang of it and so will he. Let me tell you I am really impressed by the efficiency you guys handle this. Enjoy the break you're getting.
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Don´t get me wrong here.
I´m actually a friend of this "consensus"-attitude (spelled it right now), because I personally believe it works better for all than say the more purely capiltalistic U.S. system (NO offense to anyone!! I don´t want to get into philosophical arguments.)
We would have not raised these demands, if we were endangering livelihoods.
Management and the big unions have made a big political thing out of this and use "socialist" or "capitalist" arguments whenever they seem to fit their cause - That´s the "B.S." I was refering to.
I´m actually a friend of this "consensus"-attitude (spelled it right now), because I personally believe it works better for all than say the more purely capiltalistic U.S. system (NO offense to anyone!! I don´t want to get into philosophical arguments.)
We would have not raised these demands, if we were endangering livelihoods.
Management and the big unions have made a big political thing out of this and use "socialist" or "capitalist" arguments whenever they seem to fit their cause - That´s the "B.S." I was refering to.
