Saudi B777 Lands on Wrong LHR RWY?
Guest
Posts: n/a
411A and others
Thanks for that, I realize it is a subjective question, but that's the whole point of asking it.
I'm always interested to hear opinions on this matter.
I've always heard only praise for the guys/girls at LHR, a friend of mine flew in there recently and was very impressed.
Cheers
------------------
turn the plane! turn the plane!
Thanks for that, I realize it is a subjective question, but that's the whole point of asking it.
I'm always interested to hear opinions on this matter.
I've always heard only praise for the guys/girls at LHR, a friend of mine flew in there recently and was very impressed.
Cheers
------------------
turn the plane! turn the plane!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
>>Airbubba, wrong, there was not one single warning from Madras (Chennai) ATC at all.<<
Oh, really?
"...As we reported last week, the jumbo made a tire-scorching arrival on Tambaram's runway with 331 passengers and a crew of 17 on board. The pilot was supposed to fly into Meenambakkam, but continued his erroneous approach even after Indian officials fired red flares to warn the pilot against using the too-short runway."
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/news9724.html
Oh, really?
"...As we reported last week, the jumbo made a tire-scorching arrival on Tambaram's runway with 331 passengers and a crew of 17 on board. The pilot was supposed to fly into Meenambakkam, but continued his erroneous approach even after Indian officials fired red flares to warn the pilot against using the too-short runway."
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/news9724.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
411A
If you think AMS air traffic is best in Europe and better than LHR you either have a very stange idea of what "good ATC" is or have never been to either of them more than a few times. I operate out of LHR into AMS on a regular basis and they are not even in the same league. AMS air traffic seem to spend a lot of their time trying to mess you up with the most stupid radar vectoring I have ever come across. It is the only place I have, more than once, had to refuse a turn to the ILS because we were in an impossible position to fly an approach. Quite a few others I wish I had refused after only just getting stable in time to land. I have only operated around Europe. I am quite prepared to believe that there are ATC units as good as LHR in the world but there arent any in Europe and most certainly not in AMS.
If you think AMS air traffic is best in Europe and better than LHR you either have a very stange idea of what "good ATC" is or have never been to either of them more than a few times. I operate out of LHR into AMS on a regular basis and they are not even in the same league. AMS air traffic seem to spend a lot of their time trying to mess you up with the most stupid radar vectoring I have ever come across. It is the only place I have, more than once, had to refuse a turn to the ILS because we were in an impossible position to fly an approach. Quite a few others I wish I had refused after only just getting stable in time to land. I have only operated around Europe. I am quite prepared to believe that there are ATC units as good as LHR in the world but there arent any in Europe and most certainly not in AMS.
Guest
Posts: n/a
MaxAngle---
Have been flying into LHR and AMS since 1976 and still consider AMS radar services much better, but hey, you are intitled to your opinion. Think you must be a "new" guy.
Avman---
I did indeed forget about Maastricht Control, one of the best in the business! Professional in every respect.
[This message has been edited by 411A (edited 23 June 2001).]
Have been flying into LHR and AMS since 1976 and still consider AMS radar services much better, but hey, you are intitled to your opinion. Think you must be a "new" guy.
Avman---
I did indeed forget about Maastricht Control, one of the best in the business! Professional in every respect.
[This message has been edited by 411A (edited 23 June 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
WarpedFactor---
No suggestions, I just happen to prefer the AMS "style". Purely a subjective preference.
You guys do a great job.
Suspect that some guys have a problem with AMS because they (AMS controllers) tend to turn aircraft just before the marker and this upsets the automatics. If the vis is 800 metres or more I usually hand fly the approach, so it does not present a problem.
No suggestions, I just happen to prefer the AMS "style". Purely a subjective preference.
You guys do a great job.
Suspect that some guys have a problem with AMS because they (AMS controllers) tend to turn aircraft just before the marker and this upsets the automatics. If the vis is 800 metres or more I usually hand fly the approach, so it does not present a problem.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
>>That Avweb article is full of inaccuracies, therefore I really wouldnt believe the part about the flares either.<<
Yeah and we shouldn't believe any of this article either I suppose. I'm sure the Saudi papers had "reliable" coverage of this mistake on the part of Indian ATC.
"Saudi plane strays on to IAF base
A Saudi Arabian Airline Boeing 747 with 331 passengers and 17 crew members strayed from its flight path and landed at the Tambaram IAF station instead of the Chennai International Airport on Monday morning. The pilot ignored the "red signal'' cartridges fired by the IAF personnel to indicate that he was not to land there. Four tyres of the Boeing burst as it landed with a thud and the pilot jammed on the brakes to halt at the end of the secondary runway of the defence airfield at 6-44 a.m. None of the passengers or the crew was hurt. The flight was coming to Chennai from Riyadh and Dahran. Earlier, the Air Force radar controller had spotted the civilian aircraft and asked the air traffic controllers at the Chennai airport to direct it away from the restricted zone. The Chennai airport replied that there was a problem with its radar and that it would instruct the Saudi pilot suitably. The Saudi jet, however, reappeared over the IAF area at a height of about 2000 feet. It disappeared even as another message was conveyed to the Chennai airport by the IAF, only to come in again for a landing proper. The pilot, Capt. Khayyat, ignored the "red signal'' cartridges fired in the air to signal refusal of permission to land. The passengers complained later that it was a five-hour ordeal for them, trapped inside the plane in the summer heat."
http://www.indiaserver.com/thehindu/...b01.htm#Story5
Yeah and we shouldn't believe any of this article either I suppose. I'm sure the Saudi papers had "reliable" coverage of this mistake on the part of Indian ATC.
"Saudi plane strays on to IAF base
A Saudi Arabian Airline Boeing 747 with 331 passengers and 17 crew members strayed from its flight path and landed at the Tambaram IAF station instead of the Chennai International Airport on Monday morning. The pilot ignored the "red signal'' cartridges fired by the IAF personnel to indicate that he was not to land there. Four tyres of the Boeing burst as it landed with a thud and the pilot jammed on the brakes to halt at the end of the secondary runway of the defence airfield at 6-44 a.m. None of the passengers or the crew was hurt. The flight was coming to Chennai from Riyadh and Dahran. Earlier, the Air Force radar controller had spotted the civilian aircraft and asked the air traffic controllers at the Chennai airport to direct it away from the restricted zone. The Chennai airport replied that there was a problem with its radar and that it would instruct the Saudi pilot suitably. The Saudi jet, however, reappeared over the IAF area at a height of about 2000 feet. It disappeared even as another message was conveyed to the Chennai airport by the IAF, only to come in again for a landing proper. The pilot, Capt. Khayyat, ignored the "red signal'' cartridges fired in the air to signal refusal of permission to land. The passengers complained later that it was a five-hour ordeal for them, trapped inside the plane in the summer heat."
http://www.indiaserver.com/thehindu/...b01.htm#Story5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Damn, I just can't resist it... I have tried, but....
SYD the best in Australia?
LAX the best in America?
Whilst, I might not disagree - the use of the word 'best' alongside these countries raises a smile. I appreciate that someone has to be 'the best' in any particular country - but SYD is on a par with 'Halfpenny Green' in the UK and LAX - doesn't merit comparison with LHR.
My opinion only, of course, and it's as humble as yours!
Underdog
(And I'm not going to mention anything about handflying v servicable automatics at 800m)
SYD the best in Australia?
LAX the best in America?
Whilst, I might not disagree - the use of the word 'best' alongside these countries raises a smile. I appreciate that someone has to be 'the best' in any particular country - but SYD is on a par with 'Halfpenny Green' in the UK and LAX - doesn't merit comparison with LHR.
My opinion only, of course, and it's as humble as yours!
Underdog(And I'm not going to mention anything about handflying v servicable automatics at 800m)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Underdog---
Yes, and a good thing you didn't mention about hand flying with vis at 800 metres, that would indeed open up a WHOLE new can of worms.
If we look objectively at ATC services worldwide, i'm sure we could agree that these said services are "generally" not bad at all, except of course with the aforementioned African and South American regions.
To all ATC guys and gals.....thanks for the help!
Yes, and a good thing you didn't mention about hand flying with vis at 800 metres, that would indeed open up a WHOLE new can of worms.
If we look objectively at ATC services worldwide, i'm sure we could agree that these said services are "generally" not bad at all, except of course with the aforementioned African and South American regions.
To all ATC guys and gals.....thanks for the help!
