Has Ryanair been hacked?
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I'm not a pilot (only a simple controller) but many of the issues raised in this thread apply to the ATC world also.
Here in the UK if you are not 'lucky' enough to be sponsored by NATS you'll probably have to pay for the college courses yourself and then find somewhere to do the practical training.
In times of controller shortage you'll see training schemes advertised. At other times, some airports (normally the same ones) will seek to profiteer from those starting out in their career (perhaps by charging trainees for practical training).
What is really disappointing is that the people who benefitted from the kindness and assistance from others early in their careers and now have risen to the dizzy heights of manager etc. are often those most likely to take advantage of the current youngsters.
Is it the same on the flying side???????
Here in the UK if you are not 'lucky' enough to be sponsored by NATS you'll probably have to pay for the college courses yourself and then find somewhere to do the practical training.
In times of controller shortage you'll see training schemes advertised. At other times, some airports (normally the same ones) will seek to profiteer from those starting out in their career (perhaps by charging trainees for practical training).
What is really disappointing is that the people who benefitted from the kindness and assistance from others early in their careers and now have risen to the dizzy heights of manager etc. are often those most likely to take advantage of the current youngsters.
Is it the same on the flying side???????
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Jesus Guvnor. you really do excell at being a nobend.
Get a life, then take some where else.
And to any airline that wishes to exploit a terrible situation overall in aviation by requesting monies for applications, note a recent change in policy due to amount of pilots on market, and monies for interview and bonding and/or security for a type rating. I say gitferked.
I am willing to be bonded for monies payed on my behalf by ANY company for my type rating/s. But anything more than this is surely exploitation. ESPECIALLY as this has changed in light of Sept 11th.
And Gov if you mention supply and demand I am going to come up to your trailer park on the perimeter road and kick your wannabe CEO, ATPL, ENGINEER, FINACIAL DIRECTORS ARSE.
Get a life, then take some where else.
And to any airline that wishes to exploit a terrible situation overall in aviation by requesting monies for applications, note a recent change in policy due to amount of pilots on market, and monies for interview and bonding and/or security for a type rating. I say gitferked.
I am willing to be bonded for monies payed on my behalf by ANY company for my type rating/s. But anything more than this is surely exploitation. ESPECIALLY as this has changed in light of Sept 11th.
And Gov if you mention supply and demand I am going to come up to your trailer park on the perimeter road and kick your wannabe CEO, ATPL, ENGINEER, FINACIAL DIRECTORS ARSE.
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One other point in ref to page one. In the US you do not need a full type rating / command rating to sit in the right seat. A commercial multi will do. However some airlines do require that you do the full left seat FAA ATPL check out, and again some pay for this and some dont.Either way it is a "much" cheaper alternative than a EU equivilent. But I think you have to be very careful drawing comparisons between European training costs and comparisons with US. This however is not to say one is better that the other.
Hey Gov did BA turn down your Nigerian PPL???
Guess so.
Hey Gov did BA turn down your Nigerian PPL???
Guess so.
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In the USA, there are many airlines in Florida in which the F/O is paying for the priviledge of sitting there. Just read the ads in FLYING magazine.
Stupid system, and stupid people who think it is a valid way of building a worthwhile career.
Stupid system, and stupid people who think it is a valid way of building a worthwhile career.
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Thank God they don't have Concord on their fleet. How much would they charge for that??
Taking their logic a little further, wouldn't every pilot in every airline have to pay for the "privelage" of moving from one type to another?
[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Tosh McCaber ]
Taking their logic a little further, wouldn't every pilot in every airline have to pay for the "privelage" of moving from one type to another?
[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Tosh McCaber ]
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I know of a former Flight Operations Director who was interviewing a would-be F/O. During the course of the interview, this guy told the FOD that he was willing to fly for nothing, just for the experience and the type rating.
The said FOD stood up, picked up the guy's CV, ripped it up, and let him know in no uncertain terms that people like him would not get a job if he was the last pilot around, and warned him never, ever again to threaten to steal the jobs of other pilots.
The said FOD stood up, picked up the guy's CV, ripped it up, and let him know in no uncertain terms that people like him would not get a job if he was the last pilot around, and warned him never, ever again to threaten to steal the jobs of other pilots.
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Well I'm about to be made redundant by Virgin and had already filled out Ryanair's online application form.
If they now expect me to cough up £50 they can ram it. There is a glut of well qualified and experienced pilots coming on to the market and I can't believe that any of them will end up at Ryanair. If this is how they treat you when they are trying to entice you to work for them, what will they be like when you're actually in? (I think we already know the answer to that).
There are plenty of jobs still available, easyJet comes to mind, and I'm certainly not that desperate or stupid to take part in this cynical exercise.
I expect that Ryanair are going to miss an opportunity to get hold of some quality operators.
If they now expect me to cough up £50 they can ram it. There is a glut of well qualified and experienced pilots coming on to the market and I can't believe that any of them will end up at Ryanair. If this is how they treat you when they are trying to entice you to work for them, what will they be like when you're actually in? (I think we already know the answer to that).
There are plenty of jobs still available, easyJet comes to mind, and I'm certainly not that desperate or stupid to take part in this cynical exercise.
I expect that Ryanair are going to miss an opportunity to get hold of some quality operators.
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With that attitude quality operators are going to miss out on a the opportunity of a well paid job with an airline that can offer something that (almost) everyone else can't -job security
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We don't want "Quality" operators - just qualified and safe pilots who try and keep to schedule - no more, no less.
So-called "Quality" operators tend to be prima donnas who make constant unreasonable demands while thinking that they are the most important employees in the company.
No thanks - just give us competent pilots, of the non-whingeing variety.
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NOW what am I doing?!?
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Guvnor ]
So-called "Quality" operators tend to be prima donnas who make constant unreasonable demands while thinking that they are the most important employees in the company.
No thanks - just give us competent pilots, of the non-whingeing variety.
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NOW what am I doing?!?
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Guvnor ]
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I mean, come on, really - who actually needs pilots? That's why I am cultivating my ever increasing number of identities. In fact, I am currently negotiating with Delta to buy 44 old personalities that they no longer require. Then I will be able to fly ALL my planes on my own with no interference from you upsetting and ungrateful pilots. 
:o 
:o
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At last! I know have faith in the BA recruitment process!
Guv didn't make it. That makes 3500 people very happy now they are guaranteed not to have to share a flight deck for 12 hrs and more time down route listening to his garbage.
However, if he got a real job, then maybe he would spend less time in this forum boring the rest of us? So go on Guv, splash out the 50 quid yourself and give us all a break!
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: thegirth ]
Guv didn't make it. That makes 3500 people very happy now they are guaranteed not to have to share a flight deck for 12 hrs and more time down route listening to his garbage.
However, if he got a real job, then maybe he would spend less time in this forum boring the rest of us? So go on Guv, splash out the 50 quid yourself and give us all a break!
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: thegirth ]
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Ryanair pay a higher wage than BA. Oh yes they do.
Pre Sept 11th their type rating bond was no more than anyone elses. Their pay was at least 8% above Easy for the SAME hours averaged.
Factor in a share bonus and you are already beatiing those poor CEP or DEP salaries that BA offer.
Now apply a command in 3 - 4 years compared ot the Charters or BA 8 - 9 years and you find that for the average under 30 in the industry that Ryan were the best deal in town.
And don't use the old rubbish argument that they work you to death. Ryan work 5 on 3 off 900hrs a year max. Fixed 11 months+ in advance.
PLUS no Ryan pilot has - or will have - reason to worry about their mortgage in the past few weeks. Something hard to quantify...
I don't work for Ryan. I don't work for BA.
If I had to choose between them I, as a youngster, would be mad to choose BA over Ryan...
Things change,
VREF
Pre Sept 11th their type rating bond was no more than anyone elses. Their pay was at least 8% above Easy for the SAME hours averaged.
Factor in a share bonus and you are already beatiing those poor CEP or DEP salaries that BA offer.
Now apply a command in 3 - 4 years compared ot the Charters or BA 8 - 9 years and you find that for the average under 30 in the industry that Ryan were the best deal in town.
And don't use the old rubbish argument that they work you to death. Ryan work 5 on 3 off 900hrs a year max. Fixed 11 months+ in advance.
PLUS no Ryan pilot has - or will have - reason to worry about their mortgage in the past few weeks. Something hard to quantify...
I don't work for Ryan. I don't work for BA.
If I had to choose between them I, as a youngster, would be mad to choose BA over Ryan...
Things change,
VREF
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I'm in two minds about this, one the one hand there is the considerable irritation of being asked to pay in order to apply for a job. In fact I could be wrong but it may in fact be illegal within the EU to be asked to pay to apply for a job.
On the other hand, when I apply to Ryanair, I will be quite serious about it, £50 is neither here nor there. I'm quite sure they like most companies get stacks of mail from wannabe's, dreamers schoolboys and girls and assorted time wasters. I've seen it myself. All this costs money to process. This cuts through the BS.
But I'm not comfortable with it. It smacks of arrogance and profiteering. If I was a Captain with multi thousand hours, the sort of pilot all airlines slaver over. I would tell them to **** themselves. I think it may backfire on them somehow.
Frankly their record is not good in their treatment of prospective employees. I was interviewed for a ground job some time ago. To this day, I have yet to receive to courtesy of a reply, negative or positive. Even a phone call elicited a vague response.
I don't mind not receiving a response from a CV but an interview? A positive one at that.
Strange, very strange.
On the other hand, when I apply to Ryanair, I will be quite serious about it, £50 is neither here nor there. I'm quite sure they like most companies get stacks of mail from wannabe's, dreamers schoolboys and girls and assorted time wasters. I've seen it myself. All this costs money to process. This cuts through the BS.
But I'm not comfortable with it. It smacks of arrogance and profiteering. If I was a Captain with multi thousand hours, the sort of pilot all airlines slaver over. I would tell them to **** themselves. I think it may backfire on them somehow.
Frankly their record is not good in their treatment of prospective employees. I was interviewed for a ground job some time ago. To this day, I have yet to receive to courtesy of a reply, negative or positive. Even a phone call elicited a vague response.
I don't mind not receiving a response from a CV but an interview? A positive one at that.
Strange, very strange.
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Sent Mr Dooney an email expressing my thoughts on the issue...
"you're taking the p*ss, profiteering, how's your leader gonna spin this one on Sky News?" etc.
Anyone in the Press care to pursue a REAL human issue? You could make a name for yourself............
"you're taking the p*ss, profiteering, how's your leader gonna spin this one on Sky News?" etc.
Anyone in the Press care to pursue a REAL human issue? You could make a name for yourself............
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Its always nice to sit and read what people have to say about Ryanair. Firstly Ryanair have been and will continue to extract money from any source. Take an example of a recently laid off pilot with a wife, couple of kids and a hefty mortgage. If he had the chance to join Ryanair, youre damn sure he'ed fork out £50stg (£50stg for an Irish company works out at £62.50IR) for the chance of getting another job in order to pay his debts.
At the end of the day, this is Ryanair getting more free press, no matter how good or bad. Everyone here is talking about it, and I'd say for every 3 people giving out about it, 1 has already applied with their £50! Either way MOL and his fellow directors will get a nice bonus when the profits go up at the end of the year.
Ryanair is a cheap airline for the first few seats after that, add it up! You could go cheaper in Aer Lingus premier after Ryanair add in the charges for airport taxes, credit card fees, excess baggage fees, train tickets, bus tickets, drinks and sandwiches on board, and anything else they can think of before you get off the a/c.
As much as you and I may hate, Ryanair will continue to exploit those on the outside of the loop, frankly theres nothing we can do about it!
At the end of the day, this is Ryanair getting more free press, no matter how good or bad. Everyone here is talking about it, and I'd say for every 3 people giving out about it, 1 has already applied with their £50! Either way MOL and his fellow directors will get a nice bonus when the profits go up at the end of the year.
Ryanair is a cheap airline for the first few seats after that, add it up! You could go cheaper in Aer Lingus premier after Ryanair add in the charges for airport taxes, credit card fees, excess baggage fees, train tickets, bus tickets, drinks and sandwiches on board, and anything else they can think of before you get off the a/c.
As much as you and I may hate, Ryanair will continue to exploit those on the outside of the loop, frankly theres nothing we can do about it!