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Air Transat - Hey pass that thing man!

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Air Transat - Hey pass that thing man!

Old 7th Sep 2001, 04:10
  #21 (permalink)  
Tan
 
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THE FOLLOWING SEQUENCE OF EVENTS HAS BEEN REPORTED TO AIRBUS.
PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING MUST BE CONSIDERED AS PRELIMINARY
INFORMATION, WHICH MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AS ADDITIONAL FACTS
ARE IDENTIFIED BY THE OFFICIAL INVESTIGATION.
DURING A FLIGHT FROM TORONTO TO LISBON, THE A330-200 AIRCRAFT,
EQUIPPED WITH ROLLS-ROYCE TRENT 700 ENGINES, EXPERIENCED A
SIGNIFICANT IN-FLIGHT FUEL LEAK. THE AIRCRAFT DIVERTED TO
TERCEIRA IN THE AZORES.
DURING THE DIVERSION, BOTH ENGINES STOPPED OPERATING DUE TO FUEL
STARVATION.
THE RAM AIR TURBINE (RAT) DEPLOYED, AND THE FLIGHT CONTINUED
UNPOWERED FOR A PERIOD REPORTED TO BE AROUND EIGHTEEN MINUTES.
THE AIRCRAFT LANDED IN TERCEIRA, AND STOPPED APPROXIMATELY
THREE-QUARTERS OF THE WAY ALONG THE RUNWAY, WITH ALL TYRES AND
WHEELS SEVERELY DAMAGED.
EMERGENCY EVACUATION WAS INITIATED. SEVEN OF THE EIGHT ESCAPE
SLIDES DEPLOYED. EVACUATION THROUGH DOOR 3 LEFT WAS NOT POSSIBLE
FOR A REASON STILL TO BE INVESTIGATED. UNCONFIRMED REPORTS
MENTIONED SOME MINOR INJURIES.
ON-AIRCRAFT INVESTIGATIVE WORK COULD START ONLY AFTER THE
RECOVERY OPERATION WAS COMPLETED. THIS WAS DONE ON MONDAY 27
AUGUST.
3. INVESTIGATION STATUS
THE INVESTIGATION INTO THIS EVENT IS LED BY THE PORTUGUESE
AUTHORITIES WITH FULL AND ACTIVE PARTICIPATION OF THE CANADIAN
AND FRENCH AUTHORITIES. AIRBUS, ROLLS-ROYCE AND THE AIRLINE
TECHNICAL EXPERTS ARE PROVIDING ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE TO THE
INVESTIGATING TEAM.
INITIAL INSPECTION OF THE AIRCRAFT HAS CONFIRMED SIGNS OF A FUEL
LEAK FROM THE RIGHT ENGINE. THE SOURCE OF THIS LEAK IS A DAMAGED
FUEL FEED PIPE (ROLLS-ROYCE TRENT 700 ENGINE IPC 73-11-47 FIG.
05 ITEM 50) INSTALLED ON THE ENGINE, DOWNSTREAM OF THE LP SHUT-
OFF VALVE. THE DAMAGE IS DUE TO INTERFERENCE WITH A HYDRAULIC
PIPE, IN THE VICINITY OF THE HP FUEL PUMP INLET. THESE PIPES ARE
MODIFIED AS PART OF ROLLS-ROYCE SERVICE BULLETIN (SB) RB211-29-
C625, AND COMPLETE APPLICATION OF THE SERVICE BULLETIN ENSURES
ADEQUATE CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE PIPES. THE SERVICE BULLETIN
APPEARS TO BE PARTIALLY APPLIED ON THE AFFECTED ENGINE.
THE LEFT ENGINE HAS BEEN INSPECTED, AND NO SIMILAR INTERFERENCE
EXISTS.
BECAUSE OF THE FINDING ON THE RIGHT ENGINE, INSPECTION OF SOME
OR ALL A330 AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH ROLLS-ROYCE TRENT ENGINES
WILL BE REQUIRED. DETAILS OF THIS INSPECTION WILL BE
COMMUNICATED WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS TO ALL OPERATORS OF A330
AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH ROLLS-ROYCE ENGINES. IT IS ANTICIPATED
THAT THIS INSPECTION WILL BE RENDERED MANDATORY BY THE
AUTHORITIES.
NOTE THAT THIS INSPECTION IS DEFINED AS AN INITIAL PRECAUTIONARY
MEASURE PENDING FURTHER DETAILED INVESTIGATION.
THE DIGITAL FLIGHT DATA RECORDER (DFDR) AND COCKPIT VOICE
RECORDER (CVR) WILL BE DECODED BY THE INVESTIGATION TEAM.
ANALYSIS OF THESE RECORDERS SHOULD PROVIDE THE INVESTIGATORS
WITH ADDITIONAL FACTS REGARDING THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS DURING
THE FLIGHT.


For the members of the forum who have never seen a fuel line on a modern jetliner...it's much bigger then you think...The fuel in the short section between the fuel shut off valves can run an engine for about one minute, it takes a big line to do that.
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 04:39
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Tan, Fuel Jettison systems are not considered optional equipment on big airliners. I coulda swore that the 330-200 had a center tank and a jettison system like it's big sister the 340. The -300 definately does not have either. Anybody confirm this?
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 08:25
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According to the September 5 issue of the National Post both the FDR and CVR lost power when the second engine quit...FYI.

Also, the cabin crew were apparently yelling (not panicking) due to the PA system losing power as well when the second engine quit.
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 11:01
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Some A330-200s have fuel jettison, others do not.
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 11:31
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Fuel dump IS OPTIONAL on the A330. The -200 has a center tank but fuel dump is still OPTIONAL.

Question: Does anyone KNOW of any A330 equipped with fuel dump?
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 15:23
  #26 (permalink)  
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Well Folks, that's the problem with speculation. None of us, including myself, really know if this particular a/c was even equipped with a fuel dump system. There are so many possible scenarios, perhaps the a/c was a special order, second hand, or leased, etc..... None of us know for sure...

The point is, we are all speculating whether the a/c was even equipped with a fuel dump system or even if it could be....So how could any of us really know happened.

I wouldn't be surprised if the flight crew, in their personal quiet moments, are not reappraising what they think happened.

I suspect that we are all speculating so that if it ever happens to us, we may have a "heads up" on it...The down side is that the speculation could be wrong.
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 15:46
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Hot Rod

Emirates flies A330-200's, Trent 700 RR engines, with the optional
fuel jettison system installed. I understand this is required not so
much to protect against overweight landings ( it is certified to do so
up its MTOW 230t), but to respect obstacle clearance in the case of a
single engine missed approach at certain high elevation airports at high
landing weights.
The certified approach climb gradient, single engine for the A330 is 2.1%.
The normal go around flap setting of Config 3 will not always allow for the minimum
climb gradient to be met. This can be solved by increasing the approach speed
to match Config 3, (lose an eng.) and climb away with Config 1+ F. Unfortunately
the regulations do not take account of the time/distance required to accelerate to
the higher speed. Thus an option for fuel jettison !
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 15:51
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Brokepilot, very interesting quandry you are facing there!(more so than the other crap on this thread).
I suppose it comes down to your preference for draught or bottled beer and your faith in the cleanliness of the mug and bottle washer.
As for the Air Transat business re maint practices/engine change/ incomplete SB's /incorrect parts used I guess we should wait for the factual report.
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 21:20
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Dear forum readers

According to the preliminary investigation the damaged engine Low pressure fuel pipe had a crack 7.5 cm x 2~4 mm leading to a loss of 12 tons in 20 min.
see (newspaper article in portuguese) http://semanal.expresso.pt/pais/arti...artigo=ES35530

Just for curiosity I've done some elementary Fluid Mechanics calculations, assuming
- Fuel pressure(Upstream of Engine Fuel Pump)=20Psi
- Crack dimensions 7.5cm x 4mm
- Fuel density=0.785
I reached a estimated value of 16tons/h leak.
In the actual conditions due to vibration and pipe expansion under pressure, I believe the leak could reach the reported 12 tons in 20min.
Regards

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: delarocha ]

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: delarocha ]
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 23:01
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There are some good graphics at the site that delarocha provided a link to. I think they're worth posting here...





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Old 7th Sep 2001, 23:10
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Transat hit with fine, lawsuit

Friday, September 7, 2001
By PAUL KORING
With a report from Tim Cook

Air Transat had its wings clipped yesterday when it was slapped with a $250,000 fine for shoddy maintenance and ordered to route its twin-engined jet aircraft closer to land. At the same time, Transport Minister David Collenette said the airline was safe to fly.

Meanwhile, passengers who had been terrified during an emergency, no-engines descent and landing two weeks ago filed a lawsuit claiming more than $50-million against the Montreal-based charter airline. The Air Transat Airbus A330 ran out of fuel in the mid-Atlantic on an overnight flight from Toronto to Lisbon on Aug. 24. The suit is on behalf of three passengers. Others among the 291 passengers, including 10 who suffered minor injuries escaping from the aircraft after it landed in the Azores, are expected to join the action.

Antonio Azevedo, one of the lawyers involved in the class action, said he has been retained by "numerous" passengers and families of passengers who were on the flight. He did not want to give a specific number.

"The more information that comes out, the more I'm coming to the belief that this plane should never have left the ground," Mr. Azevedo said. "It's hard for us to understand the severity of the impact this would have on people. These people are traumatized."

Mr. Azevedo said the suit is being launched because the families feel they should be financially compensated for their trauma and so nothing like this will ever happen again.

Air Transat would not comment on the suit.

After the fine and flight limitations were announced, Air Transat president and chief operating officer Denis Jacob said, "We fully accept and understand the significant fine and precautionary measures.

"The safety and security of our passengers remains our top priority," he said.
Mr. Jacob added that Air Transat had lost only a small number of reservations after the near disaster.

At a news conference to announce the punitive and precautionary measures, Mr. Collenette assured Canadians that "they should feel safe flying Air Transat," or any other Canadian airline.

"A mistake has happened, the company has admitted the mistake and the company is paying the price," Mr. Collenette said.

Further action against Air Transat may be forthcoming.

Yesterday's fine related only to the maintenance errors that resulted in the improper installation of an engine on the plane. The Portuguese-led investigation is looking into whether the pilots of that plane, Flight 236, may have pumped large amounts of fuel from the undamaged left-wing tanks to the right-side engine where it poured overboard from a ruptured fuel line.

Transport Canada has ordered Air Transat pilots to attend remedial fuel management sessions and take refresher training on long-distance, over-water flight operations.

Although the fine is the largest in Canadian aviation history, if the airline paid for it by passing the cost on to passengers, it would add less than eight cents to the price of each ticket sold by Air Transat in a year.

In addition, the over-water restriction should have relatively little impact on Air Transat. Although very long over-water legs, such as the Toronto-Lisbon run, will require more northerly routings that keep twin-engined aircraft within 90-minutes flying time of airports in Greenland and Iceland (the model of aircraft involved in the incident is limited to 60 minutes), most of Air Transat's summer season of flying to Europe is over.

In the winter, the charter carrier shifts almost all its flights to sun destinations.

For instance, this week, Air Transat has 142 transatlantic flights. By the first week of November it will have only four.

Despite Mr. Collenette's assertions that Transport Canada runs the world's tightest regulatory oversight of airlines, the only two large, modern aircraft to run out of fuel on regular flights -- turning them into massive, unwieldy gliders full of frightened passengers -- were Canadian. In 1983, an Air Canada Boeing 767 ran out of fuel and the pilot -- who had extensive glider experience -- made an emergency "dead-stick" landing at a former military airfield in Gimli, Man. Ever since, the incident has been known as the Gimli Glider.

Flight 236 was even luckier. Both its Rolls-Royce engines quit from fuel starvation after Captain Robert Piche -- belatedly realizing that he had a massive fuel leak -- had already diverted to the Azores, the only specks of land for more than 1,600 kilometres. He had steered toward the Azores because of concern over the fuel supply.

Flight 236 was the first transatlantic airliner to run out of fuel over the Atlantic since jets replaced propeller-driven planes on long-haul routes. It was also the first time any airline holding a special long-range operating licence for twin-engined jet flights over water has lost both engines for any reason.

Art LaFlamme, Transport Canada's director-general for civil aviation, said the unprecedented fine was imposed because Air Transat had flown the improperly maintained Airbus A330 on 13 flights over four days before it headed on the Lisbon trip.

Although a routine weekly check of the aircraft was conducted on Aug. 21 -- two days after the repair and two days before the near disaster -- the installation of the right-side engine was not checked despite a service bulletin from Rolls-Royce warning that improper installation could result in insufficient clearances between the fuel line and other parts.
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Old 7th Sep 2001, 23:33
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Hey delarocha

Good link that you posted. My Portuguese is very bad, but the article shows the a/c high and fast turning final, which is what you would have expected to happen and hoped happened. Much better then low and slow.

Might I add because of the forward velocity of the a/c the actual leak would have probably occurred at a much faster rate. Why I say this, is because I have been involved in fuel dumps, and the rate was always greater then what the manufacture said. I realize that we are not talking about a fuel dump, but I always remembered that a higher loss rate could always be expected and to monitor the rate carefully in actual coditions. Funny thing, no one ever told us about this...

The information exchange on the internet has to be a positive thing for aviation...
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Old 8th Sep 2001, 00:53
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Remember Nationair // it came away after the disaster in Jeddah with a slapped wrist from Transport Canada - since Air Transat is a Quebec based company will the same happen or have times changed in Canada??

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Ex NAV ]
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Old 8th Sep 2001, 01:53
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Well Ex NAV

Lets hope that's not the case, all of us know, theirs too much politics in aviation...

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Tan ]
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Old 8th Sep 2001, 03:58
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C-GITS (-200) is a six tanker:
Left & Right inner wing tanks with 11,095 USG each; Left & Right outer wing tanks with 964 USG each; One 10,979 USG center tank, and one horizontal tail trim tank with 1,646 USG, for a total of....36,743 USG.
Rwy 33 at Lajes is 10,865 X 300-ft.
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Old 8th Sep 2001, 18:26
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And in come the lawyers. In these increasingly litigeous times as usual there has to be blame, lots of blame backed up by big demands for cash and lots of that. What a sad state of affairs when everything nowadays is accompanied by the demand for blame and compensation. Theres no such thing as an accident or 'God' will' there's only the bleating cries of 'my severe trauma' I will never ever be able to live a normal life again and the *****000000$'s will never fully compensate me for the agonies I went through before the plane touched down and I was able to walk away alive. Hasn't is really all got a tad out of hand? It was an emergency that had a pretty good ending. Lessons will be learned and hopefully the skies will be a little safer in the meantime lets all be very pleased that the final outcome was so good, after a bit of a fumble in a tight situation a darned good recovery with a deadstick landing in a pretty big glider. Nice work i'd say. Beers all round, mug or bottle your choice
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Old 8th Sep 2001, 19:59
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Hear, Hear....
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Old 8th Sep 2001, 21:58
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Upperecam and others, stop this discussion!. Why don't we just let the Guvnor pontificate (like he does with everything else in aviation and pass his opinions on everything, and just accept that? Just think of the poor pprune server- 2700+ posts from one over opinionated, self important individual is just not fair. And who is this 'expert of the airwaves'? Read about this sad person who seemingly doesn't have a private life! http://flytristar.tripod.com/article/art06.html
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Old 9th Sep 2001, 00:10
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Gee "Notso Fantastic", it sure sounds like you're not having a good day.

Why don't you have a pint or two, lighten up, and enjoy life...


[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Tan ]
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Old 9th Sep 2001, 01:17
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Notso Fantastic, dear boy, please - do us all a favour and just foxtrot oscar will you? Most people would have got the message by now but it seems that your skin is thicker (or intelligence lower) than the average bear...

My contribution to this particular thread so far was to correct an erroneous perception about Worldways vs Nationair - something which if you knew the slightest thing about Canadian aviation is actually really rather relevant; and to post a press release about the incident and further ETOPS restrictions from the Canadian MOT. Again, rather relevant to the thread.

Now, kindly stop trying to 7500 threads because of your immature attitude. If you have something relevant to post; fine. If not - AMF!.
 

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