Ryanair & Air Arran Bomb Threat Diversions to PIK (merged)
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Originally Posted by Rainboe
Sam Dilly, why do you have to make your opinion known (BIZARRE!) when you really don't know anything about airline or security procedures? A simple question would do without personal opinion attached.
Bacardi Walla- it is very unlikely some idiot 'handed over a note'. It is likely it was 'found'. Often written on the restroom mirror or discovered in a seat back. I hardly think anybody is going to say 'excuse me, but I've written a note- can you deliver it to the Captain?'
Bacardi Walla- it is very unlikely some idiot 'handed over a note'. It is likely it was 'found'. Often written on the restroom mirror or discovered in a seat back. I hardly think anybody is going to say 'excuse me, but I've written a note- can you deliver it to the Captain?'
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
I found some of the stuff in the daily rags somewhat disturbing. One suggested that Tony Blair was in direct contact with the lead Tornado pilot and might have been within seconds of having the passenger jet shot down, which raises a number of questions:
1. Was it thought that the aircraft has been hijacked? If not, why was there any consideration to shoot it down? I don't know the current statistics for bomb scares but they used to be not uncommon.
2. Is it really wise to have the PM running the show? Personally I would prefer the final decision to rest with a senior military officer rather than a politician.
3. Given the above, how will Captains react in future to a similar episode? Might they simply ask for a diversion and only reveal the true reason when close to landing?
4. I take the point about Prestwick being a designated diversion for security matters but if the thing is about to blow up it is surely prudent to get on the ground, like fast?
4. Lastly, one report said that the pilot reported the bomb scare to ATC who promptly handed control to the RAF.... Hmmmmm....
1. Was it thought that the aircraft has been hijacked? If not, why was there any consideration to shoot it down? I don't know the current statistics for bomb scares but they used to be not uncommon.
2. Is it really wise to have the PM running the show? Personally I would prefer the final decision to rest with a senior military officer rather than a politician.
3. Given the above, how will Captains react in future to a similar episode? Might they simply ask for a diversion and only reveal the true reason when close to landing?
4. I take the point about Prestwick being a designated diversion for security matters but if the thing is about to blow up it is surely prudent to get on the ground, like fast?
4. Lastly, one report said that the pilot reported the bomb scare to ATC who promptly handed control to the RAF.... Hmmmmm....
Oh, on point 2 - is Tony Blair not the supreme commander of the UK forces?
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Originally Posted by Rainboe
Bacardi Walla- it is very unlikely some idiot 'handed over a note'. It is likely it was 'found'. Often written on the restroom mirror or discovered in a seat back. I hardly think anybody is going to say 'excuse me, but I've written a note- can you deliver it to the Captain?'
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Originally Posted by aeroBits
I'd add another point to this, probably as number 1 - do you really believe the daily rags? I am not an expert and don't claim to be, but being close to order a shoot down would not make any sense in a scenario where the Flight Crew reported the incident, so I personally find this very unbelievable without concrete evidence. Once I put this into the category balloney, then most of the other questions go away as sensationalist reporting. Need to do some reading up on these claims now.
Oh, on point 2 - is Tony Blair not the supreme commander of the UK forces?
Oh, on point 2 - is Tony Blair not the supreme commander of the UK forces?
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Aerobits,
unless I'm a thousand miles off I think it's actually the queen who owns the forces. so thats okay then, an 80yr old with comparatively little graps of these things (or anything outwith corgi or horse droppings )is the boss (although it'd never come to that would it ????
)
reminds me of that nutter general on blackadder goes forth.
corgi says yes corgi says no. one is not amused, off with their heads.
unless I'm a thousand miles off I think it's actually the queen who owns the forces. so thats okay then, an 80yr old with comparatively little graps of these things (or anything outwith corgi or horse droppings )is the boss (although it'd never come to that would it ????
)reminds me of that nutter general on blackadder goes forth.
corgi says yes corgi says no. one is not amused, off with their heads.
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A national radio show in Ireland this morning carried an interview with the mother of a teenage girl who was on the flight, as part of a school tour accompanied by schoolteachers. She was incensed at her inability to get any information regarding the status of the situation from Ryanair or Prestwick Airport, and the indifference of the Ryanair 'customer service' person. Her daughter then came on-air to say that it was one of her group who found the note written on the Ryanair magazine in the seat pocket in front. (thought they didn't have in-flight mag rag or seat pockets). The teenager informed teachers who informed cabin crew. Apparently there was 'panic' in the cabin as word spread. Another pax then came on to say that another FR flight (no time or date or departing airport) diverted into Santiago en route to DUB and was equally appalled at FRs total indifference. This case was also a note on inflight material. I just wonder if the free for all bull run for seats, with no allocation is a contributory factor. After all if the inflight menu is in a seat pocket in front of your 'allocated seat' surely there would be some traceability from previous flights.
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Seat pockets, inflight magazine etc.
As a reasonably frequent Ryanair flyer I can say that the latest and possibly all Ryanair aircraft have non-reclinable seats with no pockets on the seat back.
The in-flight magazine is offered to passengers by the hosties as is the inflight menu. They are collected back by the hosties before landing and therefore re-used.
Likewise the hosties pass at least twice during a short flight to collect any rubbish like used cups, teabags, newspapers etc.
I personally think this a very good idea from the viewpoint of "green-ness" and tidyness. Whatever else one may think of Ryanair, I can honestly say that the interior of their planes is always impeccably clean and tidy - of course this contributes to the short turn-around time.
If someone had written a daft message in an in-flight mag and this was found, there's no saying when it was written or indeed on which flight - could have been days before and no-one had seen it previously.
The in-flight magazine is offered to passengers by the hosties as is the inflight menu. They are collected back by the hosties before landing and therefore re-used.
Likewise the hosties pass at least twice during a short flight to collect any rubbish like used cups, teabags, newspapers etc.
I personally think this a very good idea from the viewpoint of "green-ness" and tidyness. Whatever else one may think of Ryanair, I can honestly say that the interior of their planes is always impeccably clean and tidy - of course this contributes to the short turn-around time.
If someone had written a daft message in an in-flight mag and this was found, there's no saying when it was written or indeed on which flight - could have been days before and no-one had seen it previously.
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[quote=HEATHROW DIRECTOR]1. Was it thought that the aircraft has been hijacked? If not, why was there any consideration to shoot it down? I don't know the current statistics for bomb scares but they used to be not uncommon.
Since 9/11 everything is treated as a hijack. On my truce it was suggested that it should be one of your first thoughts on any number of scenarios from radio fail to bomb warnings. Unfortunately its the world we live in. I don't like the idea but people alot higher than me in the world have decided that this is the case.
Since 9/11 everything is treated as a hijack. On my truce it was suggested that it should be one of your first thoughts on any number of scenarios from radio fail to bomb warnings. Unfortunately its the world we live in. I don't like the idea but people alot higher than me in the world have decided that this is the case.
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"As a reasonably frequent Ryanair flyer I can say that the latest and possibly all Ryanair aircraft have non-reclinable seats with no pockets on the seat back." - daedalus
Quite right - I think I'm right in saying that the newer aircraft with larger ryanair titles on the outside (as the plane featured on the BBC coverage had) and lurid yellow / faux leather interior have no pockets, where as the aircraft with older titles have a (much more comfortable) cloth interior including seat back pockets.
I hope they do manage to trace the bell-end who wrote the note, but as previous posts have said, with no seat allocation and the fact that the message could have been written many flights ago, this could be impossible
ps. could someone tell me how to do quotes properly please?
Quite right - I think I'm right in saying that the newer aircraft with larger ryanair titles on the outside (as the plane featured on the BBC coverage had) and lurid yellow / faux leather interior have no pockets, where as the aircraft with older titles have a (much more comfortable) cloth interior including seat back pockets.
I hope they do manage to trace the bell-end who wrote the note, but as previous posts have said, with no seat allocation and the fact that the message could have been written many flights ago, this could be impossible
ps. could someone tell me how to do quotes properly please?
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First of all I should like to say that I have no idea of the procedures followed by the RAF in these circumstances but I was wondering if the RAF aircraft are visible to the passengers when escorting such an aircraft or are they positioned out of their line of sight? If they are visible then a very worrying thought occurs to me that maybe we are seeing the onset of a newer version of the arsonist who starts a fire just to see all the resultant activity. I sincerely hope not. As for complaints from the passengers, whilst it may seem to be ungrateful of them it may just be the need to express relief from a traumatic experience. We don't all express our relief in the same way, some cry, some shout and yell, others just retreat quietly into themselves. I am delighted that all turned out well in the end.
"Do seat backs come extra on Ryanair? I know they don't recline since the TV program! No pockets? Where do they put the inflight magazine? What inflight magazine? They do have toilets? Coin operated?"
No Recline,
No Tables,
No Seat Pockets,
No Sick Bags,
No Safety Cards (Glued to the back of head-rests),
No In-flight Mags (issued on request and have to be returned),
No Window Blinds.
Correct Change prefrerred.
Don't argue mit ze Staff.
Just think of all that weight they don't carry! Clever-Eh?
Didn't dare check for Life Jackets!
If no-one is charged for doing this Scare - it was an excercise
(RYA didn't/wouldn't PAY for food and drinks! - so it must have been the Government?)
No Recline,
No Tables,
No Seat Pockets,
No Sick Bags,
No Safety Cards (Glued to the back of head-rests),
No In-flight Mags (issued on request and have to be returned),
No Window Blinds.
Correct Change prefrerred.
Don't argue mit ze Staff.
Just think of all that weight they don't carry! Clever-Eh?
Didn't dare check for Life Jackets!
If no-one is charged for doing this Scare - it was an excercise
(RYA didn't/wouldn't PAY for food and drinks! - so it must have been the Government?)
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
3. Given the above, how will Captains react in future to a similar episode? Might they simply ask for a diversion and only reveal the true reason when close to landing?
The SAS are not going to abseil down from another aircraft, find the bomb and disable it with their teeth and some string, so the best thing that could be done would be to get down ASAP. There are a number of 'emergencies' that could be declared to get immediate priority to do that, without revealing the true reason.
SoS
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Picking up on the point made by HD, the reported involvement of Tony Blair.
Fewer words are probably better than more on this one, so excuse me if I sound a touch vague.
A couple of years ago I toured an RAF base in Lincolnshire, where a number of aircraft / crew are on 24 hour standby for exactly the sort of eventuality that occurred on this FR flight yesterday. The RAF chaps were keen to emphasise that, though these particular planes are armed and ready to go at all times, the permission to shoot down a civilian plane would not be taken by a military commander alone, it would have to be approved by Blair.
(This visit took place a couple of years ago, and procedures / rules of engagement may have changed.)
Fewer words are probably better than more on this one, so excuse me if I sound a touch vague.
A couple of years ago I toured an RAF base in Lincolnshire, where a number of aircraft / crew are on 24 hour standby for exactly the sort of eventuality that occurred on this FR flight yesterday. The RAF chaps were keen to emphasise that, though these particular planes are armed and ready to go at all times, the permission to shoot down a civilian plane would not be taken by a military commander alone, it would have to be approved by Blair.
(This visit took place a couple of years ago, and procedures / rules of engagement may have changed.)
This seems to have been a rather odd response to a "Bomb threat"
Firstly, why all this supposed "shoot-it-down" malarkey? It's not going to help a aeroplane with a bomb on board.
Second, there are reports of passengers being kept on board the jet for several hours - hardly the sort of action to take if there was even the remotest possibility of an explosive device being present. I mean, come on, we evacuate aircraft even if a little fuel has been spilt nearby.
All I can come up with at the moment is that the note/whatever was not about an IED but probably closer to hijacking...
Firstly, why all this supposed "shoot-it-down" malarkey? It's not going to help a aeroplane with a bomb on board.
Second, there are reports of passengers being kept on board the jet for several hours - hardly the sort of action to take if there was even the remotest possibility of an explosive device being present. I mean, come on, we evacuate aircraft even if a little fuel has been spilt nearby.
All I can come up with at the moment is that the note/whatever was not about an IED but probably closer to hijacking...
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Originally Posted by ELondonPax
the permission to shoot down a civilian plane would not be taken by a military commander alone, it would have to be approved by Blair.
To shoot down a planeload of your own citizens is pretty much the ultimate political decision!
That kind of call will always be made by a politician.
SoS
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I have to say that, as crew, any pilot who says that he wouldn't inform ATC of a bomb threat and simply ask for a diversion concerns me deeply. At the end of the day, does that pilot know if the device is on a trip where it would explode when cabin altitude starts to increase on decent? Correct me if I'm wrong, but under certain circumstances and on advice from explosive technicians it is the CC who search the cabin, the CC who have to move it if advised to, the CC who have to build the LRBL and the CC who have to deal with the PAX.
If a threat turned out to be real and the device was in the cabin (unlikely, I know) I would much rather have it packed in the LRBL so that if it did go off on landing, more of us would be likely to get out than if it did it's thing in a OHC or under a seat.
If a threat turned out to be real and the device was in the cabin (unlikely, I know) I would much rather have it packed in the LRBL so that if it did go off on landing, more of us would be likely to get out than if it did it's thing in a OHC or under a seat.