O'Leary going to Jail?
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I suppose that the reality is that Ryanair and its executives will continue with this nonsense, once again, until they are, once again, found to have behaved badly. No news there for seasoned Ryanair watchers. They will then apologise which, I'm told, is the way of "purging their contempt". Then, with one bound our heros will be free to repeat the same games once again. So we will discover that, for MOL at least, prison is once again not quite on the cards. What a pity.
But, surely, there must be an end to all of this? Do shareholders not get fed up at some point, or even the courts? Let's not kid ourselves - it is not Ryanair but ONE man that does these things. Surely it cannot go unnoticed that Ryanair is not finding these expensive hearings at all sympathetic to its arguments. In the end there will be serious problems for MOL. I'm hoping that it will be as soon as tomorrow, but I'm prepared to wait. He will be nailed in the end.
In the interim we have the fascinating prospect that we will be seeing some creepy-crawly middle management types under cross-examination. It will be interesting to see how they explain their actions. As with any good soap opera, it looks like there are months of excitement still to come!
But, surely, there must be an end to all of this? Do shareholders not get fed up at some point, or even the courts? Let's not kid ourselves - it is not Ryanair but ONE man that does these things. Surely it cannot go unnoticed that Ryanair is not finding these expensive hearings at all sympathetic to its arguments. In the end there will be serious problems for MOL. I'm hoping that it will be as soon as tomorrow, but I'm prepared to wait. He will be nailed in the end.
In the interim we have the fascinating prospect that we will be seeing some creepy-crawly middle management types under cross-examination. It will be interesting to see how they explain their actions. As with any good soap opera, it looks like there are months of excitement still to come!
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GGV...
You mean today's latest court ruling in France?
Shamrock
Surely it cannot go unnoticed that Ryanair is not finding these expensive hearings at all sympathetic to its arguments.
Shamrock
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it is my honest belief that o'leary is now hiding his ineffective management style by throwing up smokescreens.
the share price is garbage.
the passenger figures are below that of easy despite the fact that they fly to real airports.
the inflight entertainment was a flop.
ryanair telecom went tits up two days ago citing large losses.
we are hiring third world pilots and cabin crew to shore up the holes.
now they are starting to flog alco shots on board.
the scratch cards are a dead loss and there was ever only one car to be won,which has long since gone but I believe the cards remain for sale.
the company failed to honour its agreement to double flight crew contributions to the tsunami appeal.
there is no record of charitable donations from the scratchcards,which was promised.
they are systematically raping the employee terms and conditions.
the slave labour crew manning agencies are run from within higher management.
illegal aid in in france and belguim.
the ceo,head of ops and the CHIEF PILOT also now up in court for bullying and contempt.
the chief pilot and base captains are afraid to say no to the megalomaniac,so all the **** is hidden in return for a sweetener.
failure of fuel hedging policy.
crew so pissed off that they will do anything but do the company a favour.
what's o'learys answer,throw his toys out of the cot because he cannot have his own terminal at dublin and lead some crusade in his head against the pilots and the union.
this company need a quality management team or there is trouble ahead and soon.not a bunch of bluffers,bungers and bullies.
the pilots of this company are tired of directing their efforts in an aimless way and are crying out to be lead and allowed to make this company great.we need real management to lead this company forward and management/pilot dialogue.
the share price is garbage.
the passenger figures are below that of easy despite the fact that they fly to real airports.
the inflight entertainment was a flop.
ryanair telecom went tits up two days ago citing large losses.
we are hiring third world pilots and cabin crew to shore up the holes.
now they are starting to flog alco shots on board.
the scratch cards are a dead loss and there was ever only one car to be won,which has long since gone but I believe the cards remain for sale.
the company failed to honour its agreement to double flight crew contributions to the tsunami appeal.
there is no record of charitable donations from the scratchcards,which was promised.
they are systematically raping the employee terms and conditions.
the slave labour crew manning agencies are run from within higher management.
illegal aid in in france and belguim.
the ceo,head of ops and the CHIEF PILOT also now up in court for bullying and contempt.
the chief pilot and base captains are afraid to say no to the megalomaniac,so all the **** is hidden in return for a sweetener.
failure of fuel hedging policy.
crew so pissed off that they will do anything but do the company a favour.
what's o'learys answer,throw his toys out of the cot because he cannot have his own terminal at dublin and lead some crusade in his head against the pilots and the union.
this company need a quality management team or there is trouble ahead and soon.not a bunch of bluffers,bungers and bullies.
the pilots of this company are tired of directing their efforts in an aimless way and are crying out to be lead and allowed to make this company great.we need real management to lead this company forward and management/pilot dialogue.
Last edited by the grim repa; 11th May 2005 at 19:38.
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'Twas magical - for a while, then megalomania set in... Like I said, MOL you've cut thru all the fat in sight. Now you've cut into muscle and bone. Expect that's the way to make the corporate body work better? Not.
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Yes, the tone from the Ryanair team is ever so slowly changing. Signs of unease from the henchment (worrying about their court appearances?) along with ever increasing irreverance from the press. The Court system in Ireland is clearly less and less amused at doing Ryanair's industrial relations for them.
The stories about Ryanair apologists being told to withdraw from participation in PPruNe would also appear to be true. An outbreak of nervousness about some of their postings perhaps? Or just a change of strategy?
We rely on somebody in Dublin to bring us news of today's High Court appearance by the Ryanair team and what effect this may have on the Ryanair E.G.M. (also due today, right?). That would be appreciated.
The stories about Ryanair apologists being told to withdraw from participation in PPruNe would also appear to be true. An outbreak of nervousness about some of their postings perhaps? Or just a change of strategy?
We rely on somebody in Dublin to bring us news of today's High Court appearance by the Ryanair team and what effect this may have on the Ryanair E.G.M. (also due today, right?). That would be appreciated.
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I think whats most remarkable about the sudden silence here from Ryanair management fans is that it would indicate there was indeed a concerted and organised propaganda campaign being waged on these boards until recently.
We might all have suspected it, but its still amazing to see it this clearly.
We might all have suspected it, but its still amazing to see it this clearly.
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Keeping abreast of events today
Here's the first report of the High Court hearing in Dublin in which the "attachment" of Michael O'Leary and others is being sought. It's adjourned for the day, and will resume tomorrow, (Fri 13th...)
If anyone wants to follow events, the fastest updates are generally on the website of RTE, the Irish public service broadcaster (www.rte.ie/news). Here's their version:
Ryanair pilot seeks O'Leary jailing
12 May 2005 17:15 [GMT=1]
New proceedings seeking the jailing of Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary and two senior colleagues for alleged contempt of a court order opened before Mr Justice Barry White in the High Court today.
Pilot John Goss is seeking the imprisonment of Mr O'Leary, David O'Brien, the head of flight and ground operations, and Ray Conway, the chief pilot.
Captain Goss claims they are in contempt of court because they failed to restore him to flying duties with the airline.
On 27 April the High Court made a mandatory order compelling the airline to reinstate Captain Goss, who is also seeking an order directing the sequestration of Ryanair's assets.
Captain Goss said on affidavit that he was shocked at the behaviour of Ryanair and the extraordinary lengths to which it seems to be prepared to go to prevent him returning to flying duties, and to thwart the orders of the High Court.
In their affidavits Mr O'Leary and his colleagues reject the allegations that they are in contempt of court.
The hearing will continue tomorrow.
They reported earlier that this morning's EGM in Dublin approved the purchase of the 737NGs.
Will try to post any update tomorrow if I see them, although I'm in the wrong hemisphere and time zone right now
I'll now indulge myself with some idle speculation for a moment, but at least openly so.
I can't help feeling that although this isn't their first appearance, the court may not throw the book at them yet. That's because they're accused of failing to comply with an interim injunction, rather than an injunction issued after a full hearing. That hearing of the substantive issues won't come up until May 31st. But what would I know...
Shamrock 602
If anyone wants to follow events, the fastest updates are generally on the website of RTE, the Irish public service broadcaster (www.rte.ie/news). Here's their version:
Ryanair pilot seeks O'Leary jailing
12 May 2005 17:15 [GMT=1]
New proceedings seeking the jailing of Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary and two senior colleagues for alleged contempt of a court order opened before Mr Justice Barry White in the High Court today.
Pilot John Goss is seeking the imprisonment of Mr O'Leary, David O'Brien, the head of flight and ground operations, and Ray Conway, the chief pilot.
Captain Goss claims they are in contempt of court because they failed to restore him to flying duties with the airline.
On 27 April the High Court made a mandatory order compelling the airline to reinstate Captain Goss, who is also seeking an order directing the sequestration of Ryanair's assets.
Captain Goss said on affidavit that he was shocked at the behaviour of Ryanair and the extraordinary lengths to which it seems to be prepared to go to prevent him returning to flying duties, and to thwart the orders of the High Court.
In their affidavits Mr O'Leary and his colleagues reject the allegations that they are in contempt of court.
The hearing will continue tomorrow.
They reported earlier that this morning's EGM in Dublin approved the purchase of the 737NGs.
Will try to post any update tomorrow if I see them, although I'm in the wrong hemisphere and time zone right now
I'll now indulge myself with some idle speculation for a moment, but at least openly so.
I can't help feeling that although this isn't their first appearance, the court may not throw the book at them yet. That's because they're accused of failing to comply with an interim injunction, rather than an injunction issued after a full hearing. That hearing of the substantive issues won't come up until May 31st. But what would I know...Shamrock 602
Last edited by Shamrock 602; 13th May 2005 at 11:19.
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Slightly off topic.maybe worth a different thread.
Some one mentioned in an earlier post that they are hiring useless third world pilots. I dont know about useless but i am aware of an example of a pilot with an african atpl form a dodgy authority being offered a job. They must be confident of an easy route to a jar licence being issued , if you know what i mean,wink wink bejasus. No uk operator would touch this guy or guys like him with his/their current qualifications and "hrs".So their poison infiltrates on all levels. They may be registered in ireland but they are lowering the standards of qualification in England by virtue of their main base. Got to be another court case in there somewhere with enought digging. Remember the airtours blagger!! Now either Jar is a micky mouse licence to be given away or someone knows something i dont. Easier country same licence for example. Can we all have our training money back please as it seems it wasnt necessary. All you need is two dodgy yrs on a dodgy jet with a dodgy licence in umbongo and an equally dodgy irishman. For eastern europe add the suffix "ski" to the above requirements.
AAAh thats better
Some one mentioned in an earlier post that they are hiring useless third world pilots. I dont know about useless but i am aware of an example of a pilot with an african atpl form a dodgy authority being offered a job. They must be confident of an easy route to a jar licence being issued , if you know what i mean,wink wink bejasus. No uk operator would touch this guy or guys like him with his/their current qualifications and "hrs".So their poison infiltrates on all levels. They may be registered in ireland but they are lowering the standards of qualification in England by virtue of their main base. Got to be another court case in there somewhere with enought digging. Remember the airtours blagger!! Now either Jar is a micky mouse licence to be given away or someone knows something i dont. Easier country same licence for example. Can we all have our training money back please as it seems it wasnt necessary. All you need is two dodgy yrs on a dodgy jet with a dodgy licence in umbongo and an equally dodgy irishman. For eastern europe add the suffix "ski" to the above requirements.
AAAh thats better
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Hanging in the breeze
Rte are reporting that "the hearing continues tomorrow"
Looks like if nothing else, it's being looked at very closely.
More details
here
Looks like if nothing else, it's being looked at very closely.
More details
here
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What truth to the rumour that the IAA recently sat in on sim checks in Poland for prospective FR pilots and found virtually all of them unsuitable?
With FR now the airline of last choice, the employment market doing well, soon to be one new aircraft a week arriving (i.e. 10 new pilots required a week) and already a serious shortage at FR, it looks like the party is over for MOL. I guess the sudden realisation that they are about to find it impossible to crew the aircraft is behind the sweetener being paid to those who recommend a friend.
How long before they need to up the Ts and Cs considerably in order to attract, other than the desperate, anything near the numbers they clearly need?
With FR now the airline of last choice, the employment market doing well, soon to be one new aircraft a week arriving (i.e. 10 new pilots required a week) and already a serious shortage at FR, it looks like the party is over for MOL. I guess the sudden realisation that they are about to find it impossible to crew the aircraft is behind the sweetener being paid to those who recommend a friend.
How long before they need to up the Ts and Cs considerably in order to attract, other than the desperate, anything near the numbers they clearly need?
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Nature of the injunction
Shamrock 602, I am 99% sure that it is a MANDATORY INJUNCTION.
The question is how the court will react to its injunction being breached. They often give people "one more chance" to comply - the question is, starting from when!
Just to make it clear again, I'm not a laywer, so this is mere speculation. I'm sure that Akerosid could put us right on the legal matters. But I've watched a few of these go through the courts, and it is rarely quite as cut as dried as it might seem, based on what is of necessity an abbreviated account.
But you're right, sparks may yet fly, and it'll certainly be interesting...
Shamrock
With FR now the airline of last choice, the employment market doing well...I guess the sudden realisation that they are about to find it impossible to crew the aircraft is behind the sweetener being paid to those who recommend a friend.
I'd wager that MOL will still manage to find enough folk within the industry willing to work for him, it may just result in a dilution of the experience levels within the FR crews to do it.
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it may just result in a dilution of the experience levels within the FR crews to do it.
To ban charging mobile phones in the office, and then be faced with the sorts of costs that are implied here is "interesting" in the extreme. It suggests that someone has lost the plot, which I suppose is what quite a few people here have been trying to say for some considerable time.
Time will tell. Exactly what it will tell is still open, and it could go a number of ways.
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charley,you can tell your buddies that they don't know anything about bad until they join and not to come crying in their cornflakes to us when they realise what its all about.other than that tell 'em to get the cheque book out.
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I'd wager that MOL will still manage to find enough folk within the industry willing to work for him,
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Irish Steve is dead on! Low time Pilots are slow and DO NOT fit into the low cost model.
MOL has screwed up big time and my best guess is HE WILL BE IMPRISONED TOMORROW. The excuse for a human being has lost the plot and I for one have the fizzy wine on ice tonight.
What a great day for Aviation Friday the 13th will be.
MOL has screwed up big time and my best guess is HE WILL BE IMPRISONED TOMORROW. The excuse for a human being has lost the plot and I for one have the fizzy wine on ice tonight.
What a great day for Aviation Friday the 13th will be.
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Another version of those court proceeings
Here's a newspaper version of the opening day of the contempt proceedings against MOL et al. It's from The Irish Times (requires subscription, but breaking news carried on www.ireland.com)
Looking at the last few pars (in bold), it seems as if the judge's patience is wearing a bit thin. Whether these particular tea leaves mean anything is another matter.
No doubt MOL will appeal to the Supreme Court if it goes against him. More today...
Shamrock 602
Ryanair's O'Leary denies being in contempt of court
The Irish Times, Friday 13th May 2005
Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary denied an allegation in the High Court yesterday that he was in contempt of a previous court order in relation to a pilot who claims the company has failed to restore him to flying duties.
Mr O'Leary, in an affidavit, said he absolutely rejected the contempt allegation and said there was no basis for his attachment or committal to prison or for the sequestration of the company's assets.
He said the previous court order specifically did not prevent Ryanair from making decisions about the suitability of the pilot, John Goss, to fly on bona fide safety grounds.
Mr Goss has brought an application to jail three Ryanair executives for alleged contempt: Mr O'Leary; the director of flight and ground operations, David O'Brien; and the company's chief pilot, Ray Conway.
The airline told Mr Goss in a letter of April 12th last that it was sensible and operationally appropriate that he should be suspended on full pay until a court hearing previously fixed for May 31st and any subsequent disciplinary process were concluded.
In submissions yesterday, senior counsel Hugh Mohan, for Mr Goss, said that since earlier proceedings, his client had not been put back on flying duties.
In his affidavit, Mr O'Leary said he rejected the allegations by Mr Goss that he was attempting to thwart or breach the court order.
Also in an affidavit, Mr O'Brien said he had no hand, act or part in the decision to stand down Mr Goss from the flying duties for which he had been rostered.
Mr Justice White at the end of yesterday's hearing commented: "I have observed Mr O'Leary chewing on a biro from time to time. Is that indicative of stress on the part of Mr O'Leary or lack of respect for this court? Please get instructions."
Richard Nesbitt SC in reply said: "He understands absolutely the importance of this court and is entirely understanding of your lordship's powers and is fully respectful of the court."
The hearing continues today [Fri 13 May].
© The Irish Times
Looking at the last few pars (in bold), it seems as if the judge's patience is wearing a bit thin. Whether these particular tea leaves mean anything is another matter.
No doubt MOL will appeal to the Supreme Court if it goes against him. More today...
Shamrock 602
Ryanair's O'Leary denies being in contempt of court
The Irish Times, Friday 13th May 2005
Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary denied an allegation in the High Court yesterday that he was in contempt of a previous court order in relation to a pilot who claims the company has failed to restore him to flying duties.
Mr O'Leary, in an affidavit, said he absolutely rejected the contempt allegation and said there was no basis for his attachment or committal to prison or for the sequestration of the company's assets.
He said the previous court order specifically did not prevent Ryanair from making decisions about the suitability of the pilot, John Goss, to fly on bona fide safety grounds.
Mr Goss has brought an application to jail three Ryanair executives for alleged contempt: Mr O'Leary; the director of flight and ground operations, David O'Brien; and the company's chief pilot, Ray Conway.
The airline told Mr Goss in a letter of April 12th last that it was sensible and operationally appropriate that he should be suspended on full pay until a court hearing previously fixed for May 31st and any subsequent disciplinary process were concluded.
In submissions yesterday, senior counsel Hugh Mohan, for Mr Goss, said that since earlier proceedings, his client had not been put back on flying duties.
In his affidavit, Mr O'Leary said he rejected the allegations by Mr Goss that he was attempting to thwart or breach the court order.
Also in an affidavit, Mr O'Brien said he had no hand, act or part in the decision to stand down Mr Goss from the flying duties for which he had been rostered.
Mr Justice White at the end of yesterday's hearing commented: "I have observed Mr O'Leary chewing on a biro from time to time. Is that indicative of stress on the part of Mr O'Leary or lack of respect for this court? Please get instructions."
Richard Nesbitt SC in reply said: "He understands absolutely the importance of this court and is entirely understanding of your lordship's powers and is fully respectful of the court."
The hearing continues today [Fri 13 May].
© The Irish Times
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Low hours pilots have worked well so far and produced better captains than some of the contractors that are coming in. The problem is that when conditions hit rock bottom, only low hour pilots and those not good enough to go elsewhere are attracted by the package reducing the overall experience and quality with obvious implications. Roll on the hearing and good luck to JG!!!