Near Miss on Wednesday
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Near Miss on Wednesday
Anyone know anything about a near miss between a Baby 737 and a 'fast jet' that occurred on Wednesday (I think) causing the plane to be temporarily grounded due to 'over revving' of one of the engines? G-OGBD was the reg, I am led to believe and 400ft was the distance!
"AIRMISS" is the technical term!
"The agreed definition of an Airprox is a situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or a controller, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved was or may have been compromised."
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Inbound to Manchester, from Venice, Wednesday, approx 13:40pm. As passengers, my wife and I were disturbed by the proximity of another jet which flew west - east underneath us. We were aboard Jet 2.com 737 200 G-CHIA.
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Apart from 1 of those in the link that Hobie kindly provided they were all civil/military approxes. How do we get this situation ocurring with 2 sets of "professional" pilots (professional as opposed to GA)?
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"How do we get this wrong"
Not enough staff
Too many aircraft
Too many trainees
Lack of management planning
Think about it, we can fly a sector with trainees in the cockpit and on the ground, who cares. Tell the public thet they are flying with trainees! We all had to do it but it needs better monitorong and control. But no one will do it!
I look forward to your comments,
Rgds
ILS 119.5
Not enough staff
Too many aircraft
Too many trainees
Lack of management planning
Think about it, we can fly a sector with trainees in the cockpit and on the ground, who cares. Tell the public thet they are flying with trainees! We all had to do it but it needs better monitorong and control. But no one will do it!
I look forward to your comments,
Rgds
ILS 119.5
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Whoa! Whoa! Back to the original question, boys and girls. Was there an 'airprox' last Wednesday involving a Jet 2 737 -300? And just to satisfy my curiosity, how far should 'separation' be?
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From the CAA report:
"These details are subject to assessment by the independent UK Airprox Board. During 2003 there were 64 Airprox incidents involving commercial air transport and 83% of these were assessed as having no risk of collision."
In other words, 17% of the 64 aiproxes (airproxii?) = 11 did have a risk of collision?
"These details are subject to assessment by the independent UK Airprox Board. During 2003 there were 64 Airprox incidents involving commercial air transport and 83% of these were assessed as having no risk of collision."
In other words, 17% of the 64 aiproxes (airproxii?) = 11 did have a risk of collision?
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Inkjet,
Level busts are not the biggest single cause of airproxes in the UK, nor is the use of a conditional clearance the cause of the majority of level busts.
The largest causal factor in level busts in the UK in 2003 and 2004 are events where a pilot reads back the correct level from an ATC clearance but then, for some reason, the aircraft climbs or descends to an incorrect level. Some, but by no means all, of these will be at levels which are known to cause confusion, for example FL100 and FL110.
The second largest causal factor in level busts in the UK for the same period involve pilots failing to follow a SID correctly.
Level busts are not the biggest single cause of airproxes in the UK, nor is the use of a conditional clearance the cause of the majority of level busts.
The largest causal factor in level busts in the UK in 2003 and 2004 are events where a pilot reads back the correct level from an ATC clearance but then, for some reason, the aircraft climbs or descends to an incorrect level. Some, but by no means all, of these will be at levels which are known to cause confusion, for example FL100 and FL110.
The second largest causal factor in level busts in the UK for the same period involve pilots failing to follow a SID correctly.
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Mike Jeveny
Thats true but not bad when at least 80% of pilots that did not train in the UK do not know the call exists in the first place. Given the sub standerd RT from various European flag carriers(Iberia,Alitalia,Olympic to name but a small sample) and even worse comprehension coming in from the Gulf states its a wonder LATCE don't have more!
The standerd of english comprehension is getting worse every day its high time that this becomes a higher priority and if you cannot make the grade in the international langauge of the airways then you should not be flying them.
Its no wonder these guys don't improve as in their own country they can use their own language to confuse the rest of us!(France and Spain seem to exell at this)
Mind you some American crew don't shine either!
ATC: American XX route direct STRUMBLE... DIKAS
American XX: Ma'am did you just call me a dick ass
God help me when CPDLC comms become the norm I'll have to learn how to spell!!!!!
Thats true but not bad when at least 80% of pilots that did not train in the UK do not know the call exists in the first place. Given the sub standerd RT from various European flag carriers(Iberia,Alitalia,Olympic to name but a small sample) and even worse comprehension coming in from the Gulf states its a wonder LATCE don't have more!
The standerd of english comprehension is getting worse every day its high time that this becomes a higher priority and if you cannot make the grade in the international langauge of the airways then you should not be flying them.
Its no wonder these guys don't improve as in their own country they can use their own language to confuse the rest of us!(France and Spain seem to exell at this)
Mind you some American crew don't shine either!
ATC: American XX route direct STRUMBLE... DIKAS
American XX: Ma'am did you just call me a dick ass
God help me when CPDLC comms become the norm I'll have to learn how to spell!!!!!
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Inkjet...
Not strictly true ..I can and do operate 3 miles/1000 feet .That is of course as an approach controller in class d airspace..
Lawnraker
disturbed? in what way? where you flying the aircraft? please elaborate!What was the type of the second aircraft? was it close? did it simply look close?
ATC will provide at least 5 miles
Lawnraker
As passengers, my wife and I were disturbed by the proximity of another jet which flew west - east underneath us
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ATC: American XX route direct STRUMBLE... DIKAS
e came up with DIKAS in the first place? I know it's getting hard to produce ID's that are identifiable and unique, but I have some sympathy with any pilot that is surprised and maybe unhappy with that one.I am sure that there are probably other ID's that pronounced in certain ways are very offensive to non English speakers, so why single out Americans for this one, under certain circumstances, I could get caught or offended by something like this, and I don't easily or quickly take offence.
You use the ID's all day long, some (quite a few) pilots will never have heard it before, and may never hear it again, depending on who they fly for, and their normal area of operation.
Many of the points raised here in the latter part of the discussion are valid, but the thread started in a very strange manner, has the possibility of being a complete red herring, and with comments like this, stands a good chance of being dumped or worse, which helps no one.
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Hmmm.. Poor phraseology by "non English" pilots.
Not always the case in my experience. Iberia and Air Portugal have been mentioned and I am bound to say that the standard of RT from the peninsula is actually very good in most cases.
Contrast that with Air France and Alitalia. Now, I believe there is a reason behind their apparent difficulty in understanding and it's not to do with standard phraseology.
No, I understand most Italian and French Pilots learn aviation English from Americans. Hence when hearing English spoken in an English regional (or Irish or Scots etc) accent they find it very difficult. The same I suspect is true of American pilots themselves flying in UK skies.
All to do with "perception" you see.
Rgds BEX
Not always the case in my experience. Iberia and Air Portugal have been mentioned and I am bound to say that the standard of RT from the peninsula is actually very good in most cases.
Contrast that with Air France and Alitalia. Now, I believe there is a reason behind their apparent difficulty in understanding and it's not to do with standard phraseology.
No, I understand most Italian and French Pilots learn aviation English from Americans. Hence when hearing English spoken in an English regional (or Irish or Scots etc) accent they find it very difficult. The same I suspect is true of American pilots themselves flying in UK skies.
All to do with "perception" you see.
Rgds BEX