Good BA advice
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Good BA advice
Take heed, even the hacks in the city know the real problem!
TOO MANY MANAGERS HAVING MEETINGS WITH THEMSELVES. .Anthony Hilton, Evening Standard
BRITISH Airways is probably doing a bit better than today's figures would have us believe. Air travel has picked up on the transatlantic routes, to judge from the recent results of KLM and some American carriers, and BA should have benefited from that.
But it does no harm for employees and the City to think it is up to its neck in problems. It will make both rather more inclined to accept the pain to come when the result of the detailed 'future size and shape' study is revealed.
The core competence of the airline is clearly in long haul - that is what it has done best since the days of BOAC and what its fleet is designed for. But an intriguing development is that some of the existing European routes out of Gatwick are to be converted to no-frills low-cost operations. It will be a difficult trick to pull off - either a carrier is structured from top to bottom to be low cost or it isn't. Trying to be half-and-half risks doing neither well.
On an admittedly-superficial level, the best thing chief executive Rod Eddington could do to institute a culture of change would be to close and sell Waterside, BA's gleaming headquarters near Heathrow. Opened just a few years ago by Bob Ayling, then chief executive, it has come to symbolise a lot of what has gone wrong - too many unaccountable managers having meetings with themselves to the detriment of focus on the customer. Closing it would not solve BA's problems but it would send a powerful signal.
TOO MANY MANAGERS HAVING MEETINGS WITH THEMSELVES. .Anthony Hilton, Evening Standard
BRITISH Airways is probably doing a bit better than today's figures would have us believe. Air travel has picked up on the transatlantic routes, to judge from the recent results of KLM and some American carriers, and BA should have benefited from that.
But it does no harm for employees and the City to think it is up to its neck in problems. It will make both rather more inclined to accept the pain to come when the result of the detailed 'future size and shape' study is revealed.
The core competence of the airline is clearly in long haul - that is what it has done best since the days of BOAC and what its fleet is designed for. But an intriguing development is that some of the existing European routes out of Gatwick are to be converted to no-frills low-cost operations. It will be a difficult trick to pull off - either a carrier is structured from top to bottom to be low cost or it isn't. Trying to be half-and-half risks doing neither well.
On an admittedly-superficial level, the best thing chief executive Rod Eddington could do to institute a culture of change would be to close and sell Waterside, BA's gleaming headquarters near Heathrow. Opened just a few years ago by Bob Ayling, then chief executive, it has come to symbolise a lot of what has gone wrong - too many unaccountable managers having meetings with themselves to the detriment of focus on the customer. Closing it would not solve BA's problems but it would send a powerful signal.
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IF you've got 'free' access to the net and have nothing to do for an hour, have a listen to Rod Eddington addressing the 3rd Quarter results meeting earlier today (140G):-. .<a href="http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=BAB&script=1100" target="_blank">http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=BAB&script=1100</a>. .You might need Real Player or Win Media Player.
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NEW TO PPRUNE,BUT JUST ONE THING TO SAY,DEAR MR.EDDINGTON,DO YOU BELEIVE THERE IS SOMETHING GREATLY WRONG WITH BA,WHEN THE MASTER TROLLEY PUSHER GETS £50,000 WHICH IS SOMEWHAT LESS THAN A F/O ON B747 FLEET.
Mistrust in Management
Sevenforseven,
Apologies in advance if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but I thought I would let you know that you can edit any of your posts (including deleting if you wish).
All you need to do is click the little icon at the top right hand corner of your post. (The icon displays a paper and pen)
I find the deleting function particularly useful when I wake up with a nasty headache in the morning and realise that I'd been posting away after a few pints the evening before!
Incidentally I agree with your point with regards to pay.
. .Regards. .Exeng
Apologies in advance if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but I thought I would let you know that you can edit any of your posts (including deleting if you wish).
All you need to do is click the little icon at the top right hand corner of your post. (The icon displays a paper and pen)
I find the deleting function particularly useful when I wake up with a nasty headache in the morning and realise that I'd been posting away after a few pints the evening before!
Incidentally I agree with your point with regards to pay.
. .Regards. .Exeng
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Fruitbat!. .Hear Hear. Maybe the penny is starting to drop! Mind you if/when BA realises it needs to get rid of a shedload of 'managers' one gets the impression that they were the absolute LAST to cotton on! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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I’ve been thinking about the low cost operation at LGW (sheeeesh) and I like many thousands of others have been wondering how ‘BA’ and ‘low cost’ could be used in the same sentence. There is little doubt that such an operation would have to be run by a REALLY SKELETON management staff because the cost of running aeroplanes is more or less constant in this industry. Stellios said on TV yesterday that he didn’t achieve profitability by not offering a business class service, he made money because he doesn’t use travel agents, tickets, etc. He doesn’t have a massive corporate palace full of shiny beautiful people. Hence any competitive LGW operation will have to be along the same lines.
If this is successful, then the rubicon will have been crossed and BA will have to admit that an airline can be run without thousands and thousands of staff who are not directly connected with the service of customers and flying of aeroplanes. The game will be up for Waterworld and its empire. In a blinding flash on the Road to Damascus, BA could turn from civil service to cutting edge.
Maybe this is what Skippy has in mind. Clever move?
Incidentally, I read on another thread
>>>printers in Basing stoke has already been asked to print 16,000 BA redundancy notices<<<
Well that’ll be 16,000 incorrectly delivered redundancy notices then.
If this is successful, then the rubicon will have been crossed and BA will have to admit that an airline can be run without thousands and thousands of staff who are not directly connected with the service of customers and flying of aeroplanes. The game will be up for Waterworld and its empire. In a blinding flash on the Road to Damascus, BA could turn from civil service to cutting edge.
Maybe this is what Skippy has in mind. Clever move?
Incidentally, I read on another thread
>>>printers in Basing stoke has already been asked to print 16,000 BA redundancy notices<<<
Well that’ll be 16,000 incorrectly delivered redundancy notices then.
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Sevenforeseven, by this brilliant stroke of genius would it also be true that a 747 F/O should earn less than a Captain on any other BA aircraft?. ......And will you be putting that forward as an idea to your line manager in the near future!
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Feetwet ]</p>
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Feetwet ]</p>
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Given the very large differences in allowances this is hardly a sensible comparison eg I am a shorthaul Capt and I get perhaps one night stop a month therefore I would expect a busy 400 co to pull in more cash. .Regards Bigpants. .PS I don't have a problem with flightcrew differentials but I strongly object to some cabin crew on both short and long haul pulling in more money than the co-pilot
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Er, who exactly is this mythical "master trolley pusher" (I assume this is the term for your hard working colleagues on the other side of the bullet proof door) who earns 50grand?! I want his name and staff number as it seems I am being grossly underpaid.
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I assume you mean the Cabin Service Director, often to be found sitting in his 'office' on the 777 doing 'paperwork' for the duration of the flight? If he's not there, try looking in one of the premium seats, he might be taking in a movie- or telling the FO he can't have his meal there and must go back to the flight deck immediately. In the unlikely event you've not tracked him down yet, then he may be one of the few hard working ones earning his £39K basic + allowances.
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When are people going to realise that flight attendants are not an integral part of the crew of an aircraft, they are there to serve tea & coffee, & carry out the safety briefing. They therefore should earn a similar salary as a waitress because that is what they are.
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lets take a reality check here:
Cabin crew are essential for aircraft safety and the welfare of the passengers. But every other airline in the UK seems to be able to crew thier aircraft with competent guys and girls. None with the exception of BA pay such ludicrous salaries such as £39K plus allowances.
BA is in big trouble, it needs to shed the people from top manegment down to CSDs on silly salaries and wake up to the real world of competition!
It also needs to shed its arrogance, the amount of guys in BA that i have heard refer to any deal with KLM as a takeover!! Get real guys!! KLM lost £10m in the last quarter, have a very strong alliance with Northwest and are very cash rich. BA? 160m loss, 5 odd billion debts?? Yes BA and KLM need each other, but without the dead wood.
STANDING BY FOR INCOMING!!:-)
Cabin crew are essential for aircraft safety and the welfare of the passengers. But every other airline in the UK seems to be able to crew thier aircraft with competent guys and girls. None with the exception of BA pay such ludicrous salaries such as £39K plus allowances.
BA is in big trouble, it needs to shed the people from top manegment down to CSDs on silly salaries and wake up to the real world of competition!
It also needs to shed its arrogance, the amount of guys in BA that i have heard refer to any deal with KLM as a takeover!! Get real guys!! KLM lost £10m in the last quarter, have a very strong alliance with Northwest and are very cash rich. BA? 160m loss, 5 odd billion debts?? Yes BA and KLM need each other, but without the dead wood.
STANDING BY FOR INCOMING!!:-)
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As a pax I've noticed the CSD in his/her little office on 777s next to the cockpit. I note that occasionally she or he has to tinker with the IFE console to get the next set of videos running.
Other than pressing play on the video machine, I'd be very interested in knowing what other responsibilities this individual has.
£39K basic is a very nice salary (remember, the UK national *average* is £24K). Certainly a £39K basic salary would usually require a good degree. What qualifications are required to be a CSD?
Other than pressing play on the video machine, I'd be very interested in knowing what other responsibilities this individual has.
£39K basic is a very nice salary (remember, the UK national *average* is £24K). Certainly a £39K basic salary would usually require a good degree. What qualifications are required to be a CSD?
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because a few csd's are apparently on 39K per year doesn't mean the rest of us are, I work short haul as purser and I could earn comparable money with the low-cost airlines. I think this subject of the inherent value and necessity of cabin crew has been done to death.
because a few csd's are apparently on 39K per year doesn't mean the rest of us are, I work short haul as purser and I could earn comparable money with the low-cost airlines. I think this subject of the inherent value and necessity of cabin crew has been done to death.
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Would someone who thinks that I earn 37,000 as a basic and ends up 50,000 be so kind as to quote my building society with the figures as BA pay services can't. Infact my quote wasn't even near the sums quoted on this forum.
The starting salary for a CSD is 26,000.
The starting salary for a CSD is 26,000.