Aircraft "off runway" in Stuttgart
ex-Tanker
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Backstick
Belgique,
Backstick works fine in many situations but if you try it before the wheels have spun up you will actually decrease the download, because you don't get the countering force from the brakes.
A firm touchdown is needed.
Having said that I made quite a few smooth TD on ice - but luckily had reversers.
FC.
Backstick works fine in many situations but if you try it before the wheels have spun up you will actually decrease the download, because you don't get the countering force from the brakes.
A firm touchdown is needed.
Having said that I made quite a few smooth TD on ice - but luckily had reversers.
FC.
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Reversers
Sure, reversers would have helped. After the aircraft has come to a complete stop, hit the reverse, back up to the runway and take the most convenient exit. Taxy to gate, apologise to passengers, report, go home, sure you'll have a better day tomorrow.
Then again, all I have is a drivers license and plans to get a PPL.
Glad everyone is ok.
Then again, all I have is a drivers license and plans to get a PPL.
Glad everyone is ok.
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Originally Posted by Gretchenfrage
And please spare us the song of how much more difficult it is to operate the regionals and how easy 320's and 737's are.
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Originally Posted by Gretchenfrage
And please spare us the song of how much more difficult it is to operate the regionals and how easy 320's and 737's are. Most of us have passed through the earlier stage and know. Everyone has to get their act together in whatever equippment, bad luck can't hit unilaterally just one category.
GF
GF
p.s. GF go grind that axe somewhere else! Perhaps you can ask Blick if they publish your ´expert opinion?´
p.p.s. Most regionals are not more difficult to operate. (although an engine failure on a turboprop is quite a bit more intense than on a jet) It´s the type of operation, multiple sector ultra short haul in a high performance aircraft, that poses the danger.
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Axe, no axe, who cares.
I just think that either these "no rev" planes should not operate in adverse conditions, or only on 5km runways, unless they have performance tables who deal with these conditions and should be adhered to.
I am pretty sure they have that!
There is actually no excuse for runway excursions if there is no technical glitch, i truly hope you might agree with that. Even if you encounter aquaplanning, slipping, late or soft touchdowns, there is the possibility of a go-around which should be taken. On more than 3km this is surely the far better option than any special cooking recipe like flap movement (in such a stress moment!), stick juggling or even rather stupid engine shut-downs.
GF
I just think that either these "no rev" planes should not operate in adverse conditions, or only on 5km runways, unless they have performance tables who deal with these conditions and should be adhered to.
I am pretty sure they have that!
There is actually no excuse for runway excursions if there is no technical glitch, i truly hope you might agree with that. Even if you encounter aquaplanning, slipping, late or soft touchdowns, there is the possibility of a go-around which should be taken. On more than 3km this is surely the far better option than any special cooking recipe like flap movement (in such a stress moment!), stick juggling or even rather stupid engine shut-downs.
GF
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Ditto Saab 2000 Driver.
The reversers on the 737 (and presumably on the 320) make soo much difference when it comes to conditions where the book places one in the safe zone (wt. vs factored rwy length vs rwy conditions) and yet one still doesn't slow down.
EDDL R23R on a rainy day with gusty weather and a dash of tailwind at max permitted landing load from the charts (no reversers) would be such an European example. The landing perf. charts allow landing but the rwy with all that muck on the touchdown zone has a different opinion (sometimes).
P.S. From my experience, I'd take a 737 (apart from the 100 & 200s) any day over a E145 from ease of operations, although the all glass EFISs on the E145 is sweet.
The reversers on the 737 (and presumably on the 320) make soo much difference when it comes to conditions where the book places one in the safe zone (wt. vs factored rwy length vs rwy conditions) and yet one still doesn't slow down.
EDDL R23R on a rainy day with gusty weather and a dash of tailwind at max permitted landing load from the charts (no reversers) would be such an European example. The landing perf. charts allow landing but the rwy with all that muck on the touchdown zone has a different opinion (sometimes).
P.S. From my experience, I'd take a 737 (apart from the 100 & 200s) any day over a E145 from ease of operations, although the all glass EFISs on the E145 is sweet.
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Aircraft types
yeah, something definitley went wrong, what exactly, the investigation will find out, no reason to speculate. However, interesting another (ex) Crossair plane, how many incidents did we see lately. Howeversome aircraft are not as well designed as a Boeing or even an Airbus causing some tricky problems in difficult conditions.
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in reference to the BACX HAJ incident,the aircraft landed further down he runway than it should have but this would have still left ample room to stop had it been a firmer touchdown or normal conditions
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Stuck_In_ATR said
"I suppose there must be something something wrong in the antiskid logic"
Absolutely right. This Skoda of the skies is a total pig in less than perfect conditions and it never ceases to amaze how on even the driest of days the anti skid chatters away like a demented monkey. (I only have three thousand hours on type.....so what do I know....before anyone asks)
This Ac was designed for unlimited long American runways where performance is an academic subject you leave behind after groundschool.
Bean Counters Nul points. Again.
"I suppose there must be something something wrong in the antiskid logic"
Absolutely right. This Skoda of the skies is a total pig in less than perfect conditions and it never ceases to amaze how on even the driest of days the anti skid chatters away like a demented monkey. (I only have three thousand hours on type.....so what do I know....before anyone asks)
This Ac was designed for unlimited long American runways where performance is an academic subject you leave behind after groundschool.
Bean Counters Nul points. Again.
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Who wrote anything about regional jets being harder to fly than 320s or 737s Gretchen? I absolutely agree with you that there is no excuse for overruning a runway if you don't experience any problem. And you're right too when you write that all aircrafts must meet specific landing performance, that's all obvious. However, going around after you experience aquaplanning? The few times I've started slipping on an icy rwy, the last thing I wanted to do was to go full thrust with the nose of the aircraft pointing at the wrong direction and me struggling to bring it back in alignment with the runway.
Finally, this post is turning into a stupid Crossair-Swissair battle, don't you guys think this **** is getting a bit old? It certainly doesn't bring any regrets to my decision of leaving this joke of an airline.
Finally, this post is turning into a stupid Crossair-Swissair battle, don't you guys think this **** is getting a bit old? It certainly doesn't bring any regrets to my decision of leaving this joke of an airline.
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The problem with the Embraer when landing is that it is speed critical. Even if you are only a few knots above Vref, it has a tendency to float, which gives you a lovely soft landing, but the spoilers wont deploy, which subsequently, makes it far more likely to aquaplane. You can greatly improve the situation by being at Vref at the right place (30-50ft), closing the thrust levers and ensuring a good positive touchdown. I have 3000hours on this aircraft and this works. especially at places like CDG, FRA or MUC when it is chucking it down with rain. Going for that illusive "smooth" landing in this aircraft is not a good idea!!!
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Altyre
With threads getting posted and then removed, some reference i made looks silly, i know. And the old battle you are refering to is not usefull, i agree. The problem is that repeated incidents should not be overlooked and excused, just because there has been some differencies. I stated on another thread: Incidents should be dealt with so as to come to a rate that at least equals the comparable industry. That was and will continue to be my criticism. As long as the too many happenings are explained with new and different training measures, "other" instructors, different sop's, different equippment, lost "...." spirit and so on, you will never get to grounds with the real problem. Many ex-CRX pilots fly for other companies on all kind of equippment. Do you think these guys would have passed any glitch by giving the same excuses? Face and tackle the shortcomings, then the whole company will enjoy a better record.
As to the 145, i don't know this aircraft. All i know is that all of the aircraft i have flown had any kind of shortcoming, on landings and other flight phases. You just have to cope with them!!
By the way: On bigger equippment the landing performance/distance is calculated without reversers, even having them fitted. That means we could land without them on the same runways. I admit that concerning contamination (i.e. ice) the gain is given with approx. 18%. This does help in a tight case.
GF
With threads getting posted and then removed, some reference i made looks silly, i know. And the old battle you are refering to is not usefull, i agree. The problem is that repeated incidents should not be overlooked and excused, just because there has been some differencies. I stated on another thread: Incidents should be dealt with so as to come to a rate that at least equals the comparable industry. That was and will continue to be my criticism. As long as the too many happenings are explained with new and different training measures, "other" instructors, different sop's, different equippment, lost "...." spirit and so on, you will never get to grounds with the real problem. Many ex-CRX pilots fly for other companies on all kind of equippment. Do you think these guys would have passed any glitch by giving the same excuses? Face and tackle the shortcomings, then the whole company will enjoy a better record.
As to the 145, i don't know this aircraft. All i know is that all of the aircraft i have flown had any kind of shortcoming, on landings and other flight phases. You just have to cope with them!!
By the way: On bigger equippment the landing performance/distance is calculated without reversers, even having them fitted. That means we could land without them on the same runways. I admit that concerning contamination (i.e. ice) the gain is given with approx. 18%. This does help in a tight case.
GF
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Gretchenfrage
-------------------
Quote:
By the way: On bigger equippment the landing performance/distance is calculated without reversers, even having them fitted. That means we could land without them on the same runways. I admit that concerning contamination (i.e. ice) the gain is given with approx. 18%. This does help in a tight case.
---------------
Hi Gretchenfrage,
I'm former (only) regional-Crossairpilot.
For your information, all JAR/FAR part 25 aircraft landing performance
is calculated without reverses.
JAR/FAR 25: A320,737,747,757,767...,318,319,321,SB20,E145..... ...
I was a Captain on the E145 after I have left Swiss as a SFO.
Operating now A319/320/321 for the most Successful European flagcarier!
---------------------------------
Quote(GF):
And please spare us the song of how much more difficult it is to operate the regionals and how easy 320's and 737's are. Most of us have passed through the earlier stage and know. Everyone has to get their act together in whatever equippment, bad luck can't hit unilaterally just one category.
-----------------------------
I think your posting is antisocial! I would guess you are a former
Swissair pilot. If not, I don't know what’s your problem.
Now, operating an Embraer is a pleasure, but it’s got its "hidden" problems.
Brakes are a real problem.
I don’t know for which airline you are flying for, but for me for
the 3 airlines I have worked so far, we used all information
about incidents and accidents to improve safety.
Gretechenfrage you are a disgrace for the airline society!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really feel sorry for my former-working mates to get postings like this.
I hope the flight deck-crew and cabin-crew Of the EMB in Stuttgart is all right!
Gretchenfrage pls use your brain in the future before you post!!!!!!!
Quote:
By the way: On bigger equippment the landing performance/distance is calculated without reversers, even having them fitted. That means we could land without them on the same runways. I admit that concerning contamination (i.e. ice) the gain is given with approx. 18%. This does help in a tight case.
---------------
Hi Gretchenfrage,
I'm former (only) regional-Crossairpilot.
For your information, all JAR/FAR part 25 aircraft landing performance
is calculated without reverses.
JAR/FAR 25: A320,737,747,757,767...,318,319,321,SB20,E145..... ...
I was a Captain on the E145 after I have left Swiss as a SFO.
Operating now A319/320/321 for the most Successful European flagcarier!
---------------------------------
Quote(GF):
And please spare us the song of how much more difficult it is to operate the regionals and how easy 320's and 737's are. Most of us have passed through the earlier stage and know. Everyone has to get their act together in whatever equippment, bad luck can't hit unilaterally just one category.
-----------------------------
I think your posting is antisocial! I would guess you are a former
Swissair pilot. If not, I don't know what’s your problem.
Now, operating an Embraer is a pleasure, but it’s got its "hidden" problems.
Brakes are a real problem.
I don’t know for which airline you are flying for, but for me for
the 3 airlines I have worked so far, we used all information
about incidents and accidents to improve safety.
Gretechenfrage you are a disgrace for the airline society!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really feel sorry for my former-working mates to get postings like this.
I hope the flight deck-crew and cabin-crew Of the EMB in Stuttgart is all right!
Gretchenfrage pls use your brain in the future before you post!!!!!!!
Last edited by 320push-n-puller; 31st Jan 2006 at 06:05.
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320pp
Please use a dictionary before you post. I had a hard time reading yours. I always thought to become a airline pilot you need to be able to understand, read and write in English.
First of all congratulations to your career. But you still seem to have the problem I adressed earlier: Instead of getting to the root of accumulated incidents, you bash others pointing at it.
You might be right in a lot of statements, but if you pretend that Crossair used all information to increase safety - please!!!!!
Allthough I have never operated the nice planes you do, I insist on my point of view that a true airline pilot has to deal with the shortcomings of his aircraft or stop operating it. He cannot screw up and use such glitches as excuse.GF
Please use a dictionary before you post. I had a hard time reading yours. I always thought to become a airline pilot you need to be able to understand, read and write in English.
First of all congratulations to your career. But you still seem to have the problem I adressed earlier: Instead of getting to the root of accumulated incidents, you bash others pointing at it.
You might be right in a lot of statements, but if you pretend that Crossair used all information to increase safety - please!!!!!
Allthough I have never operated the nice planes you do, I insist on my point of view that a true airline pilot has to deal with the shortcomings of his aircraft or stop operating it. He cannot screw up and use such glitches as excuse.GF
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`???????????
Hi GF,
I don’t want to change the subject to a Swissair – Crossair battle.
However, …….
Quote:
You might be right in a lot of statements, but if you pretend that Crossair used all information to increase safety - please!!!!!
I didn’t exactly said that. You were mentioning my English skills, ok no props, I can live with your critics.
But I’m a bit concerned about you; I hope you are not a pilot!
So I take some time to explain to non-professionals how and why incidents and accidents happen.
If there is an event, there is usually a chain of problems. It’s very unlikely an accident happens because of one problem.
That is known to airlines, so airlines try to make sure to cover all aspects.
Airlines implement engineering procedures to reduce technical problems. Training for pilots is always changed to the latest standard.
Now if there’s an accident, authorities analyse why it happened to use the outcome to improve safety.
Air France had recently bad luck. Now rating safety standards only by counting accidents doesn’t work.
Air France is great company (I Don’t work for them), but unfortunately this company had recent accidents. There is no way to say Air France is unprofessional. I have a great respect for this company and I feel very sorry for them.
But if I would say Air France is unprofessional because of these events that would be anty social and a disgrace!!!!
The Swissair MD11 crash is a good example how smoke procedures in all airlines have changed. Nobody was pointing the fingers on Swissair pilots because of this accident.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I was working for different airlines.
I was never Crossair minded, and I fully agree there were problems in the company.
Working for Crossair was always sort of working for a second-class unprofessional airline.
I don’t have to explain why; Swissair pilots were always very good in propaganda.
Now, after all I think it’s sad; I started to believe this non-sense.
Anyway, after I have left Crossair/Swiss, I went working for another regional company.
I had the experience like all other former Crossair pilots.
I mentioned before I was never Crossair minded, I was not happy in the company,
However, working now for a flag carrier (profitable, not like Swiss), thinking back about the proffesionalitly of Crossair, it is unbelievable that a regional airline can have such high savety standards.
If you GF point your fingers on every Crossair event, I can only hope you are not a pilot.
Rating safety standards is not easy as I mentioned before. I think Swissair is one of the most professional flag carrier, but why did the MD11 crash? That was bad luck and yet again the whole chain of events made it happen.
Coming back to the RWY overrun in Stuttgart.
Ive had a similar problem on the on my last days on the embraer.
I was landing on a short RWY reported wet. I didn’t have any braking at all after touchdown.
The reason for that was the WX report was wrong, it wasn’t wet, it was standing water.
I was lucky, but I could have overrun. Did this happen because I’m a former Crossair pilot?
Anyway, if I would have done a landing in Stuttgart on the Airbus on the same day,
I would have briefed for medium auto brakes and full reverse.
Everybody who flies an Airbus knows this would have been a “non event” landing.
However, on the Embrear you can only check landing performance and do the landing…
There is one thing I have to ask. Why do Swissair pilots use accidents as propaganda against another airlines? I think that is unique and still unexplainable,
I have never heard any pilot union saying to a western airline, you are unprofessional and a safety risk because of an incident.
Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this.
I am Swiss national, I’m used the this disgrace, but can anybody else understand what is happening??????????????
I don’t want to change the subject to a Swissair – Crossair battle.
However, …….
Quote:
You might be right in a lot of statements, but if you pretend that Crossair used all information to increase safety - please!!!!!
I didn’t exactly said that. You were mentioning my English skills, ok no props, I can live with your critics.
But I’m a bit concerned about you; I hope you are not a pilot!
So I take some time to explain to non-professionals how and why incidents and accidents happen.
If there is an event, there is usually a chain of problems. It’s very unlikely an accident happens because of one problem.
That is known to airlines, so airlines try to make sure to cover all aspects.
Airlines implement engineering procedures to reduce technical problems. Training for pilots is always changed to the latest standard.
Now if there’s an accident, authorities analyse why it happened to use the outcome to improve safety.
Air France had recently bad luck. Now rating safety standards only by counting accidents doesn’t work.
Air France is great company (I Don’t work for them), but unfortunately this company had recent accidents. There is no way to say Air France is unprofessional. I have a great respect for this company and I feel very sorry for them.
But if I would say Air France is unprofessional because of these events that would be anty social and a disgrace!!!!
The Swissair MD11 crash is a good example how smoke procedures in all airlines have changed. Nobody was pointing the fingers on Swissair pilots because of this accident.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I was working for different airlines.
I was never Crossair minded, and I fully agree there were problems in the company.
Working for Crossair was always sort of working for a second-class unprofessional airline.
I don’t have to explain why; Swissair pilots were always very good in propaganda.
Now, after all I think it’s sad; I started to believe this non-sense.
Anyway, after I have left Crossair/Swiss, I went working for another regional company.
I had the experience like all other former Crossair pilots.
I mentioned before I was never Crossair minded, I was not happy in the company,
However, working now for a flag carrier (profitable, not like Swiss), thinking back about the proffesionalitly of Crossair, it is unbelievable that a regional airline can have such high savety standards.
If you GF point your fingers on every Crossair event, I can only hope you are not a pilot.
Rating safety standards is not easy as I mentioned before. I think Swissair is one of the most professional flag carrier, but why did the MD11 crash? That was bad luck and yet again the whole chain of events made it happen.
Coming back to the RWY overrun in Stuttgart.
Ive had a similar problem on the on my last days on the embraer.
I was landing on a short RWY reported wet. I didn’t have any braking at all after touchdown.
The reason for that was the WX report was wrong, it wasn’t wet, it was standing water.
I was lucky, but I could have overrun. Did this happen because I’m a former Crossair pilot?
Anyway, if I would have done a landing in Stuttgart on the Airbus on the same day,
I would have briefed for medium auto brakes and full reverse.
Everybody who flies an Airbus knows this would have been a “non event” landing.
However, on the Embrear you can only check landing performance and do the landing…
There is one thing I have to ask. Why do Swissair pilots use accidents as propaganda against another airlines? I think that is unique and still unexplainable,
I have never heard any pilot union saying to a western airline, you are unprofessional and a safety risk because of an incident.
Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this.
I am Swiss national, I’m used the this disgrace, but can anybody else understand what is happening??????????????
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Actually I am a pilot, this might frustrate you. I couldn't care less for ex-CRX, however the fate of Swiss somewhat gets to my wallet aswell, therefore I am interested in smooth operations throughout the whole company. I try to analyse incidents in a unbiased way. Mine and others. Thus let me repeat: I criticise the attitude of not going for the root of a cause, rather diverting from it by pointing at outside influence as excuse. This gets us nowhere.
You state: “Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this.“
This is exactly what I meant above. It makes believe that pilots met the requirements, but have been sacked due to provenance and accuses the other pilot body of unfair lobbying. This statement insults all the involved professional pilots and instructors and puts up political pressure to maybe retain pilots with marginal qualifications. Do you have any kind of proof for your statement?
I don’t mean to insult anybody just trying to make a point. Sorry for my unnecessary comment on spelling, that was stupid.
GF
You state: “Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this.“
This is exactly what I meant above. It makes believe that pilots met the requirements, but have been sacked due to provenance and accuses the other pilot body of unfair lobbying. This statement insults all the involved professional pilots and instructors and puts up political pressure to maybe retain pilots with marginal qualifications. Do you have any kind of proof for your statement?
I don’t mean to insult anybody just trying to make a point. Sorry for my unnecessary comment on spelling, that was stupid.
GF
Last edited by Gretchenfrage; 31st Jan 2006 at 12:52.
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Swissair Genocide
--------------------------------------
Quote: (GF)
“I try to analyse incidents in a unbiased way. Mine and others. Thus let me repeat: I criticise the attitude of not going for the root of a cause, rather diverting from it by pointing at outside influence as excuse. This gets us nowhere.”
---------------------------------------
You have no details about the incident, you don’t know the aircraft, the “Bundestelle für Flugunfalluntersuchungen” ( “German NTSB” ) has not issued a report yet.
Now you are saying : “I try to analyse incidents in a unbiased way”????????
Are you some sort of muppet or clown?
-------------------------------
Quote: (GF)
“I criticise the attitude of not going for the root of a cause, rather diverting from it by pointing at outside influence as excuse”.
--------------------------------
Who does that? How can you go to the root of a cause?
By having an investigation which takes place right now!
Maybe you should apply in Germany for a job to investigate accidents, the Germans can save money because of your superior ability to judge about accidents without knowing what has happened!!!
------------------------------------------
Quote: (GF)
You state: “Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this.“
This is exactly what I meant above. It makes believe that pilots met the requirements, but have been sacked due to provenance and accuses the other pilot body of unfair lobbying. This statement insults all the involved professional pilots and instructors and puts up political pressure to maybe retain pilots with marginal qualifications. Do you have any kind of proof for your statement?
----------------------------------
I am an instructor and I know it is quite easy to influence an instruction or checkride if you want to.
Can you explain me why the Crossair pilots who came across to the Airbus for SS (SwissSun, hope nobody gets any parallels to other “parties” like Aeropers,
) had more than half a year for the training after having an “Swissair” assessment? And even lots failed?
(I had less than 2 months for the Airbus transition, the training for the other regional planes I have flown usually took about 3 months and were more stressful.)
Now by saying “Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this“ I didn’t exactly meant what you said.
I fully agree with you, there should never be any compromise in qualification, if somebody is not appropriate for a flying post, she/he should be sacked immediately.
I flown for different companies, I mentioned Crossair is absolutely professional.
I said that because I have got comparison to other companies, because I worked for them!
If you still think former Crossair workforce is unprofessional, then I think I lost all my hopes.
If you were right, then 80% of all European regional carriers have to be closed down.
Can you explain me why only Crossair pilots got screened? Why weren’t the Swissair pilots
Screened. Is it again because of the accidents? How about Swissair ? I mentioned before I will not judge about accidents and I will not accuse any airline of being unprofessional because of accidents. I know you Swissair guys try to keep your incidents quiet and you have no shame to point on others!
By saying Crossair is absolutely professional, I don’t exaggerate, I said before I was unhappy flying for crossair, there were issues in the company, I agree.
But I guess you are bright enough not to say Swiss(Air) has no issues !
I meant with “mobbed out” basically the Swissair/Aeropers propaganda campaign to the Swiss public and the politician. After all you succeeded, everybody believed you, Regional routes are not profitable.
But now the time has come, you are Swissair again, no money from the government any more, no Crossair who brings money into the company.
I think accusing other airlines about accidents is a taboo, Aeropers are the only superior guys who have no shame to accuse other airlines to be unprofessional.
But, competition is no taboo, I’m looking forward when you guys get sacked by Lufthansa, or do you still believe by selling tickets for free and having high load factors is satisfactory?
Quote: (GF)
“ I shouln’t care less for ex-CRX, however the fate of Swiss somewhat gets to my wallet aswell”.
So the good old Swissair fate: Money. Now I don’t think an awful lot will understand your
Believing. If you are right and these Crossair incidents are avoidable, is money the only thing you care? How about human lives?
No further comment
Quote: (GF)
“I try to analyse incidents in a unbiased way. Mine and others. Thus let me repeat: I criticise the attitude of not going for the root of a cause, rather diverting from it by pointing at outside influence as excuse. This gets us nowhere.”
---------------------------------------
You have no details about the incident, you don’t know the aircraft, the “Bundestelle für Flugunfalluntersuchungen” ( “German NTSB” ) has not issued a report yet.
Now you are saying : “I try to analyse incidents in a unbiased way”????????
Are you some sort of muppet or clown?
-------------------------------
Quote: (GF)
“I criticise the attitude of not going for the root of a cause, rather diverting from it by pointing at outside influence as excuse”.
--------------------------------
Who does that? How can you go to the root of a cause?
By having an investigation which takes place right now!
Maybe you should apply in Germany for a job to investigate accidents, the Germans can save money because of your superior ability to judge about accidents without knowing what has happened!!!
------------------------------------------
Quote: (GF)
You state: “Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this.“
This is exactly what I meant above. It makes believe that pilots met the requirements, but have been sacked due to provenance and accuses the other pilot body of unfair lobbying. This statement insults all the involved professional pilots and instructors and puts up political pressure to maybe retain pilots with marginal qualifications. Do you have any kind of proof for your statement?
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I am an instructor and I know it is quite easy to influence an instruction or checkride if you want to.
Can you explain me why the Crossair pilots who came across to the Airbus for SS (SwissSun, hope nobody gets any parallels to other “parties” like Aeropers,
) had more than half a year for the training after having an “Swissair” assessment? And even lots failed?(I had less than 2 months for the Airbus transition, the training for the other regional planes I have flown usually took about 3 months and were more stressful.)
Now by saying “Crossair pilots were mobbed out of Swiss like this“ I didn’t exactly meant what you said.
I fully agree with you, there should never be any compromise in qualification, if somebody is not appropriate for a flying post, she/he should be sacked immediately.
I flown for different companies, I mentioned Crossair is absolutely professional.
I said that because I have got comparison to other companies, because I worked for them!
If you still think former Crossair workforce is unprofessional, then I think I lost all my hopes.
If you were right, then 80% of all European regional carriers have to be closed down.
Can you explain me why only Crossair pilots got screened? Why weren’t the Swissair pilots
Screened. Is it again because of the accidents? How about Swissair ? I mentioned before I will not judge about accidents and I will not accuse any airline of being unprofessional because of accidents. I know you Swissair guys try to keep your incidents quiet and you have no shame to point on others!
By saying Crossair is absolutely professional, I don’t exaggerate, I said before I was unhappy flying for crossair, there were issues in the company, I agree.
But I guess you are bright enough not to say Swiss(Air) has no issues !
I meant with “mobbed out” basically the Swissair/Aeropers propaganda campaign to the Swiss public and the politician. After all you succeeded, everybody believed you, Regional routes are not profitable.
But now the time has come, you are Swissair again, no money from the government any more, no Crossair who brings money into the company.
I think accusing other airlines about accidents is a taboo, Aeropers are the only superior guys who have no shame to accuse other airlines to be unprofessional.
But, competition is no taboo, I’m looking forward when you guys get sacked by Lufthansa, or do you still believe by selling tickets for free and having high load factors is satisfactory?
Quote: (GF)
“ I shouln’t care less for ex-CRX, however the fate of Swiss somewhat gets to my wallet aswell”.
So the good old Swissair fate: Money. Now I don’t think an awful lot will understand your
Believing. If you are right and these Crossair incidents are avoidable, is money the only thing you care? How about human lives?
No further comment
ex-Tanker
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We are the champions... ach ja!
Ladies please!
Let's not get holier than thou about this. About four years ago, I recommended 4 Swissair Captains for direct entry to easyJet. One didn't attend the interview. One failed the interview. One passed the interview but didn't turn up for the course. One failed the course.
After that I didn't recommend any more.
As for aircraft off runways, or on runways but at the wrong field - well we have had some of that too haven't we?
Nice people - flew for em for 25 years but that champions attitude wasn't good.
FC.
Let's not get holier than thou about this. About four years ago, I recommended 4 Swissair Captains for direct entry to easyJet. One didn't attend the interview. One failed the interview. One passed the interview but didn't turn up for the course. One failed the course.
After that I didn't recommend any more.
As for aircraft off runways, or on runways but at the wrong field - well we have had some of that too haven't we?
Nice people - flew for em for 25 years but that champions attitude wasn't good.
FC.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Thanks Few Cloudy!
At last a few sensible words and remarks. Also, having worked slightly more than quarter of a century for both fields, I can only concur.
To the moderator: considering all that has been written the last few years on PPRune about Pilotinos vs Astronauts, why not open a new forum, suggested title: the never ending Swiss battle
At last a few sensible words and remarks. Also, having worked slightly more than quarter of a century for both fields, I can only concur.
To the moderator: considering all that has been written the last few years on PPRune about Pilotinos vs Astronauts, why not open a new forum, suggested title: the never ending Swiss battle