The King is dead
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I often wonder what goes through the minds of people when they write posts on this website.
When somebody writes something serious, why do people feel the need to take the piss or have a go??
Gets me every time.
When somebody writes something serious, why do people feel the need to take the piss or have a go??
Gets me every time.
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HZ123 - I think what you meant to say is "BA's shareholders have a lot to thank him for".
And, wrt "LK loved KRUG, fine cigars and personality girls".... well how delightful for him that he could afford such luxuries !
And, wrt "With regard to dirty tricks then he was years ahead of his time" - one hopes that you're not suggesting that this is acceptable practice ?!
Do remember that BA's 'dirty tricks' had the potential to, and did indeed, lead to substantial losses by a great many people (people who, for the most part, could least afford the loss).
It's reported that LK died on his 2,000-acre Wartnaby estate (alright for some !)..... maybe his widow would like to donate some of it to the poor buggers who were effected by her late husbands antics.
And, wrt "LK loved KRUG, fine cigars and personality girls".... well how delightful for him that he could afford such luxuries !
And, wrt "With regard to dirty tricks then he was years ahead of his time" - one hopes that you're not suggesting that this is acceptable practice ?!
Do remember that BA's 'dirty tricks' had the potential to, and did indeed, lead to substantial losses by a great many people (people who, for the most part, could least afford the loss).
It's reported that LK died on his 2,000-acre Wartnaby estate (alright for some !)..... maybe his widow would like to donate some of it to the poor buggers who were effected by her late husbands antics.
Controversial, moi?
This thread and the comments therein disgust me.
Why not start another thread entitled 'Somewhere I can post my hatred and personal predjudices whatever the facts'?
I prefer to remember him for his considerable achievements in life not least the amazingly good things he achieved with BEA/BOAC/BA. He was a hard act to follow.
Why not start another thread entitled 'Somewhere I can post my hatred and personal predjudices whatever the facts'?
I prefer to remember him for his considerable achievements in life not least the amazingly good things he achieved with BEA/BOAC/BA. He was a hard act to follow.
Recidivist
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Is my memory playing me tricks or was LK not given (foc) a large fleet of aircraft from which to make a profit?
As a very lowly (Aviation Traders, Southend) ex-employee of Sir Freddie I would have loved to see him make more of his business, without the 'help' from LK.
As a very lowly (Aviation Traders, Southend) ex-employee of Sir Freddie I would have loved to see him make more of his business, without the 'help' from LK.
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Helen49 - why, in your humble opinion, should expressing what you describe as caustic comment effect ones fitness (as you put it) to hold a position in the pointy end ?!
The fact of the matter is, and whether you like it or not, that LK + BA was found guilty in the UK courts of having libelled Richard Branson & Virgin Atlantic, in respect of the 'dirty tricks' all of which occurred under LK's tenure; or are you disputing this as fact ?!
Ok, so how about this version of a homily to the man.... ? (albeit perhaps somewhat in the same vein as Private Eyes homily to the late Lady Di)
The fact of the matter is, and whether you like it or not, that LK + BA was found guilty in the UK courts of having libelled Richard Branson & Virgin Atlantic, in respect of the 'dirty tricks' all of which occurred under LK's tenure; or are you disputing this as fact ?!
Ok, so how about this version of a homily to the man.... ? (albeit perhaps somewhat in the same vein as Private Eyes homily to the late Lady Di)
IN recent weeks (not to mention the last twenty years) we at the Daily Gnome, in common with many others, may have inadvertently conveyed the impression that the late Lord King was in some way a manipulative troublemaker whom was not averse to conducting underhand campaigns with the intent of discrediting rival businesses and their owners . We now realise as of Tuesday that Lord King was in fact the most saintly man who has ever lived, who, with his charitable activities, brought hope and succour to hundreds and millions of people all over the world. We would like to express our sincere and deepest hypocrisy to all our customers during these tragic days and hope and pray that they will carry on flying with British Airways notwithstanding.
The Cooler King
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JW411......
I am sorry to have opened old wounds which must be fragile at the best of times.
This apology would have come sooner only I have not visited the site since I made that comment.
Sincere regards
Farrell
I am sorry to have opened old wounds which must be fragile at the best of times.
This apology would have come sooner only I have not visited the site since I made that comment.
Sincere regards
Farrell
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"King, Marshall and similar reptiles are the reason why I will NEVER fly ba unless there is no feasible alternative"
S'funny. I fly whichever airline gets me to where I want to go at the time I need to be there. Am I the only one who can't afford to be choosy? In spite of all the airlines out there, there are not many who can fly to a European destination and back in one day, with a resonable amount of time on the ground for a meeting.
Lord King did a job at BA. I don't suppose for a minute that any casualties of his reign were picked out personally by him from long parchment scrolls of names.
You're either a victim in this life or a winner. Whichever you are, this guy has died.
Respect.
S'funny. I fly whichever airline gets me to where I want to go at the time I need to be there. Am I the only one who can't afford to be choosy? In spite of all the airlines out there, there are not many who can fly to a European destination and back in one day, with a resonable amount of time on the ground for a meeting.
Lord King did a job at BA. I don't suppose for a minute that any casualties of his reign were picked out personally by him from long parchment scrolls of names.
You're either a victim in this life or a winner. Whichever you are, this guy has died.
Respect.
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Dylsexlic - wrt 'I don't suppose for a minute that any casualties of his reign were picked out personally by him from long parchment scrolls of names'.... err, isn't that akin to the defence that many at the top have used when they've been called to task, and / or coupled with that lovely phrase "Ve vere only following ze orders" ?! 
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A person, not a something, has died and before he's even cold we're slagging him on a public forum - so apologies to his family if they happen to read this and it causes them even more upset than they no doubt are suffering at this moment.
Stalin once said ' if one person dies it's a tragedy, but if a million die it's just a statistic ' I think we should feel a little bit the same here for the sake of his family.
But I'm afraid I'm a little bit with OKC and others on this.
I'm German, lived down here for a couple of decades after a few years training and being based in the UK, still have relatives who are more or less British in the UK, never worked for BA, and had a reasonably profitable flying career until getting the elbow from the beancounters. So although perhaps I should keep out of this one, it's difficult not to join in.
Whether he was a good and likeable man in person, in business or in private, or whether he was a complete and utter sh*t I have no idea and will never know.....but to me he will always remain as one of the symbols of Thatcherism and all that was wrong with it. One of the chosen few of her friends and business cronies who made vast fortunes out of the suffering of the millions they threw on the scrapheap with their ' f*ck tomorrow' short-termism and ' on yer bike' economics and mentality....dogma....disrespect....and a basic lack of sympathy and decency to people whose lives were overturned in the name profit.....profit...... profit......
In retrospect, these people were the prototypes for what we have seen in the CIS the past decade and it would be interesting to draw up a list ( maybe it already exists ? ) of the millions and millions accumulated by these cronies as they were parachuted into these privatisations on a regular basis - I actually live close by three of them down here....all complete hoorays whose main asset appears to have been to have the 'front' to pay themselves increasingly huge bonuses for adding thousands to the unemployement lists.
OK, it seems the UK has been going forward whilst the rest of us here in Europe have been going backwards the past few years, and no doubt someone will reply ( welcomed ) that it's all based on what the Dictator-ess accomplished during those years, but in this particular case, was BA a better airline after their antics ?
Depends on whether you were lucky enough to have had enough spare social security to have become a shareholder when the company, like so many others, was sold for peanuts, or whether you were unlucky enough to have been one of those selected for the short walk with a wave of the finger, whether at BA, at Laker due to this man's ( lack of ) business ethics, at Dan-Air, at Air Europe et al, in the name of profit.....profit.....profit......
Stalin once said ' if one person dies it's a tragedy, but if a million die it's just a statistic ' I think we should feel a little bit the same here for the sake of his family.
But I'm afraid I'm a little bit with OKC and others on this.
I'm German, lived down here for a couple of decades after a few years training and being based in the UK, still have relatives who are more or less British in the UK, never worked for BA, and had a reasonably profitable flying career until getting the elbow from the beancounters. So although perhaps I should keep out of this one, it's difficult not to join in.
Whether he was a good and likeable man in person, in business or in private, or whether he was a complete and utter sh*t I have no idea and will never know.....but to me he will always remain as one of the symbols of Thatcherism and all that was wrong with it. One of the chosen few of her friends and business cronies who made vast fortunes out of the suffering of the millions they threw on the scrapheap with their ' f*ck tomorrow' short-termism and ' on yer bike' economics and mentality....dogma....disrespect....and a basic lack of sympathy and decency to people whose lives were overturned in the name profit.....profit...... profit......
In retrospect, these people were the prototypes for what we have seen in the CIS the past decade and it would be interesting to draw up a list ( maybe it already exists ? ) of the millions and millions accumulated by these cronies as they were parachuted into these privatisations on a regular basis - I actually live close by three of them down here....all complete hoorays whose main asset appears to have been to have the 'front' to pay themselves increasingly huge bonuses for adding thousands to the unemployement lists.
OK, it seems the UK has been going forward whilst the rest of us here in Europe have been going backwards the past few years, and no doubt someone will reply ( welcomed ) that it's all based on what the Dictator-ess accomplished during those years, but in this particular case, was BA a better airline after their antics ?
Depends on whether you were lucky enough to have had enough spare social security to have become a shareholder when the company, like so many others, was sold for peanuts, or whether you were unlucky enough to have been one of those selected for the short walk with a wave of the finger, whether at BA, at Laker due to this man's ( lack of ) business ethics, at Dan-Air, at Air Europe et al, in the name of profit.....profit.....profit......
One of the chosen few.....friends and business cronies
these cronies as they were parachuted in.....on a regular basis
whose main asset appears to have been to have the 'front' to pay themselves increasingly huge bonuses
what the Dictator-ess accomplished during those years
but in this particular case, was BA a better airline after their antics ?
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Fascinating
Rather than sound off at a peer of the realm who was doing a job, woudn't it be fairer to (a) congratulate said gentleman on the efficacy with which he executed his task, and (b) question the intent of those who set his objectives ?? Now those would be interesting reading...
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Yes , I think its bad taste to speak of someone just departed in such terms.
I actually met him once in the passing,and had no doubt he was a hard nosed, but effective businessman who saw the need for change in the industry.
I actually met him once in the passing,and had no doubt he was a hard nosed, but effective businessman who saw the need for change in the industry.
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Interestingly if my memory serves me correctly, BA lost the libel cases, but there was never a verdict on the alleged dirty tricks themselves. BA people who were close to the alleged events didnt recognise them as real and were astonished that the airline did not contest them , particularly when it was admitted that some of the filming was " reconstruction" rather than live. The actuality seems to be that King and Marshall, followed by Ayling had no stomach for continuing the fight as it was expensive, time consuming and debilitating in PR terms and distracted BA people from the task of running the business. Like them or not, BAs track record worldwide for British aviation, both pre and post privatisation has been remarkable and it is unlikely that any alternative could have done better...... and no, they did not receive free aircraft on privatisation.
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"King, Marshall and similar reptiles are the reason why I will NEVER fly ba unless there is no feasible alternative."
Beagle - excellent reasoning! Well thought out - must have taken hours!
Actually, due to the behaviour of Adolf Hitler and his mates I never travel Lufthansa or eat Sausages.
Just how long does the bridge have to be for the water to have flowed under it?
Looking forward to your next contribution......not
Beagle - excellent reasoning! Well thought out - must have taken hours!
Actually, due to the behaviour of Adolf Hitler and his mates I never travel Lufthansa or eat Sausages.
Just how long does the bridge have to be for the water to have flowed under it?
Looking forward to your next contribution......not
Just another number
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I met Lord King several times and found him to be charming and charismatic. However he didnīt suffer fools, and could be very hard on anyone who showed any sign of weakness or lack of ability. He and Marshall cut out most of the dead wood from BA and made it into a lean , efficient airline, a process that Ayling reversed.
Newcomers into the airline business always extoll the virtues of competition but then complain when the established carriers fight back. Laker went to the wall because, having borrowed money in dollars, the dollar rose against the pound when most of his revenue was in sterling. The settlement with a group of airlines was, in US terms, for peanuts and was considerably cheaper than going to court. I wonder how much of this money found itīs way to the Laker employees. The cases that actually went to court in Miami were lost. I doubt whether many Laker staff would have lost any sleep if King had failed and the BA staff had been stacking shelves.
Although Branson won the libel case, he lost all of the īDirty Tricksīcases that came to court. I believe that he had to pay BAīs costs but my memory of this is from `BA Newsīat the time so am willing to be corrected. However the īDirty Tricksīsaga, whether true or not (please donīt quote the various works of fiction to me), was probably the best PR coup that RB could have dreamed of. To have people refusing to fly BA, although childish behaviour so long after the event, proves what a brilliant PR event it was for Virgin. RB and Virgin donīt seem to have done too badly in the last few years.
Lord King was a brilliant businessman who took no prisoners. It is only natual that those who have been burned will be bitter, but that does not detract from what he achieved with BA.
Airclues
(I have my hard hat on so fire away
)
Newcomers into the airline business always extoll the virtues of competition but then complain when the established carriers fight back. Laker went to the wall because, having borrowed money in dollars, the dollar rose against the pound when most of his revenue was in sterling. The settlement with a group of airlines was, in US terms, for peanuts and was considerably cheaper than going to court. I wonder how much of this money found itīs way to the Laker employees. The cases that actually went to court in Miami were lost. I doubt whether many Laker staff would have lost any sleep if King had failed and the BA staff had been stacking shelves.
Although Branson won the libel case, he lost all of the īDirty Tricksīcases that came to court. I believe that he had to pay BAīs costs but my memory of this is from `BA Newsīat the time so am willing to be corrected. However the īDirty Tricksīsaga, whether true or not (please donīt quote the various works of fiction to me), was probably the best PR coup that RB could have dreamed of. To have people refusing to fly BA, although childish behaviour so long after the event, proves what a brilliant PR event it was for Virgin. RB and Virgin donīt seem to have done too badly in the last few years.
Lord King was a brilliant businessman who took no prisoners. It is only natual that those who have been burned will be bitter, but that does not detract from what he achieved with BA.
Airclues
(I have my hard hat on so fire away
)
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For Stormin Normin's benefit:
All the Laker pilots were paid six months salary by BA in an out of court settlement.
...and it took me many years before I could go near a BA aircraft!
All the Laker pilots were paid six months salary by BA in an out of court settlement.
...and it took me many years before I could go near a BA aircraft!