AA 767 diverts to Stornoway!
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AA 767 diverts to Stornoway!
Airline passengers had to be hoisted on to the runway at Stornoway Airport after their plane made an emergency landing there yesterday(25/4).
The American Airlines Boeing twin-engined 767 jet, on its way from Sweden to Chicago, landed after an 83-year-old passenger suffered a fatal heart attack.
It was the first time in years that a wide-bodied passenger jet had landed at the Western Isles airport. A loading hoist was used to disembark the 87 passengers because there were no suitable steps."
The American Airlines Boeing twin-engined 767 jet, on its way from Sweden to Chicago, landed after an 83-year-old passenger suffered a fatal heart attack.
It was the first time in years that a wide-bodied passenger jet had landed at the Western Isles airport. A loading hoist was used to disembark the 87 passengers because there were no suitable steps."
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Took their morning papers in this morning, and it was the talk of the area. A real novelty, apparently the roads around the airport were jammed with people watching its departure to LHR. (To get fuel to then continue on to the states)
Its a shame that the old guy passed away.
CRX.
[This message has been edited by CRX (edited 27 April 2001).]
Its a shame that the old guy passed away.
CRX.
[This message has been edited by CRX (edited 27 April 2001).]
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Have not seen the details on this but:
The first post suggests the poor fellow had already departed. I doubt it since not much point in making an emergency landing then.
This incident highlights the problem with present ETOPS/LROPS planning. Assuming the patient was still alive but critical what is the point of landing at the nearest airfield when you cannot get the patient off the aircraft? Crews need far more information on potential diversion airports to make sound diversion decisions. Even if Stornaway had an airstair I would doubt if the community has the sort of advanced medical facilities needed for this type of emergency.
We need to wake up to the fool's paradise we are living in that implies the only item we need for a diversion airport is a long strip of concrete.
By the way, I flew one of the first two single jet aircraft into Stornaway (it was a two ship formation). Charming place but a bit cool.
The first post suggests the poor fellow had already departed. I doubt it since not much point in making an emergency landing then.
This incident highlights the problem with present ETOPS/LROPS planning. Assuming the patient was still alive but critical what is the point of landing at the nearest airfield when you cannot get the patient off the aircraft? Crews need far more information on potential diversion airports to make sound diversion decisions. Even if Stornaway had an airstair I would doubt if the community has the sort of advanced medical facilities needed for this type of emergency.
We need to wake up to the fool's paradise we are living in that implies the only item we need for a diversion airport is a long strip of concrete.
By the way, I flew one of the first two single jet aircraft into Stornaway (it was a two ship formation). Charming place but a bit cool.
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Very true, just how much longer would it have taken to get to PIK or GLA. Not the
closest suitable airport in terms of runway length. BUT much more sutable for this sort
of pax emergency.
[This message has been edited by boxmover (edited 27 April 2001).]
closest suitable airport in terms of runway length. BUT much more sutable for this sort
of pax emergency.
[This message has been edited by boxmover (edited 27 April 2001).]
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I was on a Pan Am 747 that diverted to PIK with a medical emergency, possible stroke as I recall. He said Reykjavik, PIK, and LHR were the choices, se we did a 180 and flew for about an hour before landing. They used a hoist to take the woman off. Refueled on the tarmac, and continued on to JFK.
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I worked the flight enroute returning to LL and the pilot informed me that he could not thank the people and staff at EGPO(Tower and Firemen got a special mention) enough. He was very impressed how everyone rallied round.Well done HIAL and Stornoway.
AyrTC
AyrTC
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Cīmon some of you.
Unless there was a doctor onboard who pronounced him dead while still in cruise, you should be happy and commend the captain for such a decision. (If rwy, wx and hospital are/seem suitable...)
He had enough fuel to fly back to a refueling airport anyway.
Luckily most of us donīt think about profits/costs in situations like this.
It could be you or me some day, while we still have a chance...
Unless there was a doctor onboard who pronounced him dead while still in cruise, you should be happy and commend the captain for such a decision. (If rwy, wx and hospital are/seem suitable...)
He had enough fuel to fly back to a refueling airport anyway.
Luckily most of us donīt think about profits/costs in situations like this.
It could be you or me some day, while we still have a chance...
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Only ever flown to Stornoway once..about 10 years ago as a pax in Loganair Shed...the only other aircraft in sight was an
Evans VP-1....other end of the spectrum from a 767 and I'd be genuinely interested to know how it got there! Some fantastic scenery, beautiful deserted beaches, friendly natives....but closed on Sundays!
Evans VP-1....other end of the spectrum from a 767 and I'd be genuinely interested to know how it got there! Some fantastic scenery, beautiful deserted beaches, friendly natives....but closed on Sundays!
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Sympathies to the family and all that.
The point which was made but has been skimmed over is just how suitable are these supposed ETOPS/LROPS diversion airfields if a large airliner really does have to divert in there with something other than a non-technical problem such as this.
I understand Longyearbyen in Svalbard is a diversion airfield for the trans-polar route. I went there 15 years ago (by ship) and spent 2 months up there in the 'summer'. The weather was never very stable, always cold, and the facilities at that time were somewhat basic.
Imagine a 777 diverting in there with an engine out. Sod's law says that the weather will be right on minima (and it's not an approach for the faint hearted even in good weather) and blowing a gale. OAT will be -20 C plus windchill. The a/c makes it down OK, and then everybody bales out down the slides. Instant hypothermia/cold shock scenario. Then the need for hotels and undercover maintenance facility to repair the a/c etc. You can imagine the rest, and the situation might well be worse in Greenland..
In the race to get ever shorter transit times and save fuel etc, I fear we are potentially increasing the risk of turning a minor incident into a major one. I wonder how many punters would be happy to be told (irrespective of how many engines their plane has) that in the event of an emergency there is a good chance they will end up with frostbite and be stuck in the middle of nowhere until the plane can be repaired or a replacement flown out.
No disrespect intended to the residents of Svalbard or Greenland!
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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
The point which was made but has been skimmed over is just how suitable are these supposed ETOPS/LROPS diversion airfields if a large airliner really does have to divert in there with something other than a non-technical problem such as this.
I understand Longyearbyen in Svalbard is a diversion airfield for the trans-polar route. I went there 15 years ago (by ship) and spent 2 months up there in the 'summer'. The weather was never very stable, always cold, and the facilities at that time were somewhat basic.
Imagine a 777 diverting in there with an engine out. Sod's law says that the weather will be right on minima (and it's not an approach for the faint hearted even in good weather) and blowing a gale. OAT will be -20 C plus windchill. The a/c makes it down OK, and then everybody bales out down the slides. Instant hypothermia/cold shock scenario. Then the need for hotels and undercover maintenance facility to repair the a/c etc. You can imagine the rest, and the situation might well be worse in Greenland..
In the race to get ever shorter transit times and save fuel etc, I fear we are potentially increasing the risk of turning a minor incident into a major one. I wonder how many punters would be happy to be told (irrespective of how many engines their plane has) that in the event of an emergency there is a good chance they will end up with frostbite and be stuck in the middle of nowhere until the plane can be repaired or a replacement flown out.
No disrespect intended to the residents of Svalbard or Greenland!
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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
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Condolences to the family and relatives of the deceased pap on the AA.
Why does LHR keep being proferred as a diversion destination when MAN "Home of The UK Diversion" is a much better placed spot ?
Apart from possible crew changes why did the a/c route to LHR for fuel ?
Undoubtedly MAN now offers the best facilities for diversions with its central location, extensive hotel accomoodation and based emergency coaching service (provided by us!)
Heck our DMs will even check for WX with NATS - now where else do you find a coach company doing that ?
I agree that flights should divert to where there are facilities available and indeed we talk direct to a number of airline ops to ensure that we can provide transport for pax wherever they may wish to divert and that the a/c goes where these are available.
If your company doesn't know about us, they should do !
P.S. This is not an advert - hope the bizz development boys at MAPLC see this tho' !
Why does LHR keep being proferred as a diversion destination when MAN "Home of The UK Diversion" is a much better placed spot ?
Apart from possible crew changes why did the a/c route to LHR for fuel ?
Undoubtedly MAN now offers the best facilities for diversions with its central location, extensive hotel accomoodation and based emergency coaching service (provided by us!)
Heck our DMs will even check for WX with NATS - now where else do you find a coach company doing that ?
I agree that flights should divert to where there are facilities available and indeed we talk direct to a number of airline ops to ensure that we can provide transport for pax wherever they may wish to divert and that the a/c goes where these are available.
If your company doesn't know about us, they should do !
P.S. This is not an advert - hope the bizz development boys at MAPLC see this tho' !
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Saw in a back issue of Flight that the JAR people are looking into the "suitability" of
diversion airfields plus the rate of non tech diversions. IF they can avoid to much "bureaucratic and political" infighting this should be an interesting study.
[This message has been edited by boxmover (edited 28 April 2001).]
diversion airfields plus the rate of non tech diversions. IF they can avoid to much "bureaucratic and political" infighting this should be an interesting study.
[This message has been edited by boxmover (edited 28 April 2001).]
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Methinks those who have passed comment on ETOPS operations have never flown them and/or know very little about them. I doubt very much that stornaway was the ETOPS alternate but it probably was the nearest suitable Airport with adequate medical facilities.
Try explaining to the inquiry why you elected to fly for an extra ten minutes in a time critical medical emergency.
Local knowledge is all well and good but the crew in this case were not local. They had to rely on the information made available to them by their company, along with the assistance of local ATC.
ETOPS is a planning exercise it cannot and will not cover all eventualities.
It sounds to me that the crew and the local airport services did a sterling job in difficult circumstances and should be commended as such.
Hopefully now stornaway will invest in a suitable set of steps and company manuals will highlight the lack of ground equipment until it is improved.
Try explaining to the inquiry why you elected to fly for an extra ten minutes in a time critical medical emergency.
Local knowledge is all well and good but the crew in this case were not local. They had to rely on the information made available to them by their company, along with the assistance of local ATC.
ETOPS is a planning exercise it cannot and will not cover all eventualities.
It sounds to me that the crew and the local airport services did a sterling job in difficult circumstances and should be commended as such.
Hopefully now stornaway will invest in a suitable set of steps and company manuals will highlight the lack of ground equipment until it is improved.
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I doubt that they will buy a set of big steeps for one diversion every third blue moon.
If the airlines wont to use this sort of big runway/small traffic airfield as a diversion
then they will need to subsidise the kit needed to provide a safe basic handling service.
If the airlines wont to use this sort of big runway/small traffic airfield as a diversion
then they will need to subsidise the kit needed to provide a safe basic handling service.
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The point I was trying to make in my earlier post is a general one. As SITMOFO says ETOPS is a planning exercise - it is the strategic part of the old "strategic versus tactical" operation. We have sufficient time to consider this strategic information during the planning phase. Then what happens? Something goes "bang" and we are suddenly tactical with inadequate information and no time. I, of course, intended no slight on The Outer Islands and their inhabitants in my post. (Although some of the touchier of our northern readers seemed to imagine it). However, consider that the general rule is that the smaller the population of a community the lesser its facilities are (politics and economics). The crew involved in the subject incident had no local knowledge. They unfortunately did not have information on the airstair situation and probably had no certain knowledge of available medical facilities. They did a great job handling the situation they were presented. However, would it not have been preferable that they could have tapped into some accurate, current data source to provide rapid guidance during this incident? There have been several embarressing incidents involving this lack of information about diversion airfields, including one where an aircraft diverted with a medical emergency to an airfield with bad weather and no suitable medical facilities. It took a couple of days for a rescue aircraft to fly in and get the ill pax to a suitable hospital.
All I am suggesting is that an "official" assessment be made of all airfields that are nominated, or are likely to be used as, diversion airfields. Information on their various facilities should be made available and updated - just as we presently do with nav. charts - and the facilities (such as airstairs and ground power) should be updated when necessary and feasible.
All I am suggesting is that an "official" assessment be made of all airfields that are nominated, or are likely to be used as, diversion airfields. Information on their various facilities should be made available and updated - just as we presently do with nav. charts - and the facilities (such as airstairs and ground power) should be updated when necessary and feasible.