O'Leary going to Jail?
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411A, I too have normally avoided saying anything in response to your inane, opinionated and rambling posts (which you seem to be prepared to make on any subject, and in a manner that suggests that YOUR opinion is in someway special). Your problem, which I seem to recall many people repeatedly making clear at other times, is not so much your opinions - to which you are as welcome as everyone else - but your basic ability to read what has been written and to understand what is going on.
Once again we see this repeated lack of ability to grasp what is obvious. This time you have sailed into another thread, apparently oblivious to what has been going on, to express your "horror" thus:
This, as everybody else will have noticed, is not what has been at issue at any time in any thread on Ryanair. How come you did not see this? What way do you read what is written; is it through special "411A tinted glasses"?
What is, what has been and what will be at issue is a corporate culture of intimidation and bullying centred on one notable personality and the inability of pilots to find an adequate means of addressing their interests and needs.
Your apparent inability to read the English language and willingness to spout drivel on YOUR current hobby-horse is undiminised by anything said anywhere on PPRuNe.
You are not likely to read this post in any other way than serves what you were going to say anyway. However, you might like to take the opportunity to make clear to us all what your position on intimidation and bullying is. You might also like to tell us if the judges (note the plural) who have made their position on Ryanair very clear also "want Ryanair to fold". I look forward to reading what you say and how you say it ... go ahead, confirm you just don't get it, or just don't want to get it.
Once again we see this repeated lack of ability to grasp what is obvious. This time you have sailed into another thread, apparently oblivious to what has been going on, to express your "horror" thus:
I find it truly quite amazing that many posters here would desire FR to fold.
What is, what has been and what will be at issue is a corporate culture of intimidation and bullying centred on one notable personality and the inability of pilots to find an adequate means of addressing their interests and needs.
Your apparent inability to read the English language and willingness to spout drivel on YOUR current hobby-horse is undiminised by anything said anywhere on PPRuNe.
You are not likely to read this post in any other way than serves what you were going to say anyway. However, you might like to take the opportunity to make clear to us all what your position on intimidation and bullying is. You might also like to tell us if the judges (note the plural) who have made their position on Ryanair very clear also "want Ryanair to fold". I look forward to reading what you say and how you say it ... go ahead, confirm you just don't get it, or just don't want to get it.
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Normally i am not a great fan of 411As postings, but actually he has a very good and valid point here (for a change!!)
FR provides hundreds of jobs and also the travelling public with a good service that they want. If they were to fold it would bring an enormous amount of suffering and worry to hundreds of people, MOL would not suffer ashe has already "cashed in" on the success of FR. I just wish MOL would grow up and stop being such a b*stard to his employees. There is no justification for it and i am sure a change of image would in fact do the company alot of good.
FR provides hundreds of jobs and also the travelling public with a good service that they want. If they were to fold it would bring an enormous amount of suffering and worry to hundreds of people, MOL would not suffer ashe has already "cashed in" on the success of FR. I just wish MOL would grow up and stop being such a b*stard to his employees. There is no justification for it and i am sure a change of image would in fact do the company alot of good.
411A, whilst your comments regarding aggressive and greedy unions driving an airline to the wall might well be true, in the Ryanair context this is irrelevant.
The employees of Ryanair do not appear to be making any unreasonable demands; rather, they are seeking collective bargaining methods to protect them from ever more erosions to their terms and conditions of employment.
This whole horn-locking saga seems so utterly self-defeating; if O'Leary really wants the airline to succeed, he should work with, not against his work force.
This court case must be a turning point; will the shareholders subsequently demand that O'Leary steps down?
The employees of Ryanair do not appear to be making any unreasonable demands; rather, they are seeking collective bargaining methods to protect them from ever more erosions to their terms and conditions of employment.
This whole horn-locking saga seems so utterly self-defeating; if O'Leary really wants the airline to succeed, he should work with, not against his work force.
This court case must be a turning point; will the shareholders subsequently demand that O'Leary steps down?
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Just in case anyone, including the ignorant are in any doubt, NOONE at Ryanair wants it to fold!!! Ryanair has the potential to be a great Company to work for. It only needs the correct type of leadership. Sadly, we are unlikely to get it from Leo. He seems to believe that by abusing his staff to save pennies (banning of phone chargers as the extreme example), he can afford to waste millions in futile court battles. He thinks all the pilots hate him so he hates all the pilots. It is a vicious circle which is unlikely to be broken until his retirement. Hopefully the major shareholders will wake up to the money he is wasting compared to what he is 'saving' in the very short term and help him out the door.
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I agree with the most recent posters and I think the change in tone of the courts, the media and the political establishment in Ireland spell serious trouble for MOL. While this may be a temporary blip, I doubt it. The tone of absolute irreverance towards MOL in some of the press coverage is there to be seen for those who wish too see it. Are we seeing an ever increasing decline in the slipperly slope?
stilljustanothernumber
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411A
Do you think there is any limit to which an employer can go before employees are allowed to fight back?
(Please don't bother to reply, I'm not actually interested in your one-sided rants
)
(Please don't bother to reply, I'm not actually interested in your one-sided rants
)
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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1 MOL is not Ryanair he is an employee of Ryanair, allbeit one with shares in the company.
2 Ryanair will offer jobs to pilots as long as aircraft require 2 people to sit up front and the company is profitable.
3 Unlike pilots Directors are disposable.
4 Don't take too much notice of 411A, he's only a Cessna twin.
2 Ryanair will offer jobs to pilots as long as aircraft require 2 people to sit up front and the company is profitable.
3 Unlike pilots Directors are disposable.
4 Don't take too much notice of 411A, he's only a Cessna twin.
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Don't get to excited by the prospect. Contempt in Ireland is a civil and not a criminal offence (he says authoritativly, but to be honest I have just been "assured" that this is the case by somebody else!).
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To 411A and any other individual out there who thinks we want FR to go bust....please explain the mechanism by which you imagine this will happen?
Is it something like this:-
O'Leary and/or his cohort are thrown in jail.
The public suddenly decide they won't fly FR any more.
The company goes tits up.
If so, let me offer you an alternative scenario:-
O'Leary and/or his cohort are thrown in jail.
The pax don't give a **** as long as the ticket is still only 9.99
The company continues to flourish.
The only thing that is likely to change if Leo gets humped is a major improvement in staff morale...always a good thing for profits.
Is it something like this:-
O'Leary and/or his cohort are thrown in jail.
The public suddenly decide they won't fly FR any more.
The company goes tits up.
If so, let me offer you an alternative scenario:-
O'Leary and/or his cohort are thrown in jail.
The pax don't give a **** as long as the ticket is still only 9.99
The company continues to flourish.
The only thing that is likely to change if Leo gets humped is a major improvement in staff morale...always a good thing for profits.
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To 411A & anyone of similar ilk: there have been many airlines, Eastern for one, who have gone to the wall, and none of them have been due to pilot union action. They have all been due to inept or corrupt management. Of anyone in an airline it is the pilots who have a long-term interext in its survival. This utter C#@p that is spoken about unions wanting or causing the downfall of an airline; show us one occaision!?!
It is about time that pilots stand up for themselves and do not allow all this slanderous venom to continue.
RYR will not fold due pilot action; it will only strengthen.
It is about time that pilots stand up for themselves and do not allow all this slanderous venom to continue.
RYR will not fold due pilot action; it will only strengthen.
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Can it be...?
Sadly (for the pilots) BEagle, I really believe they are mis-informed.
The FR pilots (as a collective body) want a change of faces in the executive suite, as many truly believe MOL is a detriment for the company.
This whole scenario reminds me of the 'ole National Airlines in MIA.
Bud Maytag was seen as a very bad dude by the pilots, yet he was able to play 'em like a violin at every opportunity.
ALPO representation, contracts, pay...the lot.
Try this on for size.
Pilots anger is directed at MOL, so he is 'retired' fo the family farm, with the usual generous payout.
The pilots rejoyce...HE is gone.
Quietly however, the screws are turned on the pilots (again as a collective body) and nothing really changes, just a change of faces, not a change of modus operendi.
Pilots (as a group) are usually pretty dumb when it comes to this type of maneuvering...and I expect it will be no different now.
In short, they is screwed....either way.
I can only laugh at their stupidity.
Oh yeah, forgot to add.
Bud Maytag sold National to PanAmerican for $400million, and retired to his stud farm.
The pilots...right to the bottom of the PanAm seniority list they went...DC10 Captains became B727 Flight Engineers.
Bud had the last laugh, without a doubt.
The FR pilots (as a collective body) want a change of faces in the executive suite, as many truly believe MOL is a detriment for the company.
This whole scenario reminds me of the 'ole National Airlines in MIA.
Bud Maytag was seen as a very bad dude by the pilots, yet he was able to play 'em like a violin at every opportunity.
ALPO representation, contracts, pay...the lot.
Try this on for size.
Pilots anger is directed at MOL, so he is 'retired' fo the family farm, with the usual generous payout.
The pilots rejoyce...HE is gone.
Quietly however, the screws are turned on the pilots (again as a collective body) and nothing really changes, just a change of faces, not a change of modus operendi.
Pilots (as a group) are usually pretty dumb when it comes to this type of maneuvering...and I expect it will be no different now.
In short, they is screwed....either way.
I can only laugh at their stupidity.
Oh yeah, forgot to add.
Bud Maytag sold National to PanAmerican for $400million, and retired to his stud farm.
The pilots...right to the bottom of the PanAm seniority list they went...DC10 Captains became B727 Flight Engineers.
Bud had the last laugh, without a doubt.
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Share price €5.55 down 2.5%
I believe it will be a better airline for both the shareholders and the employees if O'Leary is removed and Howard Miller or Michael Cawley take over the helm.
The board are watching this very carefully.
I believe it will be a better airline for both the shareholders and the employees if O'Leary is removed and Howard Miller or Michael Cawley take over the helm.
The board are watching this very carefully.
Last edited by Kaiser Sose; 30th Apr 2005 at 07:00.
I'm afraid I've looked at the Airlines accounts and one or two analysts reports, and I'm afraid I am yet to be impressed by Ryaniare's commercial acumen. The runs are not yet on the board.
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Hallelujah,
Me forgets where this quote came from but: "Socialists love the poor so much they make more of them". Could MOL be a closet socialist? Just a thought
Me forgets where this quote came from but: "Socialists love the poor so much they make more of them". Could MOL be a closet socialist? Just a thought
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Just to get back to the "going to jail" bit of this thread. As far as I can make out, the judge said that MOL and DOB, as individuals, and Ryanair as a airline, will all face the "contempt of court" charge at the main trial which takes place at the end of May.
If I get this right, this means that he has not actually escaped, but that the matter has merely been put off until later. This, it has just dawned on me, may be even worse for him depending upon how badly the case goes for Ryanair. After all, it is widely rumoured that Ryanair may have big problems with this case.
So, maybe he really could go to jail!!??
If I get this right, this means that he has not actually escaped, but that the matter has merely been put off until later. This, it has just dawned on me, may be even worse for him depending upon how badly the case goes for Ryanair. After all, it is widely rumoured that Ryanair may have big problems with this case.
So, maybe he really could go to jail!!??
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Well saline you must be either a manager or a business type, in which case an organised proletariat is your worst nightmare, right? And naturally the concept of a Social Contract gives you the twitches. Your best bet is to stay over there in the US and continue raping your workforce, where thats acceptable behaviour - you wouldn't like it much over here in Old Europe.
On the other hand, if by any slim chance you are just another misguided wage slave, content to place your trust in the capitalist system, and to trust in the integritry of your bosses to look after your future - Dream On. The workers at ENRON enjoyed the fruits of the capitalist system (for a while), and trusted Ken Lay to look after them. DOH!
I fervently hope that you - like those poor ENRON suckers - will soon be educated as to the facts of life in the new dog eat dog world-order, and that you will see your working conditions swiftly eroded and spend the latter years of your life struggling to survive after your pension has been embezzled by your greedy employer.
411A you don't get it yet. While most pilots at FR (and in many other companies) might have no love for O'Leary, to imagine that any of them wish to join a union with the aim in mind of taking action to oust him from his job - thats plain stupid.
Keep trying, the penny will eventually drop.
On the other hand, if by any slim chance you are just another misguided wage slave, content to place your trust in the capitalist system, and to trust in the integritry of your bosses to look after your future - Dream On. The workers at ENRON enjoyed the fruits of the capitalist system (for a while), and trusted Ken Lay to look after them. DOH!
I fervently hope that you - like those poor ENRON suckers - will soon be educated as to the facts of life in the new dog eat dog world-order, and that you will see your working conditions swiftly eroded and spend the latter years of your life struggling to survive after your pension has been embezzled by your greedy employer.
411A you don't get it yet. While most pilots at FR (and in many other companies) might have no love for O'Leary, to imagine that any of them wish to join a union with the aim in mind of taking action to oust him from his job - thats plain stupid.
Keep trying, the penny will eventually drop.