Irish law found to be in breach of EU directive
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Irish law found to be in breach of EU directive
From RTE News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0223/eu.html
Will this see the IAA finally come in line with CAA CAP371 on FTL's?
EU court rules Govt in breach of directive
23 February 2006 15:29
The European Court of Justice in Luxembourg has ruled that the Government is in breach of its obligation to introduce an EU directive governing working times for flight crew on airlines.
The directive, which should have become Irish law in 2003, specifies that flight crews should not work more than 2,000 hours a year.
The Government did not contest the case taken by the European Commission but submitted a draft statutory instrument to the court, which is subject to discussions with the aviation industry in Ireland.
23 February 2006 15:29
The European Court of Justice in Luxembourg has ruled that the Government is in breach of its obligation to introduce an EU directive governing working times for flight crew on airlines.
The directive, which should have become Irish law in 2003, specifies that flight crews should not work more than 2,000 hours a year.
The Government did not contest the case taken by the European Commission but submitted a draft statutory instrument to the court, which is subject to discussions with the aviation industry in Ireland.
Will this see the IAA finally come in line with CAA CAP371 on FTL's?
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Let's see. A ground based, Monday-Friday, non-shift worker, situated in a wonderfully airconditioned sea level oxygen office, with radio, telephone, internet and coffee machine, lunch breaks and regular rest breaks, with no major public safety related concerns can work an average of 40 hours per week. 52 weeks per year, less 4 weeks statutary holiday and 1 week for public holidays = 47 weeks duty x 40 = 1880hours. Flight crews, on the other hand, working in conditions opposite to all of the above can work upto 2000hrs. That is 3 weeks extra productivity. I wonder where the priorities lie with the rule makers?
The working directive of the early 90's has still never been implemented to compensate public transport workers. This little spat is but a drop in the ocean compared to what should have been introduced.
The working directive of the early 90's has still never been implemented to compensate public transport workers. This little spat is but a drop in the ocean compared to what should have been introduced.
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Correct Rat5 but they probably get paid 2 - 3 times less than the average Pilot, and the average Pilot will not reach those hours.
Phoenix Rising - These are not CAA CAP371 rules, just the Working Time Directive.
Phoenix Rising - These are not CAA CAP371 rules, just the Working Time Directive.
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Potential Earnings
I'm told I earn 150,000 a year.
I work 46 weeks a year.
I'm told I only work 18 hours a week.
Therefore I earn 181.15 per hour.
If the IAA persue this EU directive the logical conclusion is that there will be an ad in Flight for High Pay Pilots with potential earnings of:
181.15 x 2000 = 362,318
That makes sense Leo, doesn't it.
I work 46 weeks a year.
I'm told I only work 18 hours a week.
Therefore I earn 181.15 per hour.
If the IAA persue this EU directive the logical conclusion is that there will be an ad in Flight for High Pay Pilots with potential earnings of:
181.15 x 2000 = 362,318
That makes sense Leo, doesn't it.
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Mr. A.
A pleasure to hear from you again. It seems it is always a similar topic we discuss. I'm not sure what salary has to do with it. There are many such office bound yuppies, or other, who earn much more than the average pilot. And the average pilot not reaching this limit is an odd one. If it's an average, that suggests that some will. In this day of LoCo's maxing everyone out I am in no doubt that many, who do not consider themselves average, will reach this. There are well known cases in the 2 leading market players where Line Trainers reach 900 flight duty hours in well less than a year, then spend the rest of their year on the jump seat doing LC's, or in the office doing other duties. They are not allowed to take extra time off even though thney have produced their budgeted productivity. We all know that if the law allows it, the airlines will roster to the limits. No question. History proves it.
Meanwhile, all the best.
A pleasure to hear from you again. It seems it is always a similar topic we discuss. I'm not sure what salary has to do with it. There are many such office bound yuppies, or other, who earn much more than the average pilot. And the average pilot not reaching this limit is an odd one. If it's an average, that suggests that some will. In this day of LoCo's maxing everyone out I am in no doubt that many, who do not consider themselves average, will reach this. There are well known cases in the 2 leading market players where Line Trainers reach 900 flight duty hours in well less than a year, then spend the rest of their year on the jump seat doing LC's, or in the office doing other duties. They are not allowed to take extra time off even though thney have produced their budgeted productivity. We all know that if the law allows it, the airlines will roster to the limits. No question. History proves it.
Meanwhile, all the best.
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CAP 371 says "definition of crew member - refer to ANO" I can't find any definition of the status of a jumpseat line checker in the ANO. Anyone know?
If my company were to put me on line checks after I'd done 900 hours, I'd stop training before you could say "training backlog!"
As for office duties after 900 hours, I would be so incompetent, so anoying, so unproductive.....
If my company were to put me on line checks after I'd done 900 hours, I'd stop training before you could say "training backlog!"
As for office duties after 900 hours, I would be so incompetent, so anoying, so unproductive.....
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Article 155(1) of the ANO states that "Crew' means a member of the flight crew, a person carried on the flight deck who is appointed by the operator of the aircraft to give or to supervise the training, experience, practice and periodical tests required in respect of the flight crew under article 42(3) or a member of the cabin crew".
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Rat5,
The difference between the office worker and the crew member in your example is that the office worker will be in the office for the entire 1,880hrs per year. The crew member on the other hand could well be sat at home (or in bed) on standby for a part of their 2,000hrs. They could also spend a significant amount of time in the back of a taxi or coach which, although it is duty time, could not necessarily be considered productive duty time.
And yes, before anyone gets sarcastic, I'm sure that not all office based workers are productive for every single one of their 1,880 hours a year.
The 2,000 hour limit is an improvement over CAP371 as well. Before this was introduced a crew member could work during a year (in theory) 12 four week periods giving an annual limit of 2,340hrs for flight deck and 2,520hrs for the cabin crew.
The difference between the office worker and the crew member in your example is that the office worker will be in the office for the entire 1,880hrs per year. The crew member on the other hand could well be sat at home (or in bed) on standby for a part of their 2,000hrs. They could also spend a significant amount of time in the back of a taxi or coach which, although it is duty time, could not necessarily be considered productive duty time.
And yes, before anyone gets sarcastic, I'm sure that not all office based workers are productive for every single one of their 1,880 hours a year.
The 2,000 hour limit is an improvement over CAP371 as well. Before this was introduced a crew member could work during a year (in theory) 12 four week periods giving an annual limit of 2,340hrs for flight deck and 2,520hrs for the cabin crew.
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Cathar,
Thus a Line checker, on the jump seat, is not a member of the Flight Crew, and thus the duty is not "flight duty". It is a slight grey area in the UK ANO, and this document does not apply to other EU countries, and probably not the EI one. In UK it would cause an interesting struggle of conscience if a line checker was at 900 hours, or 100/28, and failed a crew member on the outbound sector. What then, ground the a/c on turn-round and await a relief crew? Good game.
Thus a Line checker, on the jump seat, is not a member of the Flight Crew, and thus the duty is not "flight duty". It is a slight grey area in the UK ANO, and this document does not apply to other EU countries, and probably not the EI one. In UK it would cause an interesting struggle of conscience if a line checker was at 900 hours, or 100/28, and failed a crew member on the outbound sector. What then, ground the a/c on turn-round and await a relief crew? Good game.
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The analogy of the office worker is a false one. We are limited to 2000hours a year. The office worker on an average 40 hour week may only do 1880 hours a year, but there is no upper limit (as far as I'm aware). I know several "office" workers doing 60-70+ hours in a week.
Strepsils, Office workers are governed by the working time directive but can opt out.
Office workers are entitled, by law, to 20 days holiday Including bank holidays.
So 48 x 48 gives 2304 without opting out of the WTD.
less 4 weeks statutary holiday and 1 week for public holidays
So 48 x 48 gives 2304 without opting out of the WTD.
Last edited by under_exposed; 6th Mar 2006 at 11:43.
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Strepsils,
Office workers come under the EU Working Time Directive which limits them to 48 hours per week. However, this is 48 hours per week averaged over 52 weeks. Employees may opt in or out of this as they see fit. However, if you opt in most employers require you to keep a personal record of your own hours, though interestingly they don't require you to log your hours if you opt out!
There is also a fondness for employers to insert subtle paragraphs such as
Try claiming overtime or time off in lieu when that little gem is in your contract!
Office workers come under the EU Working Time Directive which limits them to 48 hours per week. However, this is 48 hours per week averaged over 52 weeks. Employees may opt in or out of this as they see fit. However, if you opt in most employers require you to keep a personal record of your own hours, though interestingly they don't require you to log your hours if you opt out!
There is also a fondness for employers to insert subtle paragraphs such as
you may be required to work such additional hours as are necessary or appropriate from time to time to carry out your duties properly and effectively and such additional work will be without further renumeration.
