Ryanair's view on fatigue (merged)
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What we have to realise here ladies and gentlemen,is that in the SOP's of RYR management it is very clear that anyone(and I mean anyone!)with a comment or complaint against a pilot will be assumed to be right,even if the pilot can prove otherwise. A nice simple rule for "nice?" simple people.And I jest not.
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Hi PAXboy,
I wasn't having a go at you, nor did I mean to infer that you were the one whinging so sorry if it caused offence. I should have written:
What I simply meant was that individuals either need to do something about their situation or bight their lip. Raising problems is great if it leads to action. Raising problems and doing nothing, perhaps hoping someone else will fix it, is worse than not raising the problem in the first place.
Cheers,
LP
I wasn't having a go at you, nor did I mean to infer that you were the one whinging so sorry if it caused offence. I should have written:
I understand where you're coming from but if one isn't prepared to stand up for oneself, stop whinging!
Cheers,
LP
Paxing All Over The World
Sure, no problem.
I have just read the new thread from Charlie Murdoch at Em****** and it is not a nice story. But giving up a job and moving the family is not to be taken lightly.
I have just read the new thread from Charlie Murdoch at Em****** and it is not a nice story. But giving up a job and moving the family is not to be taken lightly.
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The captain in question should address his concerns to the IAA. If they fail to deal with this in the appropriate manner, he should report this to the FAA, the UK CAA and other European aviation authorities.
If there is any evidence that FR (and/or other Irish carriers) are not receiving adequate regulatory oversight from the IAA, Ireland should be added to the list of countries whose aircraft are banned from entering EU and US airspace !! Ireland would then join the likes of Equatorial Guinea, the Gambia, Liberia, Sierra Leone and Cameroon.
FR has long outgrown Ireland (and it's tiny IAA). It is time that MOL registers FR in the UK, as STN is the airline's de facto base of operations.
I for one would love to see the UKCAA get their teeth in to MOL's @rse :-)
CG
If there is any evidence that FR (and/or other Irish carriers) are not receiving adequate regulatory oversight from the IAA, Ireland should be added to the list of countries whose aircraft are banned from entering EU and US airspace !! Ireland would then join the likes of Equatorial Guinea, the Gambia, Liberia, Sierra Leone and Cameroon.
FR has long outgrown Ireland (and it's tiny IAA). It is time that MOL registers FR in the UK, as STN is the airline's de facto base of operations.
I for one would love to see the UKCAA get their teeth in to MOL's @rse :-)
CG
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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blue top, a simple question: Why didn't Ops use the Standby Crew to operate these 2 sectors? ( I suspect that I know the answer but it still needs to be asked as it will identify the cause of the problem).
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Let me guess sky9, would it be something like:
"As our pilots never get sick or fatigued and our flights never run late we don't need reserves - because in those exceptional circumstances such happy pilots have we that they will rush to volunteer for any extra flights that might be needed" ?
"As our pilots never get sick or fatigued and our flights never run late we don't need reserves - because in those exceptional circumstances such happy pilots have we that they will rush to volunteer for any extra flights that might be needed" ?
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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delwy,
So the cause of the problem goes straight back to management - or the lack of it. Are they running an airline or a circus? On the basis of your reply the later.
So the cause of the problem goes straight back to management - or the lack of it. Are they running an airline or a circus? On the basis of your reply the later.
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'FR has long outgrown Ireland (and it's tiny IAA). It is time that MOL registers FR in the UK, as STN is the airline's de facto base of operations.
I for one would love to see the UKCAA get their teeth in to MOL's @rse :-)'
I luv these "we still have an empire" comment's and that the great U.K./c.a.a are just the greatest!!!!!
The fact is that a non U.K. company is making a fortune out of the U.K. and it really p****s you off .
I' ve worked in the U.K. for ten years now and what i've seen in the industry that home based airline's can get away with would frighten you,and it's no different anywhere else!!!!!!!
move on charterguy!!!!!!!!!!!!
I for one would love to see the UKCAA get their teeth in to MOL's @rse :-)'
I luv these "we still have an empire" comment's and that the great U.K./c.a.a are just the greatest!!!!!
The fact is that a non U.K. company is making a fortune out of the U.K. and it really p****s you off .
I' ve worked in the U.K. for ten years now and what i've seen in the industry that home based airline's can get away with would frighten you,and it's no different anywhere else!!!!!!!
move on charterguy!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ark agree with you on that point. sometimes rather shocking indeed.
de facto though: remains fact in CAA JAR rules that you cant just start your 900hrs total clock to 0 again on the 1st of April.
Spoke to a guy the other day from RYR and he had done 990 hrs from November to November. This is something they couldnt get away with on UK registered aircraft!
de facto though: remains fact in CAA JAR rules that you cant just start your 900hrs total clock to 0 again on the 1st of April.
Spoke to a guy the other day from RYR and he had done 990 hrs from November to November. This is something they couldnt get away with on UK registered aircraft!
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Never let truth get in the way of a good story.
Well said, Ark. So many quibbling ninnies still seeking to punch beyond their weight class. Sad, were it not so pathetic. Any JAR-OPS 1 AOC holder can set themselves up any EU member state. Peculiar, don't you think, that the chattering dopes never seem inclined to turn their gaze toward the unsafe failing airlines? Only the safe successful, and dare I say it, Irish registered ones.
As for the case at hand, you'd all do well to acquaint yourselves with the facts before queuing up to hurl guano in the direction of Dublin. Could it be that this particular captain was a belligerent individual who has, for quite some time, held the view that he'd work only when it suited him? Any clue how many "duvet days" he's had when it was all a bit much to climb out of bed on a beastly cold morning? Refusing to have a mobile switched on, rendering him effectively uncontactable when on duty? De-facto work to rule campaigns aren't on, are they. Well, not for those of us compelled to work for a living, anyway.
If he has a problem with his demotion, though, there's always that 16.2% Icelandic owned company, Easyjet. They're looking for some people now that BALPA has completely and utterly destroyed their once workable roster system and they’re haemorrhaging pilots quicker than Delta dumps its pension obligations. 5 on, 3 off at Ryanair doesn't look too bad from a distance, does it, and with 5/4, maybe even 5/5 and part time work just around the corner too, and its hard to imagine there will be 737 pilots working for anyone else, soon. Except perhaps for our first officer who has odd ideas about his command 'availability'. Strange attitude, but I've always thought £8000 per month is enough to keep my phone switched on during turn arounds.
As for the case at hand, you'd all do well to acquaint yourselves with the facts before queuing up to hurl guano in the direction of Dublin. Could it be that this particular captain was a belligerent individual who has, for quite some time, held the view that he'd work only when it suited him? Any clue how many "duvet days" he's had when it was all a bit much to climb out of bed on a beastly cold morning? Refusing to have a mobile switched on, rendering him effectively uncontactable when on duty? De-facto work to rule campaigns aren't on, are they. Well, not for those of us compelled to work for a living, anyway.
If he has a problem with his demotion, though, there's always that 16.2% Icelandic owned company, Easyjet. They're looking for some people now that BALPA has completely and utterly destroyed their once workable roster system and they’re haemorrhaging pilots quicker than Delta dumps its pension obligations. 5 on, 3 off at Ryanair doesn't look too bad from a distance, does it, and with 5/4, maybe even 5/5 and part time work just around the corner too, and its hard to imagine there will be 737 pilots working for anyone else, soon. Except perhaps for our first officer who has odd ideas about his command 'availability'. Strange attitude, but I've always thought £8000 per month is enough to keep my phone switched on during turn arounds.
Paxing All Over The World
Leo Hairy-Camel
Perhaps the reason that they are so 'successful' is that they they are stretching the rules to, or beyond, breaking point? Perhaps the ones that are 'failing' are following the rules? May I suggest that you separate the the categories, thus:
"unsafe failing airlines" becomes either an unsafe airline or one that is failing.
"the safe successful" becomes either a safe airline or a successful one. Of course, the two MAY align in the way that you have suggested but they might align as:
"Safe failing" and "unsafe successful"? Just a thought.
I cannot say if Irish ones get specific attention, I reckon that BA, VS and BD are trashed in here every day.
Peculiar, don't you think, that the chattering dopes never seem inclined to turn their gaze toward the unsafe failing airlines? Only the safe successful...
"unsafe failing airlines" becomes either an unsafe airline or one that is failing.
"the safe successful" becomes either a safe airline or a successful one. Of course, the two MAY align in the way that you have suggested but they might align as:
"Safe failing" and "unsafe successful"? Just a thought.
... and dare I say it, Irish registered ones.
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Could it be that this particular captain was a belligerent individual...
De-facto work to rule campaigns aren't on, are they.
So Leo tell us, is yours the real "Ryanair view of fatigue" - namely that it is a mark of wimps and lazy nere-do-wells?
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Leo,
Has RYR finally entered the 21st century and issued their captains with mobile phones? (It is not SOP that pilots have to have a personal mobile and be contactable while at work; at least not in any airline I have worked for.)
Has RYR finally entered the 21st century and issued their captains with mobile phones? (It is not SOP that pilots have to have a personal mobile and be contactable while at work; at least not in any airline I have worked for.)
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Based on LHC's usual grip on reality, this recent diatribe from the man may lead one to assume that the former captain in question is in fact a most cooperative, flexible, company focussed individual who would most likely bend over backwards to assist the company in all of it's ventures.
One might assume otherwise, but LHC's credibility on this forum has, shall we say, been challenged occassionally.
One might assume otherwise, but LHC's credibility on this forum has, shall we say, been challenged occassionally.
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Leo! Others have pointed out the scary anagram of Michael O' Leary that your name represents, and by goodness you follow his take on life slavishly.
In your world anyone who is not totally compliant to every request gets his character traduced and motives impugned. It could'nt be, could it, that the guy actually was fatigued?
Hell no, he was a "born troublemaker" by all accounts, and one of the many workshy pilots out there who, as Michael charmingly points out from his estate in Dublin, just want to lie around a pool all day, given half a chance.
You imply that you hold a management position in Ryanair's flight ops department. Dont you think that the time has come to take your job a bit more seriously?
You have an aircraft that nearly goes off the end of the runway having landed in the wrong configuration and at very high speed with a pilot who had an otherwise clear record saying he was totally stressed-out by work arrangments at Ryan. You have a catalogue of postings here about the way you treat your people. Do you see a trend? Are they all just workshy skivvers who wont get off their butt and hoe the roe for a days pay? I rather doubt it.
Spare us the "smoke and mirrors" tactic of saying we're unable to cope with Rayn's success and any criticism is motivated by jealousy, because it aint. You guys do your thing and we'll do ours and thats that on that front.
I'd look to your onions a bit more and do something about staff morale at your company before you wish you had done so long ago.
In your world anyone who is not totally compliant to every request gets his character traduced and motives impugned. It could'nt be, could it, that the guy actually was fatigued?
Hell no, he was a "born troublemaker" by all accounts, and one of the many workshy pilots out there who, as Michael charmingly points out from his estate in Dublin, just want to lie around a pool all day, given half a chance.
You imply that you hold a management position in Ryanair's flight ops department. Dont you think that the time has come to take your job a bit more seriously?
You have an aircraft that nearly goes off the end of the runway having landed in the wrong configuration and at very high speed with a pilot who had an otherwise clear record saying he was totally stressed-out by work arrangments at Ryan. You have a catalogue of postings here about the way you treat your people. Do you see a trend? Are they all just workshy skivvers who wont get off their butt and hoe the roe for a days pay? I rather doubt it.
Spare us the "smoke and mirrors" tactic of saying we're unable to cope with Rayn's success and any criticism is motivated by jealousy, because it aint. You guys do your thing and we'll do ours and thats that on that front.
I'd look to your onions a bit more and do something about staff morale at your company before you wish you had done so long ago.