Ryan Air off the runway in AAR
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SASKATTOON .. no need to jump to conclusions! Let the investigation tell what happened instead of accusing beforehand that SOP's where breached. Calm down man! And the incident happend during turning on the runway after landing according to the AArhus airport website.
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Ah but, the metar may say BA poor but if the rwy was being swept then the crew may have been given a better value for the BA. In any account lets hope the IAA use the Reason model and look at the company culture as well as any crew actions that were involved in the incident.
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Given the general discussion including mention of braking action, what happens what ATC cannot give a braking action figure either verbally or on motne. At present we are forbidden from passing any figures or guide by SRG.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Originally Posted by HundredPercentPlease
STATEMENT
Flight FR712 from London Stansted .......... The aircraft suffered no damage and our engineers are on route to move the aircraft to the terminal building.
Flight FR712 from London Stansted .......... The aircraft suffered no damage and our engineers are on route to move the aircraft to the terminal building.
Aicraft on belly = damaged aircraft in my book.
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How do you know the a/c is on its belly? Can you see from these pictures or are you guessing? My guess is that it isnt, just sunken in snow. But then again Im no accident investigator!!
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Rather a big fib isnt it...?
And that was in a safety publication......
Management allways bend the truth to fit their agenda!
Thread Starter
Århus airport/AAR/EKAH is open again.
Looking at the picture, there is air between the ground and the belly, so probobly no damage to the underside of the aircraft.
Looking at the picture, there is air between the ground and the belly, so probobly no damage to the underside of the aircraft.
Those of you out there who keep quoting half-hourly Metars have obviously had little or no experience of operating in hostile winter weather conditions. The Metars are of little relevance as far as braking action is concerned except for planning purposes.
In my job I frequently find myself in the hold while the airport authority treats the runway and then comes up with the very latest braking action.
Those of you who do not really understand these things should understand that the braking action given is only accurate for the time at which it was taken. Five minutes later things could be totally different as I have ALMOST found to my cost in the past!
Who was it who said "there but for the grace of God go I"?
In my job I frequently find myself in the hold while the airport authority treats the runway and then comes up with the very latest braking action.
Those of you who do not really understand these things should understand that the braking action given is only accurate for the time at which it was taken. Five minutes later things could be totally different as I have ALMOST found to my cost in the past!
Who was it who said "there but for the grace of God go I"?
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Just out of interest, assuming the crew made an approach in good faith and they had the required preformance, what do you think will happen to them? Do you think this is enough to get the sack?
I feel nothing but sympathy but I'm just curious how an airline would treat this kind of incident??
Hufty.
I feel nothing but sympathy but I'm just curious how an airline would treat this kind of incident??
Hufty.
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An observation
An observation from accidents and incident reports related to landings at contaminated runways - contaminated with slush, snow or ice. (period - last ten years). The accident and incidents selected are those from landings at contaminated runways where the info from air temperature, dewpoint temperature and precipitation has been available.
Info given: air-/dew temperature, delta T and precipitation
Info given: air-/dew temperature, delta T and precipitation
- -1/1, 0, - SN
- -3/-3, 0, -SN
- -4/-4, 0, SN BLSN BR
- -1/-1, 0, +SN
- -1/-1, 0, -SN
- 0/0, 0, SN
- 0/0, 0, -DZFG
- -8/-8, 0, FG
- 0/0, 0, SNGR
- 0/-1, 1, SHSN
- -2/-3, 1, -FZDZ
- 1/0, 1, SHSN
- 1/0, 1, -SNRA
- -2/-3, 1, +SNGR
- 2/1, 1, -SHSN
- 0/-1, 1, -SN
- -1/-2, 1, -SN
- -9/-10, 1, -SN
- -1/-2, 1, -SN
- -5/-7, 2, -SN
- -2/-5, 2, -SN
- 2/-1, 3, -SN
- -3/-6, 3, SN
Paxing All Over The World
Do you think this is enough to get the sack?
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Relax PAXboy!
I don't know what a company will do in this instance that's all! I know one crew that went off and they were absolved from blame and kept their jobs. I'm not sure what the industry norm is though (I only have one data point) and as a pilot I am keen to know.
If you interpret this as a company or crew bashing thing then you either can't read or haven't taken the time to read and understand my post.
I don't know what a company will do in this instance that's all! I know one crew that went off and they were absolved from blame and kept their jobs. I'm not sure what the industry norm is though (I only have one data point) and as a pilot I am keen to know.
If you interpret this as a company or crew bashing thing then you either can't read or haven't taken the time to read and understand my post.
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Calm down JP, the last time i was in the hold over scandinavia and they were trying desperately to clear the runway they continuously updated the BA's for the runway.
Terrain Safe
Why are you not allowed to pass vital safety info to flight crew,? I can remember asking ATC for the crosswind component once and the said they wern't allowed to give it, yet in other parts of the world they are more than happy to.
Terrain Safe
Why are you not allowed to pass vital safety info to flight crew,? I can remember asking ATC for the crosswind component once and the said they wern't allowed to give it, yet in other parts of the world they are more than happy to.
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We in ATC aren't allowed to give BA reports as unfortunately our MATS 1 states that the figures from the equipment are unreliable on anything other than an iced over runway. So if any de-icing / anti-icing has taken place then we end up with a wet / slush contaminated runway which means we can't use the official braking action figures from the equipment.
We are however allowed to pass an "unofficial" estimate of the BA from pilots of landing traffic.
We are however allowed to pass an "unofficial" estimate of the BA from pilots of landing traffic.
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Radar 707,
Which means that some poor sucker is going to be the "guinea-pig".
However, I find it amazing, in the 21st century, that an airfield, licenced for international jet operations, (I assume yours is), does not have suitable equipment for the type of operations in use. Is it not the case that landing on ice covered runways is not allowed. I presume you mean ice patches etc etc.
Which means that some poor sucker is going to be the "guinea-pig".
However, I find it amazing, in the 21st century, that an airfield, licenced for international jet operations, (I assume yours is), does not have suitable equipment for the type of operations in use. Is it not the case that landing on ice covered runways is not allowed. I presume you mean ice patches etc etc.