Sharjah incident 13/05/05
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Flybob
I have no axe to grind. However, I am simply telling it like it is. I spent a few years there and there was a constant battle with MX issues. The quickest fix was always the pen.
I can remember numerous "discussions" with MX about issues. TF-ATF during the 2001 Hadj, rudder ratio light on for 4 weeks? The numerous delays at LGW? Then there was the 200F out of KL with the cracked keel beam and the gear door light. Simple solution, adjust the switch. That did the trick until a third party MX looked into the problem and found the cracked keel beam. Shall I continue?
What seem interesting is CX and Atlas all fly airframes of the same vintage, but they don't seem to experience nearly the same amount of incidents.
I was always paid on time, not always the amount I had coming. Great bunch of guys to work with. However, the "rockheads" are something else!
I have no axe to grind. However, I am simply telling it like it is. I spent a few years there and there was a constant battle with MX issues. The quickest fix was always the pen.
I can remember numerous "discussions" with MX about issues. TF-ATF during the 2001 Hadj, rudder ratio light on for 4 weeks? The numerous delays at LGW? Then there was the 200F out of KL with the cracked keel beam and the gear door light. Simple solution, adjust the switch. That did the trick until a third party MX looked into the problem and found the cracked keel beam. Shall I continue?
What seem interesting is CX and Atlas all fly airframes of the same vintage, but they don't seem to experience nearly the same amount of incidents.
I was always paid on time, not always the amount I had coming. Great bunch of guys to work with. However, the "rockheads" are something else!
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I saw the airplane yesterday on the ramp. The right wing gear was partially extended, interesting to see the ground clearance on the engines, 2-3 feet with the plane at rest. really easy to make on touch the ground during landing!
The crew must have done a fine job in bringing the airplane in like that.
Damage? Well maybe the switch for the alternate extend, and a good inspection for the remaining gear struts.
The plane doesn't have to be scrapped!!! what a news huh!!
Professional bunch of pilots they have if you ask me
The crew must have done a fine job in bringing the airplane in like that.
Damage? Well maybe the switch for the alternate extend, and a good inspection for the remaining gear struts.
The plane doesn't have to be scrapped!!! what a news huh!!
Professional bunch of pilots they have if you ask me
Talked to one of the ground engineers that has been working on the plane over the last day or so, and as Hawker-rider wrote above there is no damage to the plane at all. Other than the #4 hydraulic system of course.
A good job done by the crew.
And again I love to see the lies perpetuated by some of the ex-employees .... pathetic.
A good job done by the crew.
And again I love to see the lies perpetuated by some of the ex-employees .... pathetic.
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18-Wheeler, if you're referring to my posts, then I challenge you to refute the examples I have listed. I have many more. If I am wrong, then prove it. Tell me what the truth is. I have no problem apologizing on this forum it I'm wrong.
My only motivation is to set the record straight. Let people contemplating going to AAI know what they're getting themselves into. Nothing more, nothing less. I will provide the facts, the decision is up to them.
Again, I have no problem detailing many other problems. However, I think the few I did detail should be easy enough for you to disprove. Maybe not!
My only motivation is to set the record straight. Let people contemplating going to AAI know what they're getting themselves into. Nothing more, nothing less. I will provide the facts, the decision is up to them.
Again, I have no problem detailing many other problems. However, I think the few I did detail should be easy enough for you to disprove. Maybe not!
I too know the story of the keel beam, Phil.
What really happened was that initally the engineers didn't know the keel beam was cracked, and so tried the obvious method of fixing the problem.
That didn't work and so further inviigation was needed. One of the last things that was tried was a Boeing procedure that involved flying the aeroplane at varying speeds, and noting the speeds at which the door light comes on. I know this because the Captain that actually did that flight told me all about it.
From that, a further and deeper inspection was made and from that it was found that there was a crack.
I do not know of any 'third party engineer' involved, though there may have been.
The problem is only partly the maintenance. They do just as good a work as pretty much any company but they simply do not have enough time to do much of anything. The planes were contracted out at XXX hours per month, and they typically fly a good 50% more than that.
That doesn't leave much time on the ground to diagnose or fix anything that can be deferred until there is time to fix it properly.
So no, I would not claim the maintenance is perfect at all, but they do the best they can with what they have.
So whilst the stories in other posts above have some basis in truth, some of them have important details left out to alter the bias of them.
What really happened was that initally the engineers didn't know the keel beam was cracked, and so tried the obvious method of fixing the problem.
That didn't work and so further inviigation was needed. One of the last things that was tried was a Boeing procedure that involved flying the aeroplane at varying speeds, and noting the speeds at which the door light comes on. I know this because the Captain that actually did that flight told me all about it.
From that, a further and deeper inspection was made and from that it was found that there was a crack.
I do not know of any 'third party engineer' involved, though there may have been.
The problem is only partly the maintenance. They do just as good a work as pretty much any company but they simply do not have enough time to do much of anything. The planes were contracted out at XXX hours per month, and they typically fly a good 50% more than that.
That doesn't leave much time on the ground to diagnose or fix anything that can be deferred until there is time to fix it properly.
So no, I would not claim the maintenance is perfect at all, but they do the best they can with what they have.
So whilst the stories in other posts above have some basis in truth, some of them have important details left out to alter the bias of them.
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Just to refer back to the previous statments re CX and ATLAS MX.
I cannot answer for them but I am aware that LH had this same incident happen to them before, so apparently has KLM.
The acidic responses from some on this thread gave direct reference to AAI maintenance, who were in no way involved in this aircraft / incident
Having said that, no one is perfect, and accidents do happen as has been proven. However, publically slinging mud and making less than subltle references to totally inacurate details and references is just plain IGNORANT.
Really, get over it!
I cannot answer for them but I am aware that LH had this same incident happen to them before, so apparently has KLM.
The acidic responses from some on this thread gave direct reference to AAI maintenance, who were in no way involved in this aircraft / incident
Having said that, no one is perfect, and accidents do happen as has been proven. However, publically slinging mud and making less than subltle references to totally inacurate details and references is just plain IGNORANT.
Really, get over it!
Last edited by Flybob; 16th May 2005 at 14:19.
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18-Wheeler
Seems as though we have a very different story on the keel beam. The story I have was the aircraft was at an outstation and was grounded there. The only flight testing done was the ferry flight to have it fixed. But, that is a minor point. The fact is, the aircraft should have been fixed. I don't care if it's flying at 200% over the contract hours. MX has a responsibility to fix it, not just sign it off.
I also posed another issue with another aircraft. Nothing left out of that. If you want PM me and I will give you all the details including the Capt that was threatened if he refused the aircraft.
Flybob perhaps you could enlighten us on the "accurate" details. I have tried in my limited way. I still have many friends at AAI. From their perspective, nothing has changed at all. In some instances it's gotten worse. But, I'm not there, I can't attest to that. Maybe you can!
Seems as though we have a very different story on the keel beam. The story I have was the aircraft was at an outstation and was grounded there. The only flight testing done was the ferry flight to have it fixed. But, that is a minor point. The fact is, the aircraft should have been fixed. I don't care if it's flying at 200% over the contract hours. MX has a responsibility to fix it, not just sign it off.
I also posed another issue with another aircraft. Nothing left out of that. If you want PM me and I will give you all the details including the Capt that was threatened if he refused the aircraft.
Flybob perhaps you could enlighten us on the "accurate" details. I have tried in my limited way. I still have many friends at AAI. From their perspective, nothing has changed at all. In some instances it's gotten worse. But, I'm not there, I can't attest to that. Maybe you can!
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As some of You will remember I used to work for AAI line maintenance(3 Years)and I must say to immediately blame line maintenance for a gear problem is a bit stupid, line maintenace is exactly what it says what would 411A have Us do?gear retractions on every turn around!and say"They will defer anything they can" is obvious as thats what the MEL is for.I do take on board the other comments From Phil(more rational) and if They are true(would like to see some proof as a present this is just heresay) then that is unprofessional.In My time with AAI I was certainly never pressured into signing anything off or just ignoring it,unfortunately 411A tars every AAI maintenance technician with the same brush which is very unfair but I also will say that there are some very bad ones(as there is everywhere)at AAI this is perhaps a syptom of the "fish"nepotism.As 411A is no longer with AAI might I suggest a career move into journalism You could write the sensational headliner so loved by the British tabloid press as They also have an irritating problem when it comes to Aircraft namely telling Us what went wrong before knowing the facts.
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One could dismiss one or two derogatory comments about AAI, matkat, but OTOH, there seems to be quite a few on the T&E forum, as a simple read will discover.
Where there is smoke, fire can't be far behind...
Where there is smoke, fire can't be far behind...
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Hi all,
I too have flown for AAI for several years, left them over 2.5 years ago!
Without getting into specifics, I recall a couple of occasions where the maintenance guys were very good, but also remember that I have been given 'the finger', with accompanying comments, on occasion, by the maintenance guys when they read the maint. log - I usually stayed behind a few minutes to make sure everything written in the log was understood, or any additional explanation was required.
I tried to do the best I could under the trying circumstances, but eventually became very disappointed with the general attitude of the 'support'.
I don't remember AAI line maintenance as either being particularly good (or bright!), generally speaking.
Oh, and Hi to 18-Wheeler, how's it all going for you these days.
Cheers,
FD
I too have flown for AAI for several years, left them over 2.5 years ago!
Without getting into specifics, I recall a couple of occasions where the maintenance guys were very good, but also remember that I have been given 'the finger', with accompanying comments, on occasion, by the maintenance guys when they read the maint. log - I usually stayed behind a few minutes to make sure everything written in the log was understood, or any additional explanation was required.
I tried to do the best I could under the trying circumstances, but eventually became very disappointed with the general attitude of the 'support'.
I don't remember AAI line maintenance as either being particularly good (or bright!), generally speaking.
Oh, and Hi to 18-Wheeler, how's it all going for you these days.
Cheers,
FD
The story I have was the aircraft was at an outstation and was grounded there. The only flight testing done was the ferry flight to have it fixed.
No, once the problem was found an approval from Boeing was made to fly it from KLIA to Subang Airport unpressurised.
Initially there was some doubt if such an approval was going to be forthcoming, but it eventually came through.
The repair was done at the heavy maintenance hangar at Subang, it would have been far more difficult to do at KLIA.
The fact is, the aircraft should have been fixed.
Hi FD, hope you're keeping busy.
I'm back at home for six weeks from the middle of next month if you're around.
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FD I seem to remember that some of the flight crew were not particularly bright either.411A again You are missing the point as You say a few isolated incidents could be overlooked,however when Maintenance actually does a good job fixes Your aircraft and gets You on Your way You have choosen to overlook that!again implying every maintenance technician in AAI is useless,this is obvioviously way of the mark,many of Us are highly experienced Engineers(I now work at Airbus at Maintainability engineering for the A400M)If You are reffering to the "fish"element again there are some good and some bad same as the flight crew.
FD I have a fair idea who You are and believe Me We thought far less of You than You thought of Us are Your initials JB by any chance?
FD I have a fair idea who You are and believe Me We thought far less of You than You thought of Us are Your initials JB by any chance?
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Matkat.
Glad to hear you landed on your feet.
Thanks also for a rounded and at least objective response rather than the twadle other less well informed half wits sprout!
AAI are moving forward with somewhere in the region of 60 aircraft now on line. As you say with maintenance (AAI or external) there is always good and bad, the same rules apply to the crew. We have experienced all of these over the years, but the quality of both areas within AAI is improving. Ergo no 411a.
Glad to hear you landed on your feet.
Thanks also for a rounded and at least objective response rather than the twadle other less well informed half wits sprout!
AAI are moving forward with somewhere in the region of 60 aircraft now on line. As you say with maintenance (AAI or external) there is always good and bad, the same rules apply to the crew. We have experienced all of these over the years, but the quality of both areas within AAI is improving. Ergo no 411a.
anybody know if the aircraft is still at SHJ or has it been repaired and released by the authorities ?
The next flight it was going to do was to Beijing, for a C Check.
It was fixed in a few days as there was very little wrong with it, and it's in Beijing now getting the check done.
