GO to quit DUB??
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GO to quit DUB??
A mail I got from Go Mail contained the following excerpts:
"Today Go announces that its launching a new UK base at East Midlands Airport. To help accommodate this expansion, aircraft will need to be re-deployed from Scotland to the Midlands and as a result Go will not be extending its services between Dublin and Scotland beyond 21 March 2002."
This would seem to suggest that services will not rise above the current level provided, however, this follows:
"We came to Dublin to offer low fares on routes where none previously existed. With Ryanair's changes it makes sense for us to shift our capacity and offer low fares in a completely new area. We thank our customers for their support, and our message to travellers to Scotland is: you've got until March to take advantage of Go's spectacularly low fares."
This latter part suggests a total withdrawal from the routes, i.e. after March, if Go's low fares will be unavailable, is it because they are going "high fare" (unlikely methinks and anyway they'd hardly advertise that fact) or are actually withdrawing??
Is this the first major scalp for Ryanair in the low cost wars?
"Today Go announces that its launching a new UK base at East Midlands Airport. To help accommodate this expansion, aircraft will need to be re-deployed from Scotland to the Midlands and as a result Go will not be extending its services between Dublin and Scotland beyond 21 March 2002."
This would seem to suggest that services will not rise above the current level provided, however, this follows:
"We came to Dublin to offer low fares on routes where none previously existed. With Ryanair's changes it makes sense for us to shift our capacity and offer low fares in a completely new area. We thank our customers for their support, and our message to travellers to Scotland is: you've got until March to take advantage of Go's spectacularly low fares."
This latter part suggests a total withdrawal from the routes, i.e. after March, if Go's low fares will be unavailable, is it because they are going "high fare" (unlikely methinks and anyway they'd hardly advertise that fact) or are actually withdrawing??
Is this the first major scalp for Ryanair in the low cost wars?
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Predatory pricing by Ryanair used to drive out competition.
Sounds just like the good old days.
Ryanair have become the bullies of the business, slipping comfortably into the protectionist practices of the old flag carriers.
If he raises prices in March I hope some punter takes him to the competitions authority.
Sounds just like the good old days.
Ryanair have become the bullies of the business, slipping comfortably into the protectionist practices of the old flag carriers.
If he raises prices in March I hope some punter takes him to the competitions authority.
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From To-day's Irish Times Breaking News:
Low-cost airline Go to quit Dublin routes For more business news visit [email protected]
By Cathal Hanley Last updated: 13-12-01, 13:11
British low-cost airline Go is to pull out of its routes from Dublin to Glasgow and Edinburgh from March of next year after only six months in operation.
The company has blamed a price war with Ryanair for its decision. Go competes with Ryanair and Aer Lingus on the Glasgow route and with Aer Lingus alone on the Edinburgh route.
Go set up in Dublin in September offering flights to Edinburgh and Glasgow for as little as £45 and expected to carry up to 500,000 passengers on the routes.
There will be no direct impact on jobs here as Go uses ground handling agents Servisair for their operations in Dublin.
The company has not ruled out opening routes from Ireland in the future.
It's a Dog Eat Dog World!!
Low-cost airline Go to quit Dublin routes For more business news visit [email protected]
By Cathal Hanley Last updated: 13-12-01, 13:11
British low-cost airline Go is to pull out of its routes from Dublin to Glasgow and Edinburgh from March of next year after only six months in operation.
The company has blamed a price war with Ryanair for its decision. Go competes with Ryanair and Aer Lingus on the Glasgow route and with Aer Lingus alone on the Edinburgh route.
Go set up in Dublin in September offering flights to Edinburgh and Glasgow for as little as £45 and expected to carry up to 500,000 passengers on the routes.
There will be no direct impact on jobs here as Go uses ground handling agents Servisair for their operations in Dublin.
The company has not ruled out opening routes from Ireland in the future.
It's a Dog Eat Dog World!!
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What a brilliant victory for Ryanair and thoroughly deserved it is as well!!!
Go were mad to take on Ryanair and they must have known from day 1 that FR would do anything to beat them. What on earth was their marketing team thinking when they suggested to move into DUB?
Well done FR for blowing away a sad attempt of a cheap copy.
Go were mad to take on Ryanair and they must have known from day 1 that FR would do anything to beat them. What on earth was their marketing team thinking when they suggested to move into DUB?
Well done FR for blowing away a sad attempt of a cheap copy.
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Uncle Monty
Do you suggest above that TheflyingIrishman is a 'psycho' or a 'sycophant'?
The former would certainly be actionable at law unless you can prove a psychopathic personality. The latter is somewhat less problematic in that it merely suggests a personality given to creeping and toadying that may well fit the greater part of today's UK and Irish pilot population.
Do you suggest above that TheflyingIrishman is a 'psycho' or a 'sycophant'?
The former would certainly be actionable at law unless you can prove a psychopathic personality. The latter is somewhat less problematic in that it merely suggests a personality given to creeping and toadying that may well fit the greater part of today's UK and Irish pilot population.
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It will be good for both FR and Irish tourism once the incapable government realises that FR have come to the rescue of tourism. However, to prove their point they can't afford to develop new routes and have to pervent everyone else from doing so. Their day will come eventually and they'll have their way.
All of you out there slagging off FR should remember that they're the only airline not only talking the talk but also walking the walk, this more than proves my point.
RYANAIR RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of you out there slagging off FR should remember that they're the only airline not only talking the talk but also walking the walk, this more than proves my point.
RYANAIR RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The FlyingIrishman: You say Go are a "sad attempt at a cheap copy"
You idiot, this statement does nothing but demonstrate that you have actually flown on neither carrier. Flown with both to EDI and GLA and Go have been cheaper more often than not, the cabin service is better and the aircraft newer and cleaner.
And what the hell do you mean by "they're the only airline not only talking the talk but also walking the walk"?? Do you mean low salaries? If so you're right, but I suspect you don't. I suspect you mean low fares, if so, refer to previous paragraph. So your point is more shattered than proven.
Don't get me wrong, FR are an invaluable asset to the flying public of Ireland (and everywhere they serve), but neither should people blindly worship them. You clearly don't remember the pre FR days if you actually think competition being driven off a route ex-DUB is a good thing. The only people who win here are the airlines, certainly not the public and as your comments clearly state you are not a pilot, it's people like you who will suffer.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: ElNino ]
You idiot, this statement does nothing but demonstrate that you have actually flown on neither carrier. Flown with both to EDI and GLA and Go have been cheaper more often than not, the cabin service is better and the aircraft newer and cleaner.
And what the hell do you mean by "they're the only airline not only talking the talk but also walking the walk"?? Do you mean low salaries? If so you're right, but I suspect you don't. I suspect you mean low fares, if so, refer to previous paragraph. So your point is more shattered than proven.
Don't get me wrong, FR are an invaluable asset to the flying public of Ireland (and everywhere they serve), but neither should people blindly worship them. You clearly don't remember the pre FR days if you actually think competition being driven off a route ex-DUB is a good thing. The only people who win here are the airlines, certainly not the public and as your comments clearly state you are not a pilot, it's people like you who will suffer.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: ElNino ]
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Flying Irishman, do you really think you are better off or that tourism or whatever is better off with the departure of GO?.
Do you honestly believe that Mick gives a flying u know what about anything other than his bottom line and himself.
Sorry but abusing your dominant position as the largest low fares carrier in Europe to squeeze out another player is not being a "king of low fares"..... it is illegal (very illegal in fact!). Remember BA and Laker.
Predatory pricing is the policy of price cutting by a firm in a dominant market position designed to reduce or eliminate the competition it faces so as to enable the firm to reap higher profits at a later stage following the dimunition in competition which has occured as the result of predation.
Wait until April when Ryanair put their prices back up to where they were at before.
But on a lighter note I was delighted to see Capt Duffy get duly compensated for his unfair dismissal from the same company, he settled his case despite the complete lack of support from his pilot collegues.
Do you honestly believe that Mick gives a flying u know what about anything other than his bottom line and himself.
Sorry but abusing your dominant position as the largest low fares carrier in Europe to squeeze out another player is not being a "king of low fares"..... it is illegal (very illegal in fact!). Remember BA and Laker.
Predatory pricing is the policy of price cutting by a firm in a dominant market position designed to reduce or eliminate the competition it faces so as to enable the firm to reap higher profits at a later stage following the dimunition in competition which has occured as the result of predation.
Wait until April when Ryanair put their prices back up to where they were at before.
But on a lighter note I was delighted to see Capt Duffy get duly compensated for his unfair dismissal from the same company, he settled his case despite the complete lack of support from his pilot collegues.
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FlyingIrishman
In what way exactly is it that having less airlines into Dublin from Scotland is good for Irish tourism. Less seats to Dublin (which is bound to lead to higher FR fares from both ends of the routes) sounds like it is only good for FR to me. Do you really think MOL is so ruthless just to help Irish tourism - me thinks not! Ryanair are becoming a bit like BA in the old days - hate the idea of someone getting on well on a route when it 'should' be them. Eventually, someone will throw the FR dummy back in the FR pram and hopefully cause them a bit of FRiggin' harm.
In what way exactly is it that having less airlines into Dublin from Scotland is good for Irish tourism. Less seats to Dublin (which is bound to lead to higher FR fares from both ends of the routes) sounds like it is only good for FR to me. Do you really think MOL is so ruthless just to help Irish tourism - me thinks not! Ryanair are becoming a bit like BA in the old days - hate the idea of someone getting on well on a route when it 'should' be them. Eventually, someone will throw the FR dummy back in the FR pram and hopefully cause them a bit of FRiggin' harm.
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It would be nice if both the media and people posting here could get their facts correct.
Let's correct some of the errors so far.
1. FR operate to both Glasgow and Edinburgh, they in fact started on the EDI to provide direct competiton to GO, having previously ignored the route.
2. GO are NOT handled by Servisair in Dublin, they are the only passenger customer of Reed, who brought in a lot of equipment to be able to handle the work.
I suspect there may be some more errors to correct, but these are the 2 most apparent at the moment
Let's correct some of the errors so far.
1. FR operate to both Glasgow and Edinburgh, they in fact started on the EDI to provide direct competiton to GO, having previously ignored the route.
2. GO are NOT handled by Servisair in Dublin, they are the only passenger customer of Reed, who brought in a lot of equipment to be able to handle the work.
I suspect there may be some more errors to correct, but these are the 2 most apparent at the moment
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ElNino:
You obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about, why don't you f**k off and accept an FR victory and get your facts straight before making accusations.
1. Yes granted FR fly 737-200's and they may be not quite as nice as Go's -300's but they are reliable aircraft that will get you from A to B.
2. FR will ALWAYS be cheaper as they operate a price guarantee policy which states that in case you do find a cheaper offer, they will match the quote and refund you twice the difference.
3. FR is among the top 3 airlines in Europe and has been profitable for 11 consecutive years. Ryanair haven't manage to lose as much money as Go has in 1 year, over the 16 years the airline has been running.
So here you have the facts and nothing but facts so that means you can take your arguments and stick them where the sun won't shine.
mens rea:
1. O'Leary is a profit orientated businessman that knows how to handle competition. He is not running a charity and can't afford to either! He is interested in Irish tourism but on the terms that he can deliver tourists because none of the other losers are able to.
2. You didn't really expect him to quietly sit back and watch Go eat into what are now his profits. And anyway, supposing FR hadn't entered the EDI market what do you think Go would have done after their promotional offers? Not flying people for free!!!
[ 13 December 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
You obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about, why don't you f**k off and accept an FR victory and get your facts straight before making accusations.
1. Yes granted FR fly 737-200's and they may be not quite as nice as Go's -300's but they are reliable aircraft that will get you from A to B.
2. FR will ALWAYS be cheaper as they operate a price guarantee policy which states that in case you do find a cheaper offer, they will match the quote and refund you twice the difference.
3. FR is among the top 3 airlines in Europe and has been profitable for 11 consecutive years. Ryanair haven't manage to lose as much money as Go has in 1 year, over the 16 years the airline has been running.
So here you have the facts and nothing but facts so that means you can take your arguments and stick them where the sun won't shine.
mens rea:
1. O'Leary is a profit orientated businessman that knows how to handle competition. He is not running a charity and can't afford to either! He is interested in Irish tourism but on the terms that he can deliver tourists because none of the other losers are able to.
2. You didn't really expect him to quietly sit back and watch Go eat into what are now his profits. And anyway, supposing FR hadn't entered the EDI market what do you think Go would have done after their promotional offers? Not flying people for free!!!
[ 13 December 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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All I have to say to that is:
TIME WILL TELL
and to all you doubters out there, people used the same arguments against Herb Kelleher and Southwest Airlines and look at their figures, they speak for themselves.
Ryanair will hold that exact same position in Europe in a few years time and Michael O'Leary will lead them there.
TIME WILL TELL
and to all you doubters out there, people used the same arguments against Herb Kelleher and Southwest Airlines and look at their figures, they speak for themselves.
Ryanair will hold that exact same position in Europe in a few years time and Michael O'Leary will lead them there.
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TheFlyingIrishman
You said:
-------------------
1. Yes granted FR fly 737-200's and they may be not quite as nice as Go's -300's but they are reliable aircraft that will get you from A to B.
-------------------
The model of 73 is irrelevant, my point was that the Go aircraft are cleaner inside and that the cabin service is better. The type of engines and avionics of the aircraft matters not a toss to this.
Also said
-------------------
2. FR will ALWAYS be cheaper as they operate a price guarantee policy which states that in case you do find a cheaper offer, they will match the quote and refund you twice the difference.
-------------------
True, but they will find any flight on the same day with a cheaper price and quote that to you. Now this not much use if that flight is not at a convenient time. As I've said before, you clearly have never flown on either carrier thus probably have never searched for prices, so take it from me who has on many occasions, Go can be cheaper on certain flights at comparable times.
And:
---------------
3. FR is among the top 3 airlines in Europe and has been profitable for 11 consecutive years. Ryanair haven't manage to lose as much money as Go has in 1 year, over the 16 years the airline has been running.
---------------
So what you're saying is, because one airline is successful, nobody else need bother trying cos they won't have a clue. By this rationale, Ryanair shouldn't have bothered taking on BA who will make their first loss since privatisation this year. Given that FR lost money hand over fist for the first few years I'd imagine your last statement is incorrect.
Your arguments are vague and hypocritical at best.
I'd like to re-iterate again, I've a lot of respect for Ryanair, its just they're not the be all and the end all. Plenty of other carriers are capable of an equally good job (whilst treating the pilots better!).
You said:
-------------------
1. Yes granted FR fly 737-200's and they may be not quite as nice as Go's -300's but they are reliable aircraft that will get you from A to B.
-------------------
The model of 73 is irrelevant, my point was that the Go aircraft are cleaner inside and that the cabin service is better. The type of engines and avionics of the aircraft matters not a toss to this.
Also said
-------------------
2. FR will ALWAYS be cheaper as they operate a price guarantee policy which states that in case you do find a cheaper offer, they will match the quote and refund you twice the difference.
-------------------
True, but they will find any flight on the same day with a cheaper price and quote that to you. Now this not much use if that flight is not at a convenient time. As I've said before, you clearly have never flown on either carrier thus probably have never searched for prices, so take it from me who has on many occasions, Go can be cheaper on certain flights at comparable times.
And:
---------------
3. FR is among the top 3 airlines in Europe and has been profitable for 11 consecutive years. Ryanair haven't manage to lose as much money as Go has in 1 year, over the 16 years the airline has been running.
---------------
So what you're saying is, because one airline is successful, nobody else need bother trying cos they won't have a clue. By this rationale, Ryanair shouldn't have bothered taking on BA who will make their first loss since privatisation this year. Given that FR lost money hand over fist for the first few years I'd imagine your last statement is incorrect.
Your arguments are vague and hypocritical at best.
I'd like to re-iterate again, I've a lot of respect for Ryanair, its just they're not the be all and the end all. Plenty of other carriers are capable of an equally good job (whilst treating the pilots better!).
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A sad loss. In the last three eeks I've bought 3 GO tickets and one Ryanair. Both equally good but the three Go tickets in total were still 50% less than 1 FR ticket.
Not so low cost me thinks.
Best of luck to the Go chaps in their new routes. I just hope the Ryan don't use this victory as an excuse to jack up prices too much
Not so low cost me thinks.
Best of luck to the Go chaps in their new routes. I just hope the Ryan don't use this victory as an excuse to jack up prices too much
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The time for Ryanair will come when these secondary airports used realise that, to make a profit themselves, they will have to charge a realistic landing/passenger fee.
In addition the European Commission will see these so called "marketing" payments for what they really are - subsidies. EC law requires that subsidies are subject to a tender process.
What then for the FR profit margin? If prices go up, the attraction of using secondary airports will diminish except for those people where the airports is genuinely the most convenient for their requirements.
EZYs spat with Luton should remind budget airlines that they cannot expect the airports to subsidise their operations ad infinitum.
I still think that, should FR put their fares up on EDI/GLA to DUB after GOs withdrawal, there will be a very good court case for predatory pricing This would especially apply for EDI to DUB as MOL has clearly stated in the past that this route was not under consideration due to rapacious fees from BAA, but quickly changed his mind when the upstart airline had the temerity to challenge his monopoly.
Hugo
In addition the European Commission will see these so called "marketing" payments for what they really are - subsidies. EC law requires that subsidies are subject to a tender process.
What then for the FR profit margin? If prices go up, the attraction of using secondary airports will diminish except for those people where the airports is genuinely the most convenient for their requirements.
EZYs spat with Luton should remind budget airlines that they cannot expect the airports to subsidise their operations ad infinitum.
I still think that, should FR put their fares up on EDI/GLA to DUB after GOs withdrawal, there will be a very good court case for predatory pricing This would especially apply for EDI to DUB as MOL has clearly stated in the past that this route was not under consideration due to rapacious fees from BAA, but quickly changed his mind when the upstart airline had the temerity to challenge his monopoly.
Hugo
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Can't see Ryanair increasing prices on the EDI route beyond their normal DUB-UK pricing, but would question their commitment to the route, especially rotations per day. Expect threats of withdrawal due to exorbitant BAA charges and all the other ploys we have come to know and love from O'Leary.
Sorry to see Go off the route, but at least their six months on the route has left us with some competition for Aer Lingus, which we would not have had otherwise.
Sorry to see Go off the route, but at least their six months on the route has left us with some competition for Aer Lingus, which we would not have had otherwise.
