O'Leary going to Jail?
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Bit late to hear the news, but we heard you (no doubt about that!) departing LGW Thurs night Capt Goss. Well done. Now if management could just step back a few paces and realize that winning is not about employees losing...
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Howzat? . . . from Bruce and Bruce. . .
. . . . and Bruce, down here where some battle-scarred Aussie pilots look wistfully at justice's wheels grinding on in Dublin.
The Goss case is no doubt a landmark one in the making. Whatever industrial relations lessons are learnt and advancements made, I harbour the faint hope that a few, a few with remnant spine, among the ranks of those entirely self-serving pilots and airline employees scrabbling away on their respective mouldering heaps, will look in your direction for codes of conduct and other object lessons besides. Then there are those that are legion, our brothers and sisters who can never, will never, enjoy the benefits of a fair arbiter, available to redress the wrongs they must daily endure. Spare them a thought.
John Goss, Sir, you are an inspiration. May you continue on in the face of whatever adversity the elements throw at you and your allies, at home or away, and like a good Irish oath, keep on keepin' on, whatever the gradient. (And con the far horizon from your wheelhouse, knowing that there's some good in this poor old world.)
The Goss case is no doubt a landmark one in the making. Whatever industrial relations lessons are learnt and advancements made, I harbour the faint hope that a few, a few with remnant spine, among the ranks of those entirely self-serving pilots and airline employees scrabbling away on their respective mouldering heaps, will look in your direction for codes of conduct and other object lessons besides. Then there are those that are legion, our brothers and sisters who can never, will never, enjoy the benefits of a fair arbiter, available to redress the wrongs they must daily endure. Spare them a thought.
John Goss, Sir, you are an inspiration. May you continue on in the face of whatever adversity the elements throw at you and your allies, at home or away, and like a good Irish oath, keep on keepin' on, whatever the gradient. (And con the far horizon from your wheelhouse, knowing that there's some good in this poor old world.)
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I think you will find that good will triumph over evil every time.
Sorry MOL but you are the most misdirected human being and your time is drawing near. You need to change the way you lead your life before the drop you are heading for is so far you will never get up.
Sorry MOL but you are the most misdirected human being and your time is drawing near. You need to change the way you lead your life before the drop you are heading for is so far you will never get up.
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Breaking News.
High Court adjourns O'Leary decision
25 May 2005 11:04
The High Court has adjourned a decision on an application for the jailing of Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary for alleged contempt of court order.
Mr Justice Barry White was expected to give his decision on the application in relation to Mr O'Leary and two other company executives this morning.
However, he announced that he didn't propose giving his judgement in this action until the full trial has concluded.
The full trial is due for a 3-day hearing on 31 May.
High Court adjourns O'Leary decision
25 May 2005 11:04
The High Court has adjourned a decision on an application for the jailing of Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary for alleged contempt of court order.
Mr Justice Barry White was expected to give his decision on the application in relation to Mr O'Leary and two other company executives this morning.
However, he announced that he didn't propose giving his judgement in this action until the full trial has concluded.
The full trial is due for a 3-day hearing on 31 May.
Uncle Pete
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John Goss
It's great to hear that you are back flying again.
I just hope that the Ryannair management has learn a lesson from this action. I very much doubt it as they appear to be somewhat lacking in that department.
Justice will prevail.
MP
It's great to hear that you are back flying again.
I just hope that the Ryannair management has learn a lesson from this action. I very much doubt it as they appear to be somewhat lacking in that department.
Justice will prevail.
MP
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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Interesting to see that RyanAir profits are supposedly up this year. Please dont get me wrong, I would never fly with them on principle, but shareholders/money people will not be hacked off with the management if they keep the cash rolling........
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check out the latest recruitment ad. in flight international.
outstanding earning potential.
best paid short haul pilots in europe.
5 on,3 off.
rosters published 4 weeks in advance.
command EVALUATION process within 3 years or 6 months.
share options worth 250,000 euros each.
must speak english fluently.
charges for entry listed on ryanair website.
base at any of our many european bases.
well it sounds too good to be true.
you will break your balls for every euro.
no pension.
no loss of licence cover.
pay for your medicals and do it on your day off,after you have personally arranged it.
pay for your uniform.
pay for your type rating.
pay for your transport.
pay for your accomodation.
roster fixed for one week but changes daily.
not every base has 5 on,3 off, roster pattern.
EVALUATION is not a guaranteed command or no where near it.one good thing about ryanair is that the monkeys are kept out of the left seat.
you will be based where ryanair want you and not negotiable.
pay for your own tea,coffee and water.
bring your own sandwiches to work.
when you do overnight,you have to pay for accom. and transport and claim it back.
no operational backup.photocopied jepp plates,no weather/notams when you need them.
no pilot management,all cap in hand to m.o'l.
may sign on for left seat and find that after training you are right seat bound.
bullies for managers.
filthy aircraft and crew area.
other than that it is fine.welcome aboard.
outstanding earning potential.
best paid short haul pilots in europe.
5 on,3 off.
rosters published 4 weeks in advance.
command EVALUATION process within 3 years or 6 months.
share options worth 250,000 euros each.
must speak english fluently.
charges for entry listed on ryanair website.
base at any of our many european bases.
well it sounds too good to be true.
you will break your balls for every euro.
no pension.
no loss of licence cover.
pay for your medicals and do it on your day off,after you have personally arranged it.
pay for your uniform.
pay for your type rating.
pay for your transport.
pay for your accomodation.
roster fixed for one week but changes daily.
not every base has 5 on,3 off, roster pattern.
EVALUATION is not a guaranteed command or no where near it.one good thing about ryanair is that the monkeys are kept out of the left seat.
you will be based where ryanair want you and not negotiable.
pay for your own tea,coffee and water.
bring your own sandwiches to work.
when you do overnight,you have to pay for accom. and transport and claim it back.
no operational backup.photocopied jepp plates,no weather/notams when you need them.
no pilot management,all cap in hand to m.o'l.
may sign on for left seat and find that after training you are right seat bound.
bullies for managers.
filthy aircraft and crew area.
other than that it is fine.welcome aboard.
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May I add that the 6 months to upgrade is a laugh. Some friends off mine are still waiting a year onwards due to an growing shortess of trainers.... at the same time RYR has started to do their own TR internally.... 
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First day of the main hearing
First day in court yesterday. It's set to last several days. Judgement is normally "reserved" in these cases, to be delivered some days or weeks later. Then there's the likelihood of an appeal to the Supreme Court....
There has also been a change in the judge hearing the case.
Shamrock 602 (from afar)
Pilot claims Ryanair initiated action against him in bad faith
Irish Times, Wednesday 1st June 2005
A senior pilot who is seeking a number of orders against Ryanair claimed in the High Court yesterday [31st May] that a disciplinary process instituted against him by the airline had been embarked upon in bad faith.
The action, by pilot John Goss (51), Malahide, Co Dublin, against Ryanair began yesterday before Mr Justice Declan Budd and is expected to last several days.
Over the past two months, the court has heard a number of related issues between the sides, including a claim by the pilot that the company is in contempt of a court order by taking him off flying duties. He has since been restored to flying duties. Ryanair denies it is in contempt.
Among orders being sought by Mr Goss in his present action are an injunction restraining the company from continuing with a purported disciplinary procedure against him and an injunction restraining it from treating him as other than as a captain employed by the airline.
Senior counsel Roddy Horan, for Mr Goss, said his client had an exemplary record with Ryanair, which he had joined in 1986. Before that he had worked with the Air Corps. In the 1990s, he was flight safety officer, a position he later voluntarily relinquished.
Counsel said the company had a well-known antipathy to trade unions and steadfastly refused to engage with the Irish Airline Pilots' Association, which was a branch of the Impact trade union that represented commercial pilots in Aer Lingus and CityJet.
In his statement of claim Mr Goss said that in 1988/1989 he joined a trade union which had not been recognised by the company. He and his colleagues were asked by Ryanair to attend a meeting on November 4th last.
At the meeting, it was claimed, they were threatened that if union activities did not cease, they would be excluded from any pay increase, access to the company's share option scheme, promotion, staff travel privileges and loss of licence insurance. They would also be required to pay for training and retraining.
On November 12th last, Mr Goss claims, he and other pilots, who had been asked to attend the meeting, received a letter from Ryanair offering a place on a conversion training course for a new aircraft. However, they would be required to pay back €15,000 in training costs to the company if they left within five years or if the company was "compelled to engage in collective bargaining with any pilot or trade union".
By letter on December 10th last, the company purported to commence an investigation into allegations against Mr Goss that he made threatening and intimidating phone calls in an attempt to persuade pilots in Stansted from accepting positions on new planes to be based in Dublin, it is claimed. Those allegations were denied.
© The Irish Times
There has also been a change in the judge hearing the case.
Shamrock 602 (from afar)
Pilot claims Ryanair initiated action against him in bad faith
Irish Times, Wednesday 1st June 2005
A senior pilot who is seeking a number of orders against Ryanair claimed in the High Court yesterday [31st May] that a disciplinary process instituted against him by the airline had been embarked upon in bad faith.
The action, by pilot John Goss (51), Malahide, Co Dublin, against Ryanair began yesterday before Mr Justice Declan Budd and is expected to last several days.
Over the past two months, the court has heard a number of related issues between the sides, including a claim by the pilot that the company is in contempt of a court order by taking him off flying duties. He has since been restored to flying duties. Ryanair denies it is in contempt.
Among orders being sought by Mr Goss in his present action are an injunction restraining the company from continuing with a purported disciplinary procedure against him and an injunction restraining it from treating him as other than as a captain employed by the airline.
Senior counsel Roddy Horan, for Mr Goss, said his client had an exemplary record with Ryanair, which he had joined in 1986. Before that he had worked with the Air Corps. In the 1990s, he was flight safety officer, a position he later voluntarily relinquished.
Counsel said the company had a well-known antipathy to trade unions and steadfastly refused to engage with the Irish Airline Pilots' Association, which was a branch of the Impact trade union that represented commercial pilots in Aer Lingus and CityJet.
In his statement of claim Mr Goss said that in 1988/1989 he joined a trade union which had not been recognised by the company. He and his colleagues were asked by Ryanair to attend a meeting on November 4th last.
At the meeting, it was claimed, they were threatened that if union activities did not cease, they would be excluded from any pay increase, access to the company's share option scheme, promotion, staff travel privileges and loss of licence insurance. They would also be required to pay for training and retraining.
On November 12th last, Mr Goss claims, he and other pilots, who had been asked to attend the meeting, received a letter from Ryanair offering a place on a conversion training course for a new aircraft. However, they would be required to pay back €15,000 in training costs to the company if they left within five years or if the company was "compelled to engage in collective bargaining with any pilot or trade union".
By letter on December 10th last, the company purported to commence an investigation into allegations against Mr Goss that he made threatening and intimidating phone calls in an attempt to persuade pilots in Stansted from accepting positions on new planes to be based in Dublin, it is claimed. Those allegations were denied.
© The Irish Times
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Days two and three in court
Belatedly, here are some reports of days two and three in the High Court last week, in the Capt Goss v Ryanair et al case.
Apologies for the long posting: when I first posted these reports separately, they were automatically combined into one message by the system, with junk characters added for good measure. The Irish Times website from which the reports have been borrowed is password-protected.
The hearing is due to resume today (Tuesday 7th June)
Shamrock 602
Goss says Ryanair's decision to suspend him was a vindictive act
Irish Times, Thursday 2nd June 2005
Ryanair pilot John Goss told the High Court yesterday [Wed 1st June] that the airline's decision to suspend him from flying was "a vindictive act" in light of there being overwhelming evidence that he was fit to fly.
Roddy Horan SC, for Mr Goss, said Ryanair had breached his client's constitutional rights to natural justice and had acted in breach of legislation dealing with disciplinary procedures.
Ryanair's complaints about Mr Goss were never really clear, counsel said. The company had made serious allegations in a letter to Mr Goss of December 10th, 2004 from David O'Brien, the company's director of flight and ground operations.
This alleged that Mr Goss had intimidated pilots at Stansted airport but did not give the names of any of these pilots or the nature of the complaints.
The letter stated that Ryanair had received a" number of complaints from pilots based at Stansted alleging that you have made telephone calls warning pilots not to accept positions on the new 737-800 aircraft based here in Dublin".
Counsel said solicitors acting for Capt Goss never got any answer from Ryanair when it was asked to confirm that those pilots alleged to have made complaints would be in attendance at a meeting between the company's representatives and Mr Goss on February 16th, 2005.
Fundamental information about the nature of the complaints were never furnished.
If Ryanair was correct, then the complaints were either in writing or someone in Ryanair management took a note of them, Mr Horan said.
Mr Goss's solicitor had sought such information.
Mr Horan said a subsequent letter of January 28th this year saw a shifting of ground by Ryanair.
It had sought to elevate claims that there had been evasion and lack of co-operation on the part of Mr Goss.
An employer had to act reasonably and in good faith towards an employee, even in the context of disciplinary proceedings, and in Mr Goss's case the good faith requirement was singularly lacking.
Counsel contended that Ryanair's entire disciplinary process as initiated in the letter of December 10th, 2004 arose because Mr Goss had complained of victimisation to the Labour Relations Commission.
The December 10th letter was despatched by the company to counter the emergence of IALPA (Irish Airline Pilots' Association which is affiliated to the trade union, IMPACT), he said.
IALPA had written a letter on November 3th, 2004 which raised with the company issues of concern to pilots.
There was a categorical rejection of that request by Ryanair's chief executive, Mr Michael O'Leary. In reply to Mr Justice Budd, Mr Horan agreed there was no constitutional requirement for an employer in Ireland to negotiate with a trade union.
Mr Horan said the letter of December 10th had been a reaction by Ryanair to Mr Goss's querying of a letter from the company imposing a €15,000 training levy on pilots.
The letter of December 10th made extraordinarily serious charges and yet failed to provide any detail.
The company denies these claims in its defence. Ryanair states it did not threaten Mr Goss or wrongly accuse him of having failed to co-operate with a company inquiry into the Standsted complaints.
The company also denies Mr Goss's allegations that it acted negligently or in breach of its duties; denies that it sought to make an example of Mr Goss.
It denies it is in breach of contract or that it inflicted emotional suffering on Mr Goss.
The decision of the chief pilot to refuse to permit Mr Goss to return to flying duties was not taken on an improper basis.
The hearing before Mr Justice Declan Budd continues today.
© The Irish Times
Day three...
Ryanair intimidated pilots in training row, court told
Irish Times, Friday 3rd June 2005
Ryanair told its pilots that if it was forced to negotiate with a pilots' trade union within five years of the pilots undergoing a training course, the pilots would have to pay the costs of their training, the High Court heard yesterday [Thursday 2nd June]. The pilots also believed Ryanair had made an "open threat" of possible redundancy.
Capt John Goss, a senior pilot with the airline, said the offer by Ryanair in November 2004 to place pilots on a conversion training course for the Boeing 737-800 was regarded by senior pilots as punitive. The pilots believed they were being bullied and intimidated.
Capt Goss said the Dublin pilots were briefed by Ryanair management on November 4th last that the company had to make harsh decisions because of trading conditions.
The company had said the amount of money it was making per aircraft seat was down and that pilots should be grateful that they had employment, he said. The pilots voiced their anger at the way they were being treated.
David O'Brien, the director of flight and ground operations, had indicated an austerity situation and said the company was making certain changes in order to save the airline and preserve employment.
In proceedings before Mr Justice Budd, Capt Goss of Malahide, Co Dublin, claims Ryanair made serious allegations against him in a letter on December 10th, 2004, which stated he had intimidated other pilots at Stansted airport, warning them not to accept positions on the company's new aircraft, the Boeing 737-800, based in Dublin.
He claims the company alleged he failed to co-operate and it had initiated disciplinary proceedings against him.
In evidence yesterday, Capt Goss denied that he made threatening or intimidating telephone calls to pilots at Stansted or that he had warned pilots not to accept positions on the new aircraft to be based in Dublin. He was horrified at the allegations.
Capt Goss said that on April 1st, 2004, Dublin pilots received a document stating the company would not pay for pilots' medical examinations in the Mater Private Hospital (which they undergo every six months or annually to show they are fit to continue flying). The medical fee varied between €200 and €300.
The company had also reduced pilots' pension coverage by effectively putting less money into the pension fund. It almost halved the insurance cover (from €190,000 to €100,000) which a pilot might receive if he lost his flying licence for medical reasons. The company also outlined that the "loss-of-licence-insurance scheme" would terminate on March 31st, 2006 and that, from that date, it would be up to pilots to insure themselves.
Capt Goss said the airline management portrayed a difficult period ahead and difficult choices. Pilots voiced their abhorrence towards the way the company was making the changes with no attempt to hold discussions with the pilots.
Ryanair also wanted to brief pilots about the introduction of the Boeing 737-800 to Dublin. The airline said that initially it would be training four senior pilots. Staff were informed that if the company was forced into dealing with the pilots' association/union (Irish Airline Pilots' Association or IALPA), the pilots would be forced to pay for their training and that annual leave would only be given in "blocks of five days" - basically one week at a time.
The change also meant the pilots were "bonded" for five years following the training. This meant that, if they left within five years, they would have to pay €15,000 to the company. The pilots were also required to pay for their own accommodation while attending the training centre at East Midlands.
At a November 12th, 2004 meeting with management, the pilots received a letter stating: "It has been Ryanair policy - for so long as our people deal directly with the company - that pay will be better, pay increases higher and training costs shall be met by the company. We wish to remind you that should this policy be altered and Ryanair be compelled to engage in collective bargaining with any pilot association or trade union within five years of commencement of your conversion training, then you will be liable to repay the full training costs."
There was also the suggestion of possible redundancy when the "200" Boeing (the old aircraft) was withdrawn from service in Dublin. The eight senior pilots (including Capt Goss) who met management on November 12th, 2004 felt this was an "open threat" and an appalling approach to senior persons in the company. This was not negotiation but a take-it-or-leave-it situation. The eight staff got seven days to make up their minds.
In the meantime, the president of the IALPA wrote to the Labour Relations Commission formally complaining of victimisation of the eight pilots by the company.
"We regarded ourselves as being bullied and intimidated," he said. He had no difficulty moving to the new aircraft but opposed the company introducing punitive contracts.
Capt Goss said all the staff in Ryanair had worked hard to contribute to the airline, which was making reasonable profits to say the least. Why the company would cause hardship or operate to the detriment of staff was beyond him.
He said there had also been an issue about the maximum number of hours a pilot was allowed to fly in a given year. Ryanair had sought changes in how flight time was calculated.
After he had raised the issue on November 15th, 2004, he got a letter from Capt Shane McKeon, the deputy chief pilot, on November 16th, 2004, stating that Capt McKeon understood that Capt Goss had indicated he would not complete assigned duties.
Capt Goss said he regarded this letter as intimidatory and expressed his displeasure to Capt McKeon.
He had never indicated he would not work.
The hearing before Mr Justice Budd continues today.
© The Irish Times
Day four...
Day Four
Ryanair and pilot are advised by judge to settle outside of court
Irish Times, Saturday 4th June 2005
The High Court judge hearing an action brought against Ryanair by one of its senior pilots has suggested both sides examine the possibility of settling their dispute outside the court.
Mr Justice Budd suggested at the end of Capt John Goss\'s direct evidence yesterday [Friday 3rd June] that there was "a small opening for people to steady themselves and take a look at their long-term best interests" before cross-examination of the pilot begins next Tuesday.
He said that if it was going to be left to him to decide the dispute, it could have a serious effect on people\'s lives and their business. That would apply to both sides, he said.
If there was any basis for discussions which might lead to an outcome benefiting both sides, he urged they take such an opportunity because "airlines need pilots and pilots need airlines".
Capt Goss, of Malahide, Co Dublin, claims Ryanair made serious and unfounded allegations against him in a letter of December 10th, 2004 to the effect that he intimidated other pilots at Stansted airport, warning them not to accept positions on the company\'s new aircraft, the Boeing 737-800, based in Dublin.
He claimed the company alleged he failed to co-operate and then initiated disciplinary proceedings against him. He also alleged the company, without notice, suspended him from duty and that he was reinstated following other High Court proceedings.
The company denies the captain\'s claims.
Capt Goss, in evidence yesterday on the fourth day of the hearing, said that at a meeting on December 23th, 2004, an issue about the Ryanair European Pilots Association (REPA) web site was introduced by the management representatives.
He declined to view documents produced by the company as he believed the subject of REPA was outside the remit of the meeting. He believed the meeting was held to discuss telephone calls he was supposed to have made to intimidate pilots at Stansted.
David O\'Brien, the director of flight and ground operations, asked if persons had telephoned Capt Goss and he had replied he did not make any phone call or intimidate anybody.
Capt Goss said that, during the summer of 2001, he attended a company investigation, at which Ryanair chief executive Michael O\'Leary was present. It concerned a colleague, Capt Martin Duffy, who was later dismissed. The investigation followed an allegation that Capt Duffy refused to travel on a "jump seat" on a flight from Dublin to Stansted.
Capt Duffy had been elected chairman of the Ryanair pilots\' group in early 2001.
Capt Goss said there had been a number of similarities in the situations which arose in relation to Capt Duffy and himself. They both had been invited to company investigations and, in both cases, no evidence was preferred by the company.
He was shocked by a letter he received from Mr O\'Brien on December 10th, 2004, alleging intimidation of pilots at Stansted, and he consulted lawyers.
He attended a meeting with management on January 10th, 2005, following receipt of a letter which stated it was felt he had not been "fully open" at a December 23th meeting. The letter stated that, should he refuse to answer reasonable questions, this could lead to disciplinary proceedings for non-co-operation.
Capt Goss said he advised that he had received four telephone calls from one pilot, Capt Gale, the first in mid-to-late November 2004, when Capt Gale said he had received an offer of a position in Dublin operating the Boeing 737-800. He told Capt Gale he could not advise on whether to accept or reject the offer. Capt Gale phoned at a later date to say he had accepted the offer.
Capt Goss said the company was suggesting intimidation was being conducted on an organised basis. He told them on a number of occasions he had no knowledge of, and would not be involved in, any intimidation.
A letter was written to him on January 28th, 2005, but he did not receive it until February 13th/14th because he was out of the country on leave. The company would have been aware of this.
His solicitor contacted him on February 7th and advised him of the existence of the letter. It stated that the company had reviewed the contents of preliminary investigation meetings and, based on Capt Goss\'s response, had decided this matter required a disciplinary meeting.
Capt Goss said he had no idea from that letter what charges were being levied against him. This was the first information he had received since the January 10th meeting. He had considered the matter as having been dealt with.
The hearing was adjourned to next Tuesday [7th June].
Apologies for the long posting: when I first posted these reports separately, they were automatically combined into one message by the system, with junk characters added for good measure. The Irish Times website from which the reports have been borrowed is password-protected.
The hearing is due to resume today (Tuesday 7th June)
Shamrock 602
Goss says Ryanair's decision to suspend him was a vindictive act
Irish Times, Thursday 2nd June 2005
Ryanair pilot John Goss told the High Court yesterday [Wed 1st June] that the airline's decision to suspend him from flying was "a vindictive act" in light of there being overwhelming evidence that he was fit to fly.
Roddy Horan SC, for Mr Goss, said Ryanair had breached his client's constitutional rights to natural justice and had acted in breach of legislation dealing with disciplinary procedures.
Ryanair's complaints about Mr Goss were never really clear, counsel said. The company had made serious allegations in a letter to Mr Goss of December 10th, 2004 from David O'Brien, the company's director of flight and ground operations.
This alleged that Mr Goss had intimidated pilots at Stansted airport but did not give the names of any of these pilots or the nature of the complaints.
The letter stated that Ryanair had received a" number of complaints from pilots based at Stansted alleging that you have made telephone calls warning pilots not to accept positions on the new 737-800 aircraft based here in Dublin".
Counsel said solicitors acting for Capt Goss never got any answer from Ryanair when it was asked to confirm that those pilots alleged to have made complaints would be in attendance at a meeting between the company's representatives and Mr Goss on February 16th, 2005.
Fundamental information about the nature of the complaints were never furnished.
If Ryanair was correct, then the complaints were either in writing or someone in Ryanair management took a note of them, Mr Horan said.
Mr Goss's solicitor had sought such information.
Mr Horan said a subsequent letter of January 28th this year saw a shifting of ground by Ryanair.
It had sought to elevate claims that there had been evasion and lack of co-operation on the part of Mr Goss.
An employer had to act reasonably and in good faith towards an employee, even in the context of disciplinary proceedings, and in Mr Goss's case the good faith requirement was singularly lacking.
Counsel contended that Ryanair's entire disciplinary process as initiated in the letter of December 10th, 2004 arose because Mr Goss had complained of victimisation to the Labour Relations Commission.
The December 10th letter was despatched by the company to counter the emergence of IALPA (Irish Airline Pilots' Association which is affiliated to the trade union, IMPACT), he said.
IALPA had written a letter on November 3th, 2004 which raised with the company issues of concern to pilots.
There was a categorical rejection of that request by Ryanair's chief executive, Mr Michael O'Leary. In reply to Mr Justice Budd, Mr Horan agreed there was no constitutional requirement for an employer in Ireland to negotiate with a trade union.
Mr Horan said the letter of December 10th had been a reaction by Ryanair to Mr Goss's querying of a letter from the company imposing a €15,000 training levy on pilots.
The letter of December 10th made extraordinarily serious charges and yet failed to provide any detail.
The company denies these claims in its defence. Ryanair states it did not threaten Mr Goss or wrongly accuse him of having failed to co-operate with a company inquiry into the Standsted complaints.
The company also denies Mr Goss's allegations that it acted negligently or in breach of its duties; denies that it sought to make an example of Mr Goss.
It denies it is in breach of contract or that it inflicted emotional suffering on Mr Goss.
The decision of the chief pilot to refuse to permit Mr Goss to return to flying duties was not taken on an improper basis.
The hearing before Mr Justice Declan Budd continues today.
© The Irish Times
Day three...
Ryanair intimidated pilots in training row, court told
Irish Times, Friday 3rd June 2005
Ryanair told its pilots that if it was forced to negotiate with a pilots' trade union within five years of the pilots undergoing a training course, the pilots would have to pay the costs of their training, the High Court heard yesterday [Thursday 2nd June]. The pilots also believed Ryanair had made an "open threat" of possible redundancy.
Capt John Goss, a senior pilot with the airline, said the offer by Ryanair in November 2004 to place pilots on a conversion training course for the Boeing 737-800 was regarded by senior pilots as punitive. The pilots believed they were being bullied and intimidated.
Capt Goss said the Dublin pilots were briefed by Ryanair management on November 4th last that the company had to make harsh decisions because of trading conditions.
The company had said the amount of money it was making per aircraft seat was down and that pilots should be grateful that they had employment, he said. The pilots voiced their anger at the way they were being treated.
David O'Brien, the director of flight and ground operations, had indicated an austerity situation and said the company was making certain changes in order to save the airline and preserve employment.
In proceedings before Mr Justice Budd, Capt Goss of Malahide, Co Dublin, claims Ryanair made serious allegations against him in a letter on December 10th, 2004, which stated he had intimidated other pilots at Stansted airport, warning them not to accept positions on the company's new aircraft, the Boeing 737-800, based in Dublin.
He claims the company alleged he failed to co-operate and it had initiated disciplinary proceedings against him.
In evidence yesterday, Capt Goss denied that he made threatening or intimidating telephone calls to pilots at Stansted or that he had warned pilots not to accept positions on the new aircraft to be based in Dublin. He was horrified at the allegations.
Capt Goss said that on April 1st, 2004, Dublin pilots received a document stating the company would not pay for pilots' medical examinations in the Mater Private Hospital (which they undergo every six months or annually to show they are fit to continue flying). The medical fee varied between €200 and €300.
The company had also reduced pilots' pension coverage by effectively putting less money into the pension fund. It almost halved the insurance cover (from €190,000 to €100,000) which a pilot might receive if he lost his flying licence for medical reasons. The company also outlined that the "loss-of-licence-insurance scheme" would terminate on March 31st, 2006 and that, from that date, it would be up to pilots to insure themselves.
Capt Goss said the airline management portrayed a difficult period ahead and difficult choices. Pilots voiced their abhorrence towards the way the company was making the changes with no attempt to hold discussions with the pilots.
Ryanair also wanted to brief pilots about the introduction of the Boeing 737-800 to Dublin. The airline said that initially it would be training four senior pilots. Staff were informed that if the company was forced into dealing with the pilots' association/union (Irish Airline Pilots' Association or IALPA), the pilots would be forced to pay for their training and that annual leave would only be given in "blocks of five days" - basically one week at a time.
The change also meant the pilots were "bonded" for five years following the training. This meant that, if they left within five years, they would have to pay €15,000 to the company. The pilots were also required to pay for their own accommodation while attending the training centre at East Midlands.
At a November 12th, 2004 meeting with management, the pilots received a letter stating: "It has been Ryanair policy - for so long as our people deal directly with the company - that pay will be better, pay increases higher and training costs shall be met by the company. We wish to remind you that should this policy be altered and Ryanair be compelled to engage in collective bargaining with any pilot association or trade union within five years of commencement of your conversion training, then you will be liable to repay the full training costs."
There was also the suggestion of possible redundancy when the "200" Boeing (the old aircraft) was withdrawn from service in Dublin. The eight senior pilots (including Capt Goss) who met management on November 12th, 2004 felt this was an "open threat" and an appalling approach to senior persons in the company. This was not negotiation but a take-it-or-leave-it situation. The eight staff got seven days to make up their minds.
In the meantime, the president of the IALPA wrote to the Labour Relations Commission formally complaining of victimisation of the eight pilots by the company.
"We regarded ourselves as being bullied and intimidated," he said. He had no difficulty moving to the new aircraft but opposed the company introducing punitive contracts.
Capt Goss said all the staff in Ryanair had worked hard to contribute to the airline, which was making reasonable profits to say the least. Why the company would cause hardship or operate to the detriment of staff was beyond him.
He said there had also been an issue about the maximum number of hours a pilot was allowed to fly in a given year. Ryanair had sought changes in how flight time was calculated.
After he had raised the issue on November 15th, 2004, he got a letter from Capt Shane McKeon, the deputy chief pilot, on November 16th, 2004, stating that Capt McKeon understood that Capt Goss had indicated he would not complete assigned duties.
Capt Goss said he regarded this letter as intimidatory and expressed his displeasure to Capt McKeon.
He had never indicated he would not work.
The hearing before Mr Justice Budd continues today.
© The Irish Times
Day four...
Day Four
Ryanair and pilot are advised by judge to settle outside of court
Irish Times, Saturday 4th June 2005
The High Court judge hearing an action brought against Ryanair by one of its senior pilots has suggested both sides examine the possibility of settling their dispute outside the court.
Mr Justice Budd suggested at the end of Capt John Goss\'s direct evidence yesterday [Friday 3rd June] that there was "a small opening for people to steady themselves and take a look at their long-term best interests" before cross-examination of the pilot begins next Tuesday.
He said that if it was going to be left to him to decide the dispute, it could have a serious effect on people\'s lives and their business. That would apply to both sides, he said.
If there was any basis for discussions which might lead to an outcome benefiting both sides, he urged they take such an opportunity because "airlines need pilots and pilots need airlines".
Capt Goss, of Malahide, Co Dublin, claims Ryanair made serious and unfounded allegations against him in a letter of December 10th, 2004 to the effect that he intimidated other pilots at Stansted airport, warning them not to accept positions on the company\'s new aircraft, the Boeing 737-800, based in Dublin.
He claimed the company alleged he failed to co-operate and then initiated disciplinary proceedings against him. He also alleged the company, without notice, suspended him from duty and that he was reinstated following other High Court proceedings.
The company denies the captain\'s claims.
Capt Goss, in evidence yesterday on the fourth day of the hearing, said that at a meeting on December 23th, 2004, an issue about the Ryanair European Pilots Association (REPA) web site was introduced by the management representatives.
He declined to view documents produced by the company as he believed the subject of REPA was outside the remit of the meeting. He believed the meeting was held to discuss telephone calls he was supposed to have made to intimidate pilots at Stansted.
David O\'Brien, the director of flight and ground operations, asked if persons had telephoned Capt Goss and he had replied he did not make any phone call or intimidate anybody.
Capt Goss said that, during the summer of 2001, he attended a company investigation, at which Ryanair chief executive Michael O\'Leary was present. It concerned a colleague, Capt Martin Duffy, who was later dismissed. The investigation followed an allegation that Capt Duffy refused to travel on a "jump seat" on a flight from Dublin to Stansted.
Capt Duffy had been elected chairman of the Ryanair pilots\' group in early 2001.
Capt Goss said there had been a number of similarities in the situations which arose in relation to Capt Duffy and himself. They both had been invited to company investigations and, in both cases, no evidence was preferred by the company.
He was shocked by a letter he received from Mr O\'Brien on December 10th, 2004, alleging intimidation of pilots at Stansted, and he consulted lawyers.
He attended a meeting with management on January 10th, 2005, following receipt of a letter which stated it was felt he had not been "fully open" at a December 23th meeting. The letter stated that, should he refuse to answer reasonable questions, this could lead to disciplinary proceedings for non-co-operation.
Capt Goss said he advised that he had received four telephone calls from one pilot, Capt Gale, the first in mid-to-late November 2004, when Capt Gale said he had received an offer of a position in Dublin operating the Boeing 737-800. He told Capt Gale he could not advise on whether to accept or reject the offer. Capt Gale phoned at a later date to say he had accepted the offer.
Capt Goss said the company was suggesting intimidation was being conducted on an organised basis. He told them on a number of occasions he had no knowledge of, and would not be involved in, any intimidation.
A letter was written to him on January 28th, 2005, but he did not receive it until February 13th/14th because he was out of the country on leave. The company would have been aware of this.
His solicitor contacted him on February 7th and advised him of the existence of the letter. It stated that the company had reviewed the contents of preliminary investigation meetings and, based on Capt Goss\'s response, had decided this matter required a disciplinary meeting.
Capt Goss said he had no idea from that letter what charges were being levied against him. This was the first information he had received since the January 10th meeting. He had considered the matter as having been dealt with.
The hearing was adjourned to next Tuesday [7th June].
Last edited by Shamrock 602; 7th Jun 2005 at 07:53.
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If this matter is settled out of court then all that Captain Goss has had to put up with will be in vain. He will not have advanced the cause of Ryanair employees one iota. As the Flying Irishman says "Hang on in there."
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Still more in the courts
And then of course there are the other cases before the courts, one of which opens today.
This time it's Ryanair challenging the right of the Labour Court to make a ruling in relation to the company, under new legislation. As reported by RTE ...
Shamrock 602
This time it's Ryanair challenging the right of the Labour Court to make a ruling in relation to the company, under new legislation. As reported by RTE ...
Shamrock 602
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To any Ryanair pilots,
Can I ask how wage negotiations are carried out now and how they have been done in the past?
This is not a troll or giving you a chance to vent I am just asking for informations sake.
Cheers
BHR
p.s. I am not a journo
Can I ask how wage negotiations are carried out now and how they have been done in the past?
This is not a troll or giving you a chance to vent I am just asking for informations sake.
Cheers
BHR
p.s. I am not a journo
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O'Leary getting worried? It would seem so - he's just sold a large tranch of his shares in his beloved company:
http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0607/ryanair.html
http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0607/ryanair.html