Rastas thrown off plane !
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Another episode here in Scandinavia last week. This time a Premiair (daughter of Airtours) Captain offloaded three Arab (sorry, dunno the country theý´re from) men. They had purchased their vacation the day before, and boarded the flight to, I think Las Palmas.
Their documents were checked and found fine before boarding, but other pax. felt very uncomfortable with them on board, and when they were slow sitting down, they were offloaded by Captain.
That´s how I remember the story from the newspaper, and the way I understood it, Premiair might have some explaining to do, even though the three were reimbursed their ticket costs.
Their documents were checked and found fine before boarding, but other pax. felt very uncomfortable with them on board, and when they were slow sitting down, they were offloaded by Captain.
That´s how I remember the story from the newspaper, and the way I understood it, Premiair might have some explaining to do, even though the three were reimbursed their ticket costs.
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well they both have beards and arnt white so i guess these guys are lucky not to have had a 2000lb bomb waiting for them when they got back to houndslow.
JMC ought to be more conciliatory as UK anti discrimination laws almost certainly make what they have done illegal and i for one expect a test case on this issue before to long. what next T shirt profiling?
Haile Selassie was a man of peace, if you get the time try to read the speach he gave before the UN in 1968 Haile Selasi the trendy cats amongst you already know part of the speach, bob marley wrote the song "war" around it. there is also a picture of him so you can judge the similarity for yourselves - he's the one on the right
Jah rastafari
[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo ]
JMC ought to be more conciliatory as UK anti discrimination laws almost certainly make what they have done illegal and i for one expect a test case on this issue before to long. what next T shirt profiling?
Haile Selassie was a man of peace, if you get the time try to read the speach he gave before the UN in 1968 Haile Selasi the trendy cats amongst you already know part of the speach, bob marley wrote the song "war" around it. there is also a picture of him so you can judge the similarity for yourselves - he's the one on the right
Jah rastafari
[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo ]
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While I am not a defender of JMC's stupid management in any way shape or form, has anyone considered the possibility that this Aircrafts crew were set up by this pair looking to get rich in a lawsuit.
We do not know how the pax behaved, and it doesn't matter how they are dressed if they don't respond to certain security questions correctly they WILL be offloaded.
The rest of it could be a red herring! Maybe they were looking to get ejected.
Cheers
Wino
We do not know how the pax behaved, and it doesn't matter how they are dressed if they don't respond to certain security questions correctly they WILL be offloaded.
The rest of it could be a red herring! Maybe they were looking to get ejected.
Cheers
Wino
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WINO
yes its possible they were looking for lawsuit in order to afford a decent holiday - rastas on the costa, the world really has gone mad! but they still have to be thrown of the plane before they can call their brief and maybe the bait was swallowed and JMC have been reeled in.
however imagine this: there you are sitting in J wearing a royal marines tie pin, down comes purser sees you with a pointy piece of military insignia and demands that you take the offensive (rather than offending) item off........ if you know any servicemen you will understand it rather depends on how the request is framed
yes its possible they were looking for lawsuit in order to afford a decent holiday - rastas on the costa, the world really has gone mad! but they still have to be thrown of the plane before they can call their brief and maybe the bait was swallowed and JMC have been reeled in.
however imagine this: there you are sitting in J wearing a royal marines tie pin, down comes purser sees you with a pointy piece of military insignia and demands that you take the offensive (rather than offending) item off........ if you know any servicemen you will understand it rather depends on how the request is framed
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This wasn't entirely the pursers decision to have the two gents offloaded. Captain was informed that they weren't co-operating with questions asked of them. Whether this was down to the attitude of purser, i don't know.
Captains decision was to inform the police.
O2
Captains decision was to inform the police.
O2
I had an arsehole transplant but the arsehole rejected me, which is why I write such rubbish
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Amazing;
If the NJT (New Jersey Transit) and MTA NY (Metro Transit Authority ...commuter trains) took time to eject every person from the Middle East, there would be few if any riders.
Imagine how these poor sods felt 2 day after the WTC getting on a train with all the other passengers glaring at them??
Reality is life. You can either overreact, live in fear or deal with it. It's far easier for me to deal with it than people of
Middle Eastern origin who are just trying to go about their way of life.
Very sad...
If the NJT (New Jersey Transit) and MTA NY (Metro Transit Authority ...commuter trains) took time to eject every person from the Middle East, there would be few if any riders.
Imagine how these poor sods felt 2 day after the WTC getting on a train with all the other passengers glaring at them??
Reality is life. You can either overreact, live in fear or deal with it. It's far easier for me to deal with it than people of
Middle Eastern origin who are just trying to go about their way of life.
Very sad...
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Its not easy being a Rasta nowadays.
You follow your religion, smoke some top quality green, go flying in your own front garden, and risk being nicked.
You then turn up for you first legal "flight" of the year, and end up getting nicked.
Such irony.
You follow your religion, smoke some top quality green, go flying in your own front garden, and risk being nicked.
You then turn up for you first legal "flight" of the year, and end up getting nicked.
Such irony.
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Without reference to the Rasta's ejected, or to the inexperience or otherwise of the hostess, or to the manner in which she asked, it simply cannot have escaped any passenger flying after the 11th that extraordinary actions on board a number of aircraft resulted in the deaths of over 6,000 people.
In light of this it would behove ANY passenger to fully co-operate with ANY member of the crew whether or not they felt it insulted them or slighted them if they wish to avoid just such an incident. These people did not and the result was predictable. Any member of the public traveling in these times would do well to simply co-operate and realise that these are not normal times.
With reference to the Guv. He is not the most well liked on the site and I personaly do not always agree with what he says however some of the rather childish knee jerk re-actions to whatever he says and in total disregard to the relative merits of what he has said are rather puerile and worthy of the same contempt that they are expressing for him.
In light of this it would behove ANY passenger to fully co-operate with ANY member of the crew whether or not they felt it insulted them or slighted them if they wish to avoid just such an incident. These people did not and the result was predictable. Any member of the public traveling in these times would do well to simply co-operate and realise that these are not normal times.
With reference to the Guv. He is not the most well liked on the site and I personaly do not always agree with what he says however some of the rather childish knee jerk re-actions to whatever he says and in total disregard to the relative merits of what he has said are rather puerile and worthy of the same contempt that they are expressing for him.
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Also with reference to the Guv - maybe the issue is one of over-contribution. Whose opinion do you value more - the one who talks a good game or the one who is actually playing in it? I prefer to listen to an experienced Operations Director or Chief Pilot who contributes occasionally yet has so much genuine knowledge of the industry. There again, I could choose to listen to someone sat 8 hours a day in front of a computer playing 'Fantasay Chief Pilot' and be convinced I was listening to "one of the most Dynamic Members of this Forum". I know whose opinion I put most store by.
I think that it's fantasy CEO he plays at 
. The Guv is not my cup of tea, and he knows it, but some of his postings do have merit. I took his post in this thread with the humour that was intended. I often wondered if JMC's livery itself wasn't a threat to airline security .
. The Guv is not my cup of tea, and he knows it, but some of his postings do have merit. I took his post in this thread with the humour that was intended. I often wondered if JMC's livery itself wasn't a threat to airline security .
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OK, OK guys! The purser on the said flight made a mistake! The Captain would have asked her if she had any doubts. If she said yes, then the pax would have been off loaded. Now OBVIOUSLY this was the incorrect decision, but I hardly think this original thread was ment for JMC bashing! I appreciate that some people have greavences against the company, as every company has, but it is interesting to see some of the posts on here!
As usual the thread turned rapidly into a slagging match. I work for JMC and yes it looks like they made a mistake @ LGW, however the story is never a simple as its made out to be. Please dont let this descend into the usual mud slinging!? "Just the facts m'am."
As to the person who posted that he "knew there was a reason why he didnt fly JMC"....Prey tell who do you fly with? If it is a charter I would LOVE to know what they do that we don't!
Eff Oh
As usual the thread turned rapidly into a slagging match. I work for JMC and yes it looks like they made a mistake @ LGW, however the story is never a simple as its made out to be. Please dont let this descend into the usual mud slinging!? "Just the facts m'am."
As to the person who posted that he "knew there was a reason why he didnt fly JMC"....Prey tell who do you fly with? If it is a charter I would LOVE to know what they do that we don't!
Eff Oh
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Eff Oh, the simple facts in this case are that the CSD in this incident does not know the difference between a Muslim and a Rastafarian, and does not recognise the difference between Haile Selassie and Osama Bin Laden.
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"Is it coz I is Black?"
If Aircrew, Security Staff and the likes are seen to be questioning non-whites more than white's then the lawsuits will start flying. These gentlemen may not have helped themselves by being non-cooperative in response to questions but probably having suffered throughout their life from racism it easy to understand why they are cynical.
We have to realise that Bin Laden's followers are unlikely to wander down to their local branch of Thomas Cook and buy a two week package to Costa del Crime. I'd me more worried about sharing an aircraft with some of the ex-pat residents of that locale than a couple of chilled out Rasta's!
If Aircrew, Security Staff and the likes are seen to be questioning non-whites more than white's then the lawsuits will start flying. These gentlemen may not have helped themselves by being non-cooperative in response to questions but probably having suffered throughout their life from racism it easy to understand why they are cynical.
We have to realise that Bin Laden's followers are unlikely to wander down to their local branch of Thomas Cook and buy a two week package to Costa del Crime. I'd me more worried about sharing an aircraft with some of the ex-pat residents of that locale than a couple of chilled out Rasta's!
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HugMonster Your statement "recognise the differnce between a Muslim and a Rastafarian" assumes that all Rastafarians are Afro-Carribean and all Muslims are Middle Eastern. Islam is practiced throughout the world and its followers are from many diverse ethnic backgrounds.
I am sure the purser did not go into the flight deck and say "I've got 2 muslims in the back" or "2 Rastas" she probably informed the skipper that she had 2 gentlemen who would not answer her questions.
Now that is a minefield; did she ask them questions based purely on their attire or did something else bring them to her attention. Does she have the right to do so bearing in mind recent tragic events? Was she guilty of racial stereotypeing and if so how can we avoid that in the future, whilst at the same time recognising the fact that there does exist a small group of well funded and highly motivated terrorists whose origins are in the middle east.
Had these two gentlemen said "look love we are Rastafarians and this is a picture of our spiritual leader Haile Selaisse" then I am sure He/She would have been apologetic and the matter would have been resolved. Easy for me to say being white but this was an oppotunity to educate. In a multi-cultural society there has to be some give and take.
Had they been offended by the manner in which they were questioned then they could easily have filed a complaint either with the airline or a statutory body.
Out of interest I went to school in south London and lived for a few years in Brixton and would never have recognised the fella!
BTW this flight is actually a scheduled service and a colleague and I were discussing a few days previously how it would be more easily targeted than a charter flight.
I am sure the purser did not go into the flight deck and say "I've got 2 muslims in the back" or "2 Rastas" she probably informed the skipper that she had 2 gentlemen who would not answer her questions.
Now that is a minefield; did she ask them questions based purely on their attire or did something else bring them to her attention. Does she have the right to do so bearing in mind recent tragic events? Was she guilty of racial stereotypeing and if so how can we avoid that in the future, whilst at the same time recognising the fact that there does exist a small group of well funded and highly motivated terrorists whose origins are in the middle east.
Had these two gentlemen said "look love we are Rastafarians and this is a picture of our spiritual leader Haile Selaisse" then I am sure He/She would have been apologetic and the matter would have been resolved. Easy for me to say being white but this was an oppotunity to educate. In a multi-cultural society there has to be some give and take.
Had they been offended by the manner in which they were questioned then they could easily have filed a complaint either with the airline or a statutory body.
Out of interest I went to school in south London and lived for a few years in Brixton and would never have recognised the fella!
BTW this flight is actually a scheduled service and a colleague and I were discussing a few days previously how it would be more easily targeted than a charter flight.
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Well this is what happens when the cabin is in the charge of kids barely out of their teens with a year's flying experience and the rest of the cabin crew joined last spring and leave next week.
Bring back the ex-cally CSC's who were so shamefully forced out by FCL and their dreadful culture!
Bring back the ex-cally CSC's who were so shamefully forced out by FCL and their dreadful culture!
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No, wobblehead (good name, BTW! ) it does not assume anything of the sort. I have lived in the Caribbean long enough to have seen and met many Rastafarians from all ethnic groups. I have met Afro-Caribbean Rastas, British Rastas, American Rastas, even a Swedish Rasta. I also have friends of many ethnic origins who are Muslims - Arabs, Indonesians, Brits, etc. etc.
I can tell the difference between a religion and an ethnic origin. Let's hope that more people learn it. It's a shame the hostie in this case couldn't tell any difference at all.
All speculation about who said what is just that - speculation, and therefore worthless.
) it does not assume anything of the sort. I have lived in the Caribbean long enough to have seen and met many Rastafarians from all ethnic groups. I have met Afro-Caribbean Rastas, British Rastas, American Rastas, even a Swedish Rasta. I also have friends of many ethnic origins who are Muslims - Arabs, Indonesians, Brits, etc. etc.I can tell the difference between a religion and an ethnic origin. Let's hope that more people learn it. It's a shame the hostie in this case couldn't tell any difference at all.
All speculation about who said what is just that - speculation, and therefore worthless.