Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
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Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
The media reported today that a SAS flight bound for Washington and a KLM flight bound for Germany was only 40 seconds away from hitting eachother over Norwegian airspace. The reports said that the pilots did not get the info that they where on the same track but thanks to the TCAS the separation could be restored.
What can we make of this? Is it acceptable?
Is it maybe a situation that occurs on a day to day basis, without the knowing of the media...?
/A
What can we make of this? Is it acceptable?
Is it maybe a situation that occurs on a day to day basis, without the knowing of the media...?
/A
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
1st post on the username, fishing for info on practically a non-story,maybe has been watching some TV tonight
,........
Sounds like a journo looking for a story to me......
,........Sounds like a journo looking for a story to me......
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
They were supposedly at the same level going in opposite directions. RA's issued, so hardly standard separation..................methinks.
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
Hardly an RA was issued. RA is only issued when CPI is within 20-30 seconds. TA's are issued when the CPI is within 35-48 seconds, so this news is very overdramaticed by the media.
Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
It was a KLM Cityhopper F70 KL1174 from Trondheim to Amsterdam (82 pax + crew), and a SAS 330 from Copenhagen to Washington DC (268 aboard).
It seems that TCAS "Kicked on the Rocks", 330 up and F70 down...So, no Big Deal
(Thank God, but maybe for the next Time Norwegian ATC must be more aware, me thinks...)
It seems that TCAS "Kicked on the Rocks", 330 up and F70 down...So, no Big Deal
(Thank God, but maybe for the next Time Norwegian ATC must be more aware, me thinks...)
Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
Pardon my ignorance but why would a KLM flight going to Germany be in Norwegian airspace? Or is this an error in reporting?
More than just an ATCO
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
why would a KLM flight going to Germany be in Norwegian airspace?
. In the past I've seen Amsterdam Manchester flights route via Copenhagen and Scottish airspace
Couldn't find anything on this with Google
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
The SAS plane was flying from Copenhagen to Washington, the KLM from Trondheim to Amsterdam. The incident happened over Kristiansand.
News article in English:
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1193363.ece
News article in English:
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1193363.ece
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
without the knowing of the media...?
/2beers
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
Thanks for that link cringe ....
I can't for the life of me think why the incident is being treated with so little respect in this thread ....
I can't for the life of me think why the incident is being treated with so little respect in this thread ....
Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
The English version of Aftenposten is normally pretty accurate and not sensationalist. If you make a small allowance for the fact the head line writer is not using his/her first language the rest of the article seems quite factual and provides sensible context.
If the article is accurate, then to the lay reader this looks like an incident that should be taken seriously.
If the article is accurate, then to the lay reader this looks like an incident that should be taken seriously.
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
INLAK: "1st post on the username, fishing for info on practically a non-story"
Instead of addressing the topic starter's thoughts, your comment was pure ignorance, as unfortunately often found at pprune. This is not a non-story by the way, and everyone has its first post sometimes - the amount of posts says absolutely nothing about the qualifications of the poster. (Sorry, but has to be said sometimes in here...)
Fokker-Jock: "Hardly an RA was issued"
I know this is a rumours forum but it doesn't say you should post anything. A RA was issued, fact!
I can't for the life of me think why the incident is being treated with so little respect in this thread .... - thanks hobie!
Instead of addressing the topic starter's thoughts, your comment was pure ignorance, as unfortunately often found at pprune. This is not a non-story by the way, and everyone has its first post sometimes - the amount of posts says absolutely nothing about the qualifications of the poster. (Sorry, but has to be said sometimes in here...)
Fokker-Jock: "Hardly an RA was issued"
I know this is a rumours forum but it doesn't say you should post anything. A RA was issued, fact!
I can't for the life of me think why the incident is being treated with so little respect in this thread .... - thanks hobie!
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
Right Fokker-Jock. So the aircraft took avoiding action based on TA's only then? Or are you saying the only true part of the story is the 40 seconds? And what's CPI?
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
short version: ATC put two aircraft at 34000 feet, flying at 90 degrees to each other, on a course such that TCAS issued an RA. Nobody second-guessed the failsafe, and all were fine, except a terrified Norwegian vicar, who, when interviewed, recognized the distinct interference pattern A330 winglets leave in contrails at FL 340.
Norwegian Company Avinor was managing the sector, and apparently their employees have had some staffing issues lately. To make matters worse on the international scene, they have an "Acting Director" of safety at the moment. So, Norwegian ATCOs, this is your chance to shine for the Scandihoovian press, and maybe some international coverage as well. So don't be shy.
As for why people around here take this lightly, well, shucks, what do you expect people to say? The only proper answer is when the box says "CLIMB", cockpit-monkey pulls back. The ATCOs win one against management, and the aluminum tubes keep flying.
Norwegian Company Avinor was managing the sector, and apparently their employees have had some staffing issues lately. To make matters worse on the international scene, they have an "Acting Director" of safety at the moment. So, Norwegian ATCOs, this is your chance to shine for the Scandihoovian press, and maybe some international coverage as well. So don't be shy.
As for why people around here take this lightly, well, shucks, what do you expect people to say? The only proper answer is when the box says "CLIMB", cockpit-monkey pulls back. The ATCOs win one against management, and the aluminum tubes keep flying.
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Re: Big news in Sweden today: 40 sec from disaster
A bit of technical corrections :
If the report of the newspaper is correct ( they already got one type of A/c wong ) the RAs occurered at 34.000 ft with a/c crossing at 90 degr.
Above FL200 TA is 48 seconds and RA is 35 seconds before CPA ( closest point of approach )
At 90 degr crossing you are likely to be on the same semi circular, so at the same level.
So far no big thing. Unless you hear the tapes ( to check : was a clearance issued, was it a level bust? or an unexpected turn , or an oversight by ATCO, etc,) difficult to draw a conclusion.
For me it looks like the media hype about this is steered by someone on the ground that leaked the info to re-open the discussion on one controller per sector ( single man ops ) .But I am only guessing.
If the report of the newspaper is correct ( they already got one type of A/c wong ) the RAs occurered at 34.000 ft with a/c crossing at 90 degr.
Above FL200 TA is 48 seconds and RA is 35 seconds before CPA ( closest point of approach )
At 90 degr crossing you are likely to be on the same semi circular, so at the same level.
So far no big thing. Unless you hear the tapes ( to check : was a clearance issued, was it a level bust? or an unexpected turn , or an oversight by ATCO, etc,) difficult to draw a conclusion.
For me it looks like the media hype about this is steered by someone on the ground that leaked the info to re-open the discussion on one controller per sector ( single man ops ) .But I am only guessing.