Manx Airlines to implode ?
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Manx Airlines to implode ?
So, the Monopolies commission hsa decided that the BA / BRAL takeover can go ahead.
Mr T Liddiard is on record saying that the only route that makes money for Manx Airlines ( A subsidiary of the BRAL Group )is the London Heathrow link. The other routes are marginal at best and in some cases make a loss.
Now that the BA takeover of the Bral group is imminent, rumour is rife that the LHR slots are to be passed to BA for more revenue efficient routes.
Yesterday this rumour was not denied by Mr Liddiard and in fact he hinted that as the IoM government would not sanction a "user agreement" and furthermore had allowed competition from BEA into LCY, that Heathrow was no longer profitable.
Therefore with no profitable route operating is the company likely to continue in any form, even as a loss making feeder to BA's onward routes, given that the greatest interlining connections with BA were mostly likely through LHR anyway ?
Mr T Liddiard is on record saying that the only route that makes money for Manx Airlines ( A subsidiary of the BRAL Group )is the London Heathrow link. The other routes are marginal at best and in some cases make a loss.
Now that the BA takeover of the Bral group is imminent, rumour is rife that the LHR slots are to be passed to BA for more revenue efficient routes.
Yesterday this rumour was not denied by Mr Liddiard and in fact he hinted that as the IoM government would not sanction a "user agreement" and furthermore had allowed competition from BEA into LCY, that Heathrow was no longer profitable.
Therefore with no profitable route operating is the company likely to continue in any form, even as a loss making feeder to BA's onward routes, given that the greatest interlining connections with BA were mostly likely through LHR anyway ?
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Surly Manx have a near monopoly from the Isle of Man anyway...
and would the heathrow route be such a loss?
though it would bugger up Manx's profit...
What is the benefit of flying to LHR against travelling on from another point...
and if your going to London .. a number of business men i know prefer LCY from the Island as it is much quicker to the city form LCY..
and would the heathrow route be such a loss?
though it would bugger up Manx's profit...
What is the benefit of flying to LHR against travelling on from another point...
and if your going to London .. a number of business men i know prefer LCY from the Island as it is much quicker to the city form LCY..
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Generally accepted that LHR will go, probably replaced by Gatwick, like the services from Jersey Guernsey. Ridiculous thing is that basically there is not enough business on any Manx routes for two operators. This has been proved by the introduction of Emerald on the Liverpool routes, and Aer Arann on the Dublin, both of which caused everyone to lose money including themselves, before they pulled off. Jersey European have been very clever with the London City route. Amazingly, the Manx Government allowed them a start-up route concession involving basically free landing and handling charges for eighteen months. Add to this, as someone said, that City is a viable destination. Jersey started up with rock bottom fares, and grew the route very nicely, BUT if you now check the fares against the same LHR deals, on similar travel days or periods, there is very little difference.
Manx offered the Manx Govt a deal to retain a Heathrow slot nearly two years back, well before Jersey started with the City. They refused, and went for open skies, as it were. So, they have only themselves to blame if they lose their link with Heathrow. However, it is true that LHR was our most profitable route off the Island. It supported most of the others, to a greater or lesser degree.
What next? Haven't a clue. Like you, we're sure LHR is doomed, but opinion generally is that we'll get LGW like the Channel Islands. As to the longer term - well, pass the chrystal ball, who knows!
Don't knock the Manx management though. BRAL was a bankrupt Loganair before they built it up to what it is now. Hopefully Terry won't sell us down the river as he retires with a pot full of cash.
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What we do in life echoes down the ages........just like my landings !
Manx offered the Manx Govt a deal to retain a Heathrow slot nearly two years back, well before Jersey started with the City. They refused, and went for open skies, as it were. So, they have only themselves to blame if they lose their link with Heathrow. However, it is true that LHR was our most profitable route off the Island. It supported most of the others, to a greater or lesser degree.
What next? Haven't a clue. Like you, we're sure LHR is doomed, but opinion generally is that we'll get LGW like the Channel Islands. As to the longer term - well, pass the chrystal ball, who knows!
Don't knock the Manx management though. BRAL was a bankrupt Loganair before they built it up to what it is now. Hopefully Terry won't sell us down the river as he retires with a pot full of cash.
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What we do in life echoes down the ages........just like my landings !
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maximuss just to correct you on a couple of points firstly if you can remember back to the years of Loganair you,ll probably find that it was one of theU.K's largest regional airlines until a couple of people fell out with the M.D and then began to asset strip the company and hand everything over to Manx and Euromanx. Loganair was one of the first B.A franchises and it still operates today in fact it is expanding v nicely and taking back routes from Bral.
Secondly Aer Arran came of the iom-dub route because of an aircraft shortage, the loads which where being carried were well over 60% daily in fact they carried more pax than Manx did during the time on that route.
p.s watch this space for there return.
Secondly Aer Arran came of the iom-dub route because of an aircraft shortage, the loads which where being carried were well over 60% daily in fact they carried more pax than Manx did during the time on that route.
p.s watch this space for there return.
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Maximuss, interesting reply, but leaving for the moment the potential problem of getting the required slots at LGW ( I understood it was already fully subscribed ), if there is not sufficient capacity for 2 operators as you stated , would not LGW be a potential loss maker too given the reduced interlining options available ?
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Regarding Loganair, I seem to recall it had more to do with the MD publically challenging BA in the Highlands and Islands, and the subsequent response from BA (ie lower fares, better equipment and catering, shorter flight times).
LC hadn't been profitable for some time, and when AoB finally lost patience, it wasn't a big surprise.
LC hadn't been profitable for some time, and when AoB finally lost patience, it wasn't a big surprise.
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Don't know much about Manx, but I can't see BA just giving up on the route and letting Jersey European take all the pax - there's a lot of business there up for grabs.
I DO know about Loganair though, and Islandhopper is talking through his anus. Loganair ceased to make any profits in about 1989, and steadily lost more and more money each year till literal bankrupcy stared old Grier in the face, and Sir Michael lost patience with him. Grier got it wrong on the Gatwick routes, and was not awarded them, he got it wrong with his 146's, and had to sign a disastrously expensive order for loads of J41s he had no routes for. He got it wrong over Sumburgh, trying to develop Scatsta. He got it wrong over his Western Isles routes, trying to use a SD 360 into Barra because he had by then to sell the last Twin Otters to fund the payroll. He also bitterly opposed the GLA nad EDI to SOU routes, and had to overuled by Sir Michael who insisted on them (they proved to be a success). Finally, as Raw Data says, he had the totally lunatic idea of going head to head with BA. Great idea, superb!! (not) By then, things were coming unglued fast, and finally Manx were asked to step in and set things right. Its worth remembering that Manx management actually wanted nothing to do with Loganair, except for the million odd they were owed for maintenance by Loganair, and never did receive!
As for saying Loganair are doing nicely today - please, what on earth are you taking?
How do I know all this ? I was there mates, and I still have nightmares about it. Not an airline, it used to be ajoke. Great ops staff, great pilots, staff - but the management!!!!!!! OMIGOD, there's a good TV soap opera in here somewhere.
[This message has been edited by Captain Jumbo (edited 02 May 2001).]
I DO know about Loganair though, and Islandhopper is talking through his anus. Loganair ceased to make any profits in about 1989, and steadily lost more and more money each year till literal bankrupcy stared old Grier in the face, and Sir Michael lost patience with him. Grier got it wrong on the Gatwick routes, and was not awarded them, he got it wrong with his 146's, and had to sign a disastrously expensive order for loads of J41s he had no routes for. He got it wrong over Sumburgh, trying to develop Scatsta. He got it wrong over his Western Isles routes, trying to use a SD 360 into Barra because he had by then to sell the last Twin Otters to fund the payroll. He also bitterly opposed the GLA nad EDI to SOU routes, and had to overuled by Sir Michael who insisted on them (they proved to be a success). Finally, as Raw Data says, he had the totally lunatic idea of going head to head with BA. Great idea, superb!! (not) By then, things were coming unglued fast, and finally Manx were asked to step in and set things right. Its worth remembering that Manx management actually wanted nothing to do with Loganair, except for the million odd they were owed for maintenance by Loganair, and never did receive!
As for saying Loganair are doing nicely today - please, what on earth are you taking?
How do I know all this ? I was there mates, and I still have nightmares about it. Not an airline, it used to be ajoke. Great ops staff, great pilots, staff - but the management!!!!!!! OMIGOD, there's a good TV soap opera in here somewhere.
[This message has been edited by Captain Jumbo (edited 02 May 2001).]
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And then there was the other great idea Grier had... install a ramp over the spar on the J31. That one allegedly cost about half a million to design, get approved, and implement... and then it was removed as it was regarded by cabin crew as unsafe! VERY well done!!
Capt Jumbo is right in his summation. There was an awful lot of blood spilt when the end finally came. I too was there at the time. Loganair may still exist... but doing well? Don't think so...
Capt Jumbo is right in his summation. There was an awful lot of blood spilt when the end finally came. I too was there at the time. Loganair may still exist... but doing well? Don't think so...
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Personally, I think the BA takeover will have far more positives than negatives. It will take a while to settle down, and for a coherent strategy to emerge, but lets face it, BA bring security, improved pay/conditions and prospects. We already know that Brymon and BRAL are to be moved up to the highest common denominators, so other than the slightly paranoid view of MANX being hived off, its all looking good. As to that latter, why should that happen? Brymon themselves operate a clutch of routes that are far thinner in pax and profit than the Manx services.
No no, the glass is looking 3/4 full to me! And that's without the profit on all my shares yippee!!!
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Arf, arf, arf!!
[This message has been edited by PoodleVelour (edited 03 May 2001).]
No no, the glass is looking 3/4 full to me! And that's without the profit on all my shares yippee!!!
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Arf, arf, arf!!
[This message has been edited by PoodleVelour (edited 03 May 2001).]
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Don't forget the Platinum Air service IOM to Blackpool. It has been running for a few weeks now (having taken over the former COMED route) and apparently it is both popular and profitable. I believe that Platinum will also soon be starting a IOM to Dublin service.
[This message has been edited by Diplomate (edited 06 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Diplomate (edited 06 May 2001).]
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Old Bruce was a cracking pilot, but with a regrettable habit of saying what he thought first, and thinking about who he was talking to second.
Eventually said what he thought of Brewitt TO Brewitt. This moved him from being someone Norman disliked to someone who mysteriously failed his FLC on type. I believe he ended up in the Midddle/Far East, before breaking his back (I heard) in a speedboat accident whilst running booze (yes really!!!). Since then have lost touch, but has been seen with Frank Barker I am told, so maybe flying for Gill.
Hope that helps.
Eventually said what he thought of Brewitt TO Brewitt. This moved him from being someone Norman disliked to someone who mysteriously failed his FLC on type. I believe he ended up in the Midddle/Far East, before breaking his back (I heard) in a speedboat accident whilst running booze (yes really!!!). Since then have lost touch, but has been seen with Frank Barker I am told, so maybe flying for Gill.
Hope that helps.
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Oswaldo,
Thanks a lot for the info about Bruce. I always remember the occasion when crewing phoned him on a standby but he wouldnt come to the phone. Manktelow rang him 10 minutes later demanding an explanation; Bruce answered 'I was defecating'!!!!!!!!!!
Also who was it that photocopied his arse in the EMA crewroom then faxed it KM - a legend!
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'Keep the Stress Down'
Thanks a lot for the info about Bruce. I always remember the occasion when crewing phoned him on a standby but he wouldnt come to the phone. Manktelow rang him 10 minutes later demanding an explanation; Bruce answered 'I was defecating'!!!!!!!!!!
Also who was it that photocopied his arse in the EMA crewroom then faxed it KM - a legend!
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'Keep the Stress Down'