Ryanair B738 loss of situational awareness and terrain clearance 07/09/05
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Not that I would expect anything else, as your previous posts mark you out as an unquestioning FR groupie
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Consistent with other internal reports??
Do Ryanair internal reports normally contain reference to F.D.M. information such as RA. Or is this Base Investigation report unique?
In the context of this report what is "unsafe altitude"?
Did the F/O intervene as a professional or as a matter of survival?
Finally, what happened in Beauvais?
In the context of this report what is "unsafe altitude"?
Did the F/O intervene as a professional or as a matter of survival?
Finally, what happened in Beauvais?
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EI-CFC,
That seem to be the way it goes around these parts. It appears you have to be an extremist or face being denounced. On the one side you have LHC who seems to:
- have sworn to Ryanair as some type of fundamentalist religion
- live in a parallel universe with its own case histories and facts
- believes IALPA is in fact the representative of Satan on Earth
- have never answered a question put to him on pprune
- have swallowed a very cheap dictionary
And on the other hand you have the rabid anti-Ryanair lot who often do their case no favours as they either:
- keep predicting the downfall of a certain Mr. OLeary (who will in fact only go by his or Tony Ryan's choosing).
- think the Irish government are going to make union recognition compulsory in Ryanair (Warning - low flying pig).
- think the investor community gives a rats behind about anything other than the bottom line.
- can't spell or type to save their lives.
Reasoned debate when it comes to this company is sadly lacking. Funny that.
That seem to be the way it goes around these parts. It appears you have to be an extremist or face being denounced. On the one side you have LHC who seems to:
- have sworn to Ryanair as some type of fundamentalist religion
- live in a parallel universe with its own case histories and facts
- believes IALPA is in fact the representative of Satan on Earth
- have never answered a question put to him on pprune
- have swallowed a very cheap dictionary
And on the other hand you have the rabid anti-Ryanair lot who often do their case no favours as they either:
- keep predicting the downfall of a certain Mr. OLeary (who will in fact only go by his or Tony Ryan's choosing).
- think the Irish government are going to make union recognition compulsory in Ryanair (Warning - low flying pig).
- think the investor community gives a rats behind about anything other than the bottom line.
- can't spell or type to save their lives.
Reasoned debate when it comes to this company is sadly lacking. Funny that.
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JUDGE WHYTE,
To answer your question regarding Beauvais, it appears a non precision approach went very wrong.An inbound FR 800 was kept high due to opposite direction traffic.When clear of the traffic ATC cleared the 800 for the approach.Rather than enter the hold and lose the height they accepted the straight in approach and when it became evident that they were not in a position to complete a safe landing, instead of initiating a go-around they elected to carry out a descending orbit on short finals. When they rolled out of the orbit they were way off the centre line at approx 150ft agl. A missed approach was initiated and a/c overflew terminal at very low altitude (not part of missed approach procedure, needless to say). If I remember correctly, Capt was a contractor and was fired,not sure about F/O.
To answer your question regarding Beauvais, it appears a non precision approach went very wrong.An inbound FR 800 was kept high due to opposite direction traffic.When clear of the traffic ATC cleared the 800 for the approach.Rather than enter the hold and lose the height they accepted the straight in approach and when it became evident that they were not in a position to complete a safe landing, instead of initiating a go-around they elected to carry out a descending orbit on short finals. When they rolled out of the orbit they were way off the centre line at approx 150ft agl. A missed approach was initiated and a/c overflew terminal at very low altitude (not part of missed approach procedure, needless to say). If I remember correctly, Capt was a contractor and was fired,not sure about F/O.
Italian Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (ANSV) news release:
http://www.ansv.it/It/Detail.asp?ID=573
(In Italian)
Inconveniente grave Boeing 737 irlandese
L’Agenzia nazionale per la sicurezza del volo (ANSV), informa che, sulla base delle prime evidenze raccolte, ha aperto l’inchiesta tecnica sull’inconveniente grave occorso in data 7 settembre 2005 all’aeromobile B737-800, marche EI-DAV, che operava il volo FR 9672 da Niederrhein (Germania) all’aeroporto romano di Ciampino.
L’aeromobile, con 171 persone a bordo - di cui cinque di equipaggio - ha dirottato sull’aeroporto di Roma Fiumicino a causa delle avverse condizioni meteo sull’aeroporto di destinazione, per poi rinunciare all’avvicinamento e dirottare definitivamente sull’aeroporto di Pescara.
L’Agenzia, informata solo recentemente dell’evento dalla omologa Autorità investigativa irlandese, sta provvedendo alla raccolta delle ulteriori evidenze tecniche necessarie per le valutazioni di competenza che riguardano, particolarmente, l’ultima fase di volo.
Translation:
01/26/06
Serious incident - Irish Boeing 737
The Italian Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (ANSV) informs that, basing on preliminary evidence, it has opened an investigation on the serious incident that involved a B737-800, registered as EI-DAV, during flight FR 9672 from Weeze-Niederrhein (Germany) to Rome-Ciampino on September 7th, 2005.
The aircraft, with 171 souls on board (including crew of 5), diverted to Rome-Fiumicino airport because of the weather conditions on the destination airport. After a missed approach at Rome-Fiumicino, the aircraft finally diverted to Pescara.
The ANSV has been only recently informed about the event by the Irish AAIU and now it is gathering further useful information for the investigation, which will focus on the last part of the flight.
http://www.ansv.it/It/Detail.asp?ID=573
(In Italian)
Inconveniente grave Boeing 737 irlandese
L’Agenzia nazionale per la sicurezza del volo (ANSV), informa che, sulla base delle prime evidenze raccolte, ha aperto l’inchiesta tecnica sull’inconveniente grave occorso in data 7 settembre 2005 all’aeromobile B737-800, marche EI-DAV, che operava il volo FR 9672 da Niederrhein (Germania) all’aeroporto romano di Ciampino.
L’aeromobile, con 171 persone a bordo - di cui cinque di equipaggio - ha dirottato sull’aeroporto di Roma Fiumicino a causa delle avverse condizioni meteo sull’aeroporto di destinazione, per poi rinunciare all’avvicinamento e dirottare definitivamente sull’aeroporto di Pescara.
L’Agenzia, informata solo recentemente dell’evento dalla omologa Autorità investigativa irlandese, sta provvedendo alla raccolta delle ulteriori evidenze tecniche necessarie per le valutazioni di competenza che riguardano, particolarmente, l’ultima fase di volo.
Translation:
01/26/06
Serious incident - Irish Boeing 737
The Italian Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (ANSV) informs that, basing on preliminary evidence, it has opened an investigation on the serious incident that involved a B737-800, registered as EI-DAV, during flight FR 9672 from Weeze-Niederrhein (Germany) to Rome-Ciampino on September 7th, 2005.
The aircraft, with 171 souls on board (including crew of 5), diverted to Rome-Fiumicino airport because of the weather conditions on the destination airport. After a missed approach at Rome-Fiumicino, the aircraft finally diverted to Pescara.
The ANSV has been only recently informed about the event by the Irish AAIU and now it is gathering further useful information for the investigation, which will focus on the last part of the flight.
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Originally Posted by Thrush
Seems the F/O did what he was paid for. Well done to a low timer.
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SNAM you have said something quite emphatic. Have you read the BI as published on Crewdock, or are your relying on other information? If you have read the report, then what does the relevant section refer to?
I accept that bereavement is not mentioned explicitly - but that he should not have been flying is clearly established. Are you agreed? And why did Ryanair then re-emphasise certain policies?
I accept that bereavement is not mentioned explicitly - but that he should not have been flying is clearly established. Are you agreed? And why did Ryanair then re-emphasise certain policies?
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SNAM you seem to relying entirely on what a source "told you" - and not only that, but that source works for an organisation that has by their own admission yet to see any definitive information. The one other "fact" you produce, which is to claim that an incapacitation occurred, is itself highly disputable. If I recall correctly, the BI refers to "a sort of incapacitation", which almost certainly refers to a state that a human factors expert would probably describe differently.
You stated what was "told" to you as if it was a FACT. It does not look like anything approaching a fact to me.
You stated what was "told" to you as if it was a FACT. It does not look like anything approaching a fact to me.
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The official Ryanair Base Investigation Draft Report states that the captain had very recently suffered a major personal traumatic event in his private life which he failed to disclose to Ryanair, and had decided to return to work a short period following the event.
PP
PP
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SNAM it must be they way you assert things that just gives me the pip. The evidence that you are probably wrong is substantial - but still you keep making what seem to me to be very assertive statements - like this one:
Apparently the fact that YOU spoke to somebody is enough to EMPHATICALLY state this as a fact: Not a single word of qualification, not a single caveat. Such confidence! Such a lack of supporting argument!!
The reason for that incapacitation is the mystery that the Authorities are trying to solve at the moment.
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
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Originally Posted by SNAM
I understand your memo.
The point is that I know very well the F/O (a very nice Dutch bloke) who was in that aircraft, who flew with that captain for that duty day, and he confirmed me quite a few things.
SNAM
The point is that I know very well the F/O (a very nice Dutch bloke) who was in that aircraft, who flew with that captain for that duty day, and he confirmed me quite a few things.
SNAM
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Chaps, put your toys away now there's good boys 
Who cares whether the pilots in question were Dutch, Polish, English, Irish, Mongolian, Macedonian, Lebanese, French, German etc etc etc etc.
What is important is that the relevant authorities carry out a thorough investigation and get to the bottom of why this whole event happened in the 1st place. Then, for FR to ensure events like this never happen again. I would hope though, that the latter has already been taken care of.
We all know FR is riddled with blame culture, so lets hope too that the investigation results will bring that to light too. It's not just African carriers who get banned from European airspace. Maybe it's time MOL had the carpet pulled from under his feet, even on a temporary basis.
Who cares whether the pilots in question were Dutch, Polish, English, Irish, Mongolian, Macedonian, Lebanese, French, German etc etc etc etc.
What is important is that the relevant authorities carry out a thorough investigation and get to the bottom of why this whole event happened in the 1st place. Then, for FR to ensure events like this never happen again. I would hope though, that the latter has already been taken care of.
We all know FR is riddled with blame culture, so lets hope too that the investigation results will bring that to light too. It's not just African carriers who get banned from European airspace. Maybe it's time MOL had the carpet pulled from under his feet, even on a temporary basis.
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Snam
Your opinions are not worth the bandwidth you are wasting presenting them to the public. The incidents have been / are being investigated in a professional manner by the competent authorities.
It would be prudent of you, and both more helpful and professional, to report any "facts" you have to the authorities to assist with that investigation rather than shout your mouth off hiding being a nom de plume.
Your opinions are not worth the bandwidth you are wasting presenting them to the public. The incidents have been / are being investigated in a professional manner by the competent authorities.
It would be prudent of you, and both more helpful and professional, to report any "facts" you have to the authorities to assist with that investigation rather than shout your mouth off hiding being a nom de plume.
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I believe that snam is entitled to voice his opinion,like all the others here.He may not use 1200 words or use up the dictionary,and i may not agree with him but he has the freedom to speak.The same freedom that Ryanair would have cut from his mouth if they found out who he was.So go easy on him folks.