Recent B717 Loss of Elevator Control?
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Recent B717 Loss of Elevator Control?
Any comments/further info. re this report?
************************************************************ ********************
** Report created 5/13/2005 Record 1 **
************************************************************ ********************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 910ME Make/Model: B712 Description: 717-200
Date: 05/13/2005 Time: 0420
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: KANSAS CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
N910ME, MIDWEST AIRLINES, MEP490, A BOEING 717-200 ACFT DECLARED AN
EMERGENCY DUE TO LOSS OF ELEVATOR CONTROL, REGAINED CONTROL AND DIVERTED,
LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT, KANSAS CITY, MO
** Report created 5/13/2005 Record 1 **
************************************************************ ********************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 910ME Make/Model: B712 Description: 717-200
Date: 05/13/2005 Time: 0420
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: KANSAS CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
N910ME, MIDWEST AIRLINES, MEP490, A BOEING 717-200 ACFT DECLARED AN
EMERGENCY DUE TO LOSS OF ELEVATOR CONTROL, REGAINED CONTROL AND DIVERTED,
LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT, KANSAS CITY, MO
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not saying this is what happened, however......
The DC-9, MD-80, 717 series of aircraft has had events with "rehydration", the reforming of a gel from residue from de-icing/anti-icing fluids.
......." restricted elevator movement interrupted the flight of two MD-80 airplanes. In both cases frozen contamination, a gel with a high freezing point, caused the restricted movement. The gel was Type IV fluid residue that rehydrated during takeoff or climbout in rain."
From this document:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer..._textonly.html
The DC-9, MD-80, 717 series of aircraft has had events with "rehydration", the reforming of a gel from residue from de-icing/anti-icing fluids.
......." restricted elevator movement interrupted the flight of two MD-80 airplanes. In both cases frozen contamination, a gel with a high freezing point, caused the restricted movement. The gel was Type IV fluid residue that rehydrated during takeoff or climbout in rain."
From this document:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer..._textonly.html
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Rehydrated Type IV-fluids...
All use of Type IV-fluids has been abandoned in Norway, due to problems with rehydration...
Not only with DC-9/MD-80, but even a Dash 8-300 suffered jammed elevators inflight, apparantly caused by rehydrated Type IV-fluid...
Not only with DC-9/MD-80, but even a Dash 8-300 suffered jammed elevators inflight, apparantly caused by rehydrated Type IV-fluid...
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I am sure that a few RJ100s which landed at London City recently had the same problem.
They were grounded until it had beed flushed out (using more de-icing fluid if my memory serves me correct)
They were grounded until it had beed flushed out (using more de-icing fluid if my memory serves me correct)
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As a brilliant ground instructor of mine once said "this is where you find out that adrenaline is both brown AND sitcky!" 
Hi Pete!
I wasn't aware of rehydration problems caused by de-icing fluid but I did see the program about the Alaska Airways incident just off the LAX coast. This apparently (and let me be guarded here) was caused by the worm-bogie arrangement that raises and lowers the stabilator being sheared. In fact the worm had come out of the bogie arrangement all together!
Apparently this was due to the fact that the arrangement needed greasing and the retaining nut although there was not designed to stop the arrangement coming apart
.
It highlighted that the system was not fail safe.
(This was as I understood the program and I do not want to appear to be apportioning blame to Boeing, MD or Alaska Airlines).
Hi Pete!I wasn't aware of rehydration problems caused by de-icing fluid but I did see the program about the Alaska Airways incident just off the LAX coast. This apparently (and let me be guarded here) was caused by the worm-bogie arrangement that raises and lowers the stabilator being sheared. In fact the worm had come out of the bogie arrangement all together!
Apparently this was due to the fact that the arrangement needed greasing and the retaining nut although there was not designed to stop the arrangement coming apart
.It highlighted that the system was not fail safe.
(This was as I understood the program and I do not want to appear to be apportioning blame to Boeing, MD or Alaska Airlines).
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If the 717 has the MD system, there is a fair bit of redundancy in the elevators (which are direct mechanical controls).
The Alaska case concerned the stab screwjack and is not related to a jammed elevator - indeed what it did result in was a floating stab - a just about impossible problem to cope with.
The most common problem with the elevators has been water freezing in the hinge area due to incorrect deicing procedures.
The Alaska case concerned the stab screwjack and is not related to a jammed elevator - indeed what it did result in was a floating stab - a just about impossible problem to cope with.
The most common problem with the elevators has been water freezing in the hinge area due to incorrect deicing procedures.
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Ah yes! I remember now. "Screwjack". That's what I was thinking of. Thanks.
Is this specific to any design/aircraft type then or is it the de-icing fluid alone causing the problem?
Is this specific to any design/aircraft type then or is it the de-icing fluid alone causing the problem?
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Hi Carl,
I only know what I read here about the fluid problem - and it is evidently not type specific judging by the posts.
Actually neither is water run back caused by incorrect ground de-icing procedures, which is what i was referring to.
Certain aircraft types also had an in flight problem caused by the aircraft tail de-icing system - or lack of one. The DC-9 family was OK in this respect - provided that the crew made a regular "tail shot", which was timed to last 2 1/2 minutes.
FC
I only know what I read here about the fluid problem - and it is evidently not type specific judging by the posts.
Actually neither is water run back caused by incorrect ground de-icing procedures, which is what i was referring to.
Certain aircraft types also had an in flight problem caused by the aircraft tail de-icing system - or lack of one. The DC-9 family was OK in this respect - provided that the crew made a regular "tail shot", which was timed to last 2 1/2 minutes.
FC
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The 717 had a bit of a disagreement Svr/Mod turb shooting the gap along a line of wx enroute D.C. from Kansas city MO.
The crew elected to land as soon as possible fearing damage had been done,declared emergency and landed at a podunk named Kirksville MO.(KIRK).
Not considered the most suitable of fields by the chattering classes over here,but as a number of you have pointed out aka Alaskan,you can never be 100% certain what you are dealing with during inflight emergencies until your talking about it later on down at the bar.
The crew elected to land as soon as possible fearing damage had been done,declared emergency and landed at a podunk named Kirksville MO.(KIRK).
Not considered the most suitable of fields by the chattering classes over here,but as a number of you have pointed out aka Alaskan,you can never be 100% certain what you are dealing with during inflight emergencies until your talking about it later on down at the bar.
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you can never be 100% certain what you are dealing with during inflight emergencies until your talking about it later on down at the bar.
Better down here wishing you were up there than up there ...
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This just in...
NTSB Identification: NYC05IA083
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of Midwest Airlines
Incident occurred Thursday, May 12, 2005 in Union Star, MO
Aircraft: Boeing 717-200, registration: N910ME
Injuries: 80 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On May 12, 2005, about 2321 central daylight time, a Boeing 717-200, N910ME, operated by Midwest Airlines Inc., as flight 490, experienced a loss of pitch control while climbing through 23,000 feet, over Union Star, Missouri. The flightcrew declared an emergency, and the airplane was subsequently recovered at an altitude of 13,000 feet. The airplane diverted to Kirksville, Missouri, and landed uneventfully. There were no injuries to the two certificated airline transport pilots, two flight attendants, and 76 passengers. Night instrument meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight that departed from Kansas City, Missouri, about 2308, destined for the Ronald Reagan National Airport, Washington, District of Columbia. An instrument flight rules flight plan was filed for the scheduled domestic flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 121.
According to the captain, the flight sequence for the day had originated from Los Angeles, California, and was scheduled to land at Kansas City. Due to weather at Kansas City, the flightcrew diverted to Omaha, Nebraska, where additional fuel was obtained and a further evaluation of the weather conditions could be made.
After reviewing the weather, the flight departed for Kansas City at 2100, and proceeded uneventfully, landing at 2146.
While in the company operations area, at Kansas City, the captain was briefed by company dispatch personnel regarding significant weather that was moving from west to east prior to the departure for Washington. The captain also noted the weather on a display screen that was located in the operations area.
As the airplane was taxied for departure at 2231, the captain elected to delay the takeoff, and wait for the weather pass further to the east. Once the weather past, and the flightcrew received a "ride report" from a previous departing airplane, the flight departed from runway 1L.
As the airplane climbed on a northerly heading, the captain observed a green area on the cockpit radar screen, "indicating the presence of rain." Areas of yellow were also observed on the screen, at a distance of 20 miles or more to the east. Once the captain determined that the flight was sufficiently clear of the weather, he requested a turn to the east. The air traffic controller subsequently cleared the flight onto a 060-degree heading and to an altitude of FL270.
As the airplane turned to the assigned heading, the captain observed a master caution light illuminate on the glareshield, and a "config" on the center console. The captain then observed that a "rudder limit fail" alert was being projected on the engine and alerting display (EAD). As the captain was about to call for the quick reference handbook (QRH), the airplane pitched down abruptly and the autopilot disconnected. Both pilots placed their hands on the control yokes in an attempt to arrest the descent. The captain noted that the airspeed was increasing rapidly and that they were losing altitude. The airplane then began an uncommanded climb, which was followed by a series of uncommanded descents and climbs, which lasted for several minutes.
After regaining control of the airplane, the flightcrew diverted to the Kirksville Regional Airport, and landed uneventfully on runway 18.
Examination of the airplane's exterior revealed that the oil filler door on the right engine nacelle was open, and evidence of a lightning strike exit hole was visible on the top surface of the tail cone. Further examination of the exterior did not reveal any other lightning holes.
Functionality testing of the airplane's flight control systems and avionics were conducted after the incident, with no abnormalities noted except for a disconnect of the flight control columns.
The airplane was equipped with a cockpit voice recorder (CVR), and a digital flight data recorder (DFDR). Both recorders were transported to the Safety Board's Office of Research and Engineering for further examination.
Several other computer components were removed from the airplane for further examination and extraction of retained data.
The reported weather at Kansas City, at 2317, included 8 miles visibility; light rain and thunderstorms; ceiling 3,900 feet overcast, with cumulonimbus clouds; temperature 64 degrees F; dew point 64 degrees F; altimeter 29.99 inches Hg. The report also noted that frequent lighting was observed, and the thunderstorm activity was moving east.
Index for May2005 | Index of months
NTSB Identification: NYC05IA083
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of Midwest Airlines
Incident occurred Thursday, May 12, 2005 in Union Star, MO
Aircraft: Boeing 717-200, registration: N910ME
Injuries: 80 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On May 12, 2005, about 2321 central daylight time, a Boeing 717-200, N910ME, operated by Midwest Airlines Inc., as flight 490, experienced a loss of pitch control while climbing through 23,000 feet, over Union Star, Missouri. The flightcrew declared an emergency, and the airplane was subsequently recovered at an altitude of 13,000 feet. The airplane diverted to Kirksville, Missouri, and landed uneventfully. There were no injuries to the two certificated airline transport pilots, two flight attendants, and 76 passengers. Night instrument meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight that departed from Kansas City, Missouri, about 2308, destined for the Ronald Reagan National Airport, Washington, District of Columbia. An instrument flight rules flight plan was filed for the scheduled domestic flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 121.
According to the captain, the flight sequence for the day had originated from Los Angeles, California, and was scheduled to land at Kansas City. Due to weather at Kansas City, the flightcrew diverted to Omaha, Nebraska, where additional fuel was obtained and a further evaluation of the weather conditions could be made.
After reviewing the weather, the flight departed for Kansas City at 2100, and proceeded uneventfully, landing at 2146.
While in the company operations area, at Kansas City, the captain was briefed by company dispatch personnel regarding significant weather that was moving from west to east prior to the departure for Washington. The captain also noted the weather on a display screen that was located in the operations area.
As the airplane was taxied for departure at 2231, the captain elected to delay the takeoff, and wait for the weather pass further to the east. Once the weather past, and the flightcrew received a "ride report" from a previous departing airplane, the flight departed from runway 1L.
As the airplane climbed on a northerly heading, the captain observed a green area on the cockpit radar screen, "indicating the presence of rain." Areas of yellow were also observed on the screen, at a distance of 20 miles or more to the east. Once the captain determined that the flight was sufficiently clear of the weather, he requested a turn to the east. The air traffic controller subsequently cleared the flight onto a 060-degree heading and to an altitude of FL270.
As the airplane turned to the assigned heading, the captain observed a master caution light illuminate on the glareshield, and a "config" on the center console. The captain then observed that a "rudder limit fail" alert was being projected on the engine and alerting display (EAD). As the captain was about to call for the quick reference handbook (QRH), the airplane pitched down abruptly and the autopilot disconnected. Both pilots placed their hands on the control yokes in an attempt to arrest the descent. The captain noted that the airspeed was increasing rapidly and that they were losing altitude. The airplane then began an uncommanded climb, which was followed by a series of uncommanded descents and climbs, which lasted for several minutes.
After regaining control of the airplane, the flightcrew diverted to the Kirksville Regional Airport, and landed uneventfully on runway 18.
Examination of the airplane's exterior revealed that the oil filler door on the right engine nacelle was open, and evidence of a lightning strike exit hole was visible on the top surface of the tail cone. Further examination of the exterior did not reveal any other lightning holes.
Functionality testing of the airplane's flight control systems and avionics were conducted after the incident, with no abnormalities noted except for a disconnect of the flight control columns.
The airplane was equipped with a cockpit voice recorder (CVR), and a digital flight data recorder (DFDR). Both recorders were transported to the Safety Board's Office of Research and Engineering for further examination.
Several other computer components were removed from the airplane for further examination and extraction of retained data.
The reported weather at Kansas City, at 2317, included 8 miles visibility; light rain and thunderstorms; ceiling 3,900 feet overcast, with cumulonimbus clouds; temperature 64 degrees F; dew point 64 degrees F; altimeter 29.99 inches Hg. The report also noted that frequent lighting was observed, and the thunderstorm activity was moving east.
Index for May2005 | Index of months
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This has been a problem for years.
De-ice fluid used - which dries in "dead airflow" area's, usually in the shrouds fwd of the ailerons and elevators.
What is left is a grey powder residue, which when rain is added swells up into a gel again, but this time without the anti-ice properties, so take off into icing conditions and the watery gel freezes and "glues" the control surface.
Control regained when a/c no longer in icing conditions.
The company I work for has frequent checks from Oct to May (inclusive) to check for the residue, if found it is brushed away and flushed until no gel formation is apparent.
When it re-hydrates it is quite an impressive sight, easy to see how it swells to fill these dead areas.
Pain in the backside xx feet up in a bucket at 2 in the morning on a wet winters night, but better that than presenting the pilot with a problem in flight.
Sounds like some other companys could do well to adopt the same checks.
De-ice fluid used - which dries in "dead airflow" area's, usually in the shrouds fwd of the ailerons and elevators.
What is left is a grey powder residue, which when rain is added swells up into a gel again, but this time without the anti-ice properties, so take off into icing conditions and the watery gel freezes and "glues" the control surface.
Control regained when a/c no longer in icing conditions.
The company I work for has frequent checks from Oct to May (inclusive) to check for the residue, if found it is brushed away and flushed until no gel formation is apparent.
When it re-hydrates it is quite an impressive sight, easy to see how it swells to fill these dead areas.
Pain in the backside xx feet up in a bucket at 2 in the morning on a wet winters night, but better that than presenting the pilot with a problem in flight.
Sounds like some other companys could do well to adopt the same checks.
