ATC abuse / TCAS resolution (merged)
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verbal abuse on frequency
Hello everybody. A month or so, we had a case, where ATCO was late in notifying the possible conflict, but gave the corrective heading on time. The crew didn't comply for more than 45 seconds, by which time airprox was becoming a reality. After TCAS RA and after both planes were cleared, the verbal abuse from the cockpit started. And it just didn't stop. I know, that crew must have been in stress, but believe me, the level of stress is high on the other part of the microphone as well. I would like to hear your experience...and your thoughts.
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Hello Kontrolor,
My thought (IMHO, thus):
Prolonged verbal abuse is totally inexcusable, and should be reported, in this case.
Alles bestens
edited pursuing politeness, which appears to be an endangered "specie" nowadays.
Tutto il meglio, in my native language (= all the best = alles bestens = het beste...)
I add my sympathies and, after reading other posts that followed, I am ROTFLMAO (rolling on the floor laughing my arse off -- Thanks for that). Anyhow: prolonged insults on the frequency,<u> in that case</u> = lack of proficiency (Again <u>IMHO</u> -- let them be checked!!! Said by somebody who had to go though several psychiatric tests, very unpleasant, my friend-- grüss auf niederlände)
My thought (IMHO, thus):
Prolonged verbal abuse is totally inexcusable, and should be reported, in this case.
Alles bestens
edited pursuing politeness, which appears to be an endangered "specie" nowadays.
Tutto il meglio, in my native language (= all the best = alles bestens = het beste...)
I add my sympathies and, after reading other posts that followed, I am ROTFLMAO (rolling on the floor laughing my arse off -- Thanks for that). Anyhow: prolonged insults on the frequency,<u> in that case</u> = lack of proficiency (Again <u>IMHO</u> -- let them be checked!!! Said by somebody who had to go though several psychiatric tests, very unpleasant, my friend-- grüss auf niederlände)
Last edited by vonbag; 4th Nov 2005 at 20:18.
I disagree...
Because ANY verbal abuse is totally inexcusable, thoroughly unprofessional, totally reprehensible and should certainly be subject to reporting action.
Und Ja, alles bestens!
Because ANY verbal abuse is totally inexcusable, thoroughly unprofessional, totally reprehensible and should certainly be subject to reporting action.
Und Ja, alles bestens!
Verbal abuse is totally unacceptable but consider this;
You were safely tucked up in your warm control tower whatever the outcome and could afford to be magnanamous.
The crews involved had just found themselves in severe danger and were probably in serious need of an underpant change with not a toilet in sight!
You were safely tucked up in your warm control tower whatever the outcome and could afford to be magnanamous.
The crews involved had just found themselves in severe danger and were probably in serious need of an underpant change with not a toilet in sight!
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Prolonged verbal abuse is totally inexcusable
" is ok then? 
At times I would just love to let rip on the R/T....I've been damn close on occasions. Maybe if I was on the receiving end I'd let go the years of pent up mental rollockings I've been dishing out
But, must be professional and all that.
Maybe on my last day..............tee hee
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Just let it out squibbler,there is a controller at humberside who doesn't think twice about bollicking/ranting at pilots,does us good though most of the time,gets some peoples backs up big time aswell!
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Argh, the paroquial delights of Humberside - just a couple of years ago, I was airborne from North Coates en route home strip in a Zlin. Outside their 2 and 2 they started to ask me to steer this that and the other due departing heavy traffic. I very politely reminded them that I was in the open FIR and would maintain height and heading.
Didn't go down well.
The Airbus missed me.
Now to all you who say what a beligerent sod, if they want to play big airports, justify the traffic volumes and get a zone, if not, be polite to the other customers and ask nicely and we will move - simple customer service really.
Same can be said of Teeside, arrogant people as well.
Now Leeds, different kettle of bananas, even Ma'am has her moments
Didn't go down well.
The Airbus missed me.
Now to all you who say what a beligerent sod, if they want to play big airports, justify the traffic volumes and get a zone, if not, be polite to the other customers and ask nicely and we will move - simple customer service really.
Same can be said of Teeside, arrogant people as well.
Now Leeds, different kettle of bananas, even Ma'am has her moments
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tucked up in your warm control tower whatever the outcom
(Yeah, yeah, probability is much less, I know......)
The Cooler King
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After a similar incident to the one above one afternoon, I heard just a very plain and simple "Thank you very much for that" from the captain involved.
It was totally deadpan, but spoke volumes.
It was totally deadpan, but spoke volumes.
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i had a very hairy one a while back,short final,1.5nm out at 100kt and the twr cleared another aircraft at the holding point to line up on the active i was about to land on.I informed him again i was on final,now very short,and he instructed me to skip over to the parallell,offset threshold rwy.i was at around 200ft.i informed him i was skipping over but it would have to be a go-around off that rwy.i cleared the VOR apparatus by about 150ft in a full-flap,full power steep turn which,as you know,in ground proximity,is extremely hazardous,especially with the moderate to severe widshear that day from an embamkment next to the parallell rwy.
it was a VERY dangerous situation he had placed us in.
He then cleared me to climb and reposition for a landing,but sounded very sheepish and a little shaken.
as FARRELL said,all i said as he handed me over to gnd was:"thanks for that".He could read it as he wished.
There's no need for prolonged abuse,though,i must admit,a few harsh words are indeed perhaps sometimes called for,particularly in Africa to wake people up.But certainly NEVER EVER swearing.
Cheers.Cb
it was a VERY dangerous situation he had placed us in.
He then cleared me to climb and reposition for a landing,but sounded very sheepish and a little shaken.
as FARRELL said,all i said as he handed me over to gnd was:"thanks for that".He could read it as he wished.
There's no need for prolonged abuse,though,i must admit,a few harsh words are indeed perhaps sometimes called for,particularly in Africa to wake people up.But certainly NEVER EVER swearing.
Cheers.Cb
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The best phylosophy, all happens in the heat of the moment, is best resolved over a beer later.
Best is to try and keep your cool, both ends of the mike, but, be sure to pass apologies afterwards where required.
Pitty flying have become more and more impersonal, where's the days where you could walk up to the tower and exchange niceties...and apologies?
When flying involved in the heat of the moment exchanges, but one's always a gent to apologize after the dust have settled....if you survived it!?
Best is to try and keep your cool, both ends of the mike, but, be sure to pass apologies afterwards where required.
Pitty flying have become more and more impersonal, where's the days where you could walk up to the tower and exchange niceties...and apologies?
When flying involved in the heat of the moment exchanges, but one's always a gent to apologize after the dust have settled....if you survived it!?
Drain Bamaged
The crew didn't comply for more than 45 seconds,
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Not condoning abuse but did the controller say "turn immediately" and advise of the potential conflict? 45 seconds is a long time, I can't imagine that if the correct RT was used the crew wouldn't have moved swiftly.
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Well, if we need to use the emergency RT to get a crew attention, and a reaction time below 45sec, there'll be a lot of "immediately" on the air!
As for the verbal abuse, it's not really "pro"! And if it "just didn't stop", maybe asking for an explanation (for the delay and the abuse) is a good idea.
As for the verbal abuse, it's not really "pro"! And if it "just didn't stop", maybe asking for an explanation (for the delay and the abuse) is a good idea.
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TCAS and ATC
Hello again, this is part two from my post "verbal abuse on frequency". The problem started, when crew of aircraft, which later on abused on frequency (stating even if the ATCO is insane), apparently was misguided about traffic situation when looking at the TCAS. They were turning the opposite what ATCO was giving them, and pointing out the traffic seen on TCAS. Suffice to say, that this is wrong usage of ACAS and they obviously forgot, that traffic on TCAS is not shown in absolute, but relative bearing, since both planes are moving in space. As ATCO, I would like your (pilot) input on this.