CROSSAIR CRASH -
Scan,. .. ."Yes Captain, I'm using the procedure in Issue 2 of Temporary Revision 12, aren't you?".. .. .Don't get me started on THAT subject!. .. .Soddit,. .. .Probably won't be able to make it: the boat left 2 weeks ago, soddit!. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Copied directly from Avro 146-RJ Training Manual. .. .6.9.0. .Page 21. .. .VOR/LOC/ADF - Normal or One Engine Out. .. .1 Complete approach preparation and the approach checklist. Tune and identify the navaids in use. Set the inbound course on the MCP.. .. .2.Descend outbound at 160 Kts. with 18 flap set. .. .3.Remain in HDG mode and establish on the inbound radial.. .. .4. approaching the descent point, confirm within 5 deg. of the inbound track and select ALT SEL to the Missed Approach Altitude when level. Select gear down and initiate landing checklist.. .. .5. At the descent point, dial-down the VSEL to VREF33 + 20 Kts. and select 24 deg. flap. Select VS and, using the thumb wheel, set an appropriate ROD to follow the vertical profile.. .. .6. For a straight in approach only, at about 1500 AAL, dial-down thw VSEL to VREF 33 + 5 Kts. and select 33 deg. flap.. .. .7. At the beacon inbound, start the stopwatch and descend to MDA(H) or circling minima. The maximum ROD should be 1000 f.p.m. Confirm checks complete.. .. .8. 100 ft before reaching MDA(H), set VS to zero and select ALT. The aircraft will level off at up to 100 ft below the height at which Alt was engaged...... .. .It then carries on to discuss continuing to land, or go-around as the case may be.. .. .That is how we fly our fleet of 16 RJ-100's. That is what I and my fellow trainers teach in the simulator. Plus we do not fly level at MDA(H) - it is rather irresponsible in a jet airliner.
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Well chaps with our solitary RJ70 we probably fly more NPA approaches per week than you do with your 19/26 ...... .We are also coming to terms with the recent installation of the Collins GNLU-910 FMS which is a wonderful piece of kit IF you fly from/to major airports (or at least airports with SIDs/STARs) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .We fly to airfields which do not even have an NDB associated with them! SID /STAR ????? tell him he's dreaming!! Hence the REQUIREMENT to fly level at MDA for a circling approach. Thankfully GPS NPA straight in approaches are becoming more and more common so we CAN continue to MDA at a continous descent and then go around if not visual. . .. .I would appreciate any information which results from the FOWG9 meeting via email or this forum as I get veeery seasick and can't make the journey. .. .As the defacto BAe historical flight of 146's (5 of the first 10 -100's) plus a mix of EFIS /Analogue -200 and -300's we don't have the luxury of a common fleet and it would be wonderful to get ALL of our publications to a common ammendment status but that is an entirely different story.. .. .MAx. .. .Soddit .... Bushman ??? enlighten me.
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CapnBloggs, Reference to your post dated 24 March i`d like to say that you are right,the aircraft will not stall.Let me rephrase it and i think i ll be correct this time:the aircraft may stall or will come near to a stall(a serious enough situation for a commercial airline).If the situation discussed on previous posts will happen the aircraft will descent(for who knows how many feet of height)with idle thrust maintaining Vmin as an airspeed,and when alt goes to ACQ you will solely depend to this sluggish autothrottle the RJ has,to maintain her level with Vmin again.This is really a situation i dont want to fly in. All we/i do is to fly the aircraft according to MOMs,training manual and my airline`s SOPs which all clearly state to select the missed approach altitude.If you are really trained to do this you can do it for the rest of your RJ career. Best regards to all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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Come on. Flying level at MDA(H) on a straight in approach with Flap 33 and VREF + 5 is quite different from flying level at circling MDA(H) with flap 24 and 145 kts (company speed schedule).. .. .Incidentally min. circling height for us is 1000 AAL.
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i suspect that 26 airplanes following a particular sop are not greatly different form another airplane following a different sop. the oz game recognises a need to circle at many destinations (yes at flap 24!) because they are not served with anything other than an ndb or, luxuriously, with a vor. rarely there is also a dme.
for all the w*nkers shouting irresponsible/dangerous/frightening etc, i think that the totally different environment creates totally different needs and when circling npas are the only option to provide an aviation infrastructure, then you get to adapt your more luxurious attitudes.
i understand that there has been little traffic with bae training or the operators working group simply because there was no indication that there had been any change. however, i don't think that the colonials would suggest any changes to how the old country chooses to operate - given that the risk of stalling has been assessed there as higher than cfit (oops!) in a far more hostile environment, we would be far better off learning about modern risk assessment.
for all the w*nkers shouting irresponsible/dangerous/frightening etc, i think that the totally different environment creates totally different needs and when circling npas are the only option to provide an aviation infrastructure, then you get to adapt your more luxurious attitudes.
i understand that there has been little traffic with bae training or the operators working group simply because there was no indication that there had been any change. however, i don't think that the colonials would suggest any changes to how the old country chooses to operate - given that the risk of stalling has been assessed there as higher than cfit (oops!) in a far more hostile environment, we would be far better off learning about modern risk assessment.
