BALPA vs TGWU
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I don't pretend to know the full structure of Balpa. I don't believe that every company should go on strike over every difference they have with management.
we could discuss the finer points ad infinitum I just have to ask you again, when compared to their American counterparts how do you think Balpa compare?
I don't pretend to know the full structure of Balpa. I don't believe that every company should go on strike over every difference they have with management.
we could discuss the finer points ad infinitum I just have to ask you again, when compared to their American counterparts how do you think Balpa compare?
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One of the biggest problems which BALPA, CCs and members, has to address is the "Im all right Jack" syndrome.
So long as there is no co-ordinated effort the union can never be strong: if BA don,t support Airtours members and bmi don,t support BY members etc what chance do we have ? The only prospect of maintaing a reasonable set of T & Cs throughout the industry is with unity. If you aren,t a BALPA member join now. Unless we stick together the cracks can be prosed apart and pilots seriously disadvantaged.
Ive seen the difference a change in personalities can make within a CC: dishounourablle individuals who sold the mates down the river to feather their own nests were replaced by people of integrity, but it takes time to undo the harm that was done.
So long as there is no co-ordinated effort the union can never be strong: if BA don,t support Airtours members and bmi don,t support BY members etc what chance do we have ? The only prospect of maintaing a reasonable set of T & Cs throughout the industry is with unity. If you aren,t a BALPA member join now. Unless we stick together the cracks can be prosed apart and pilots seriously disadvantaged.
Ive seen the difference a change in personalities can make within a CC: dishounourablle individuals who sold the mates down the river to feather their own nests were replaced by people of integrity, but it takes time to undo the harm that was done.
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Wobble-head,
I am sorry, but I have no personal experience of Alpa. What I do know is that despite sharing a common language (!), conditions in our two countries are quite different.
In the US, contracts between Unions and the Airlines are legally enforceable; in the UK, they are 'binding in honour' only.
In the US, pilots are willing to take industrial action; in the UK, they are not so willing but may do when they feel so hacked off. The strength of any Union is determined by its members, not by the full time staff. More pilots like you (you appear to be willing to 'get involved') are needed - perhaps you might be willing to get involved in your own company and attempt to change things?
I am sorry, but I have no personal experience of Alpa. What I do know is that despite sharing a common language (!), conditions in our two countries are quite different.
In the US, contracts between Unions and the Airlines are legally enforceable; in the UK, they are 'binding in honour' only.
In the US, pilots are willing to take industrial action; in the UK, they are not so willing but may do when they feel so hacked off. The strength of any Union is determined by its members, not by the full time staff. More pilots like you (you appear to be willing to 'get involved') are needed - perhaps you might be willing to get involved in your own company and attempt to change things?
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I agree that one should be prepared to get involved. I also agree that we do have a culture of I'm all right jack as as mentioned by "pauldegearup".
It's important that Balpa realise that there is an alternative to them and they may have to compete for membership.
Thanks to all those who responded
I agree that one should be prepared to get involved. I also agree that we do have a culture of I'm all right jack as as mentioned by "pauldegearup".
It's important that Balpa realise that there is an alternative to them and they may have to compete for membership.
Thanks to all those who responded
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Balpa is a pilots union. Like it or hate it, its is a union of pilots and smart pilots will be represented by pilots
In the United States we have a spectacular example of what happens to skilled labor that gets represented by unskilled labor. That example is the a&p mechanics that work on the aircraft.
In the US they thought they would get stronger if they bonded with the ramp and bag smashers. "They said look at the numbers", we will have the power. Well by and large the bag smashers are now way overpaid and the mechanics are GROSSLY underpaid. The highest paid A&Ps would be the northwest mechanics under the contract that has yet to be paid, and we are still talking about 30 dollars an hour for the most senior mechanics.
Auto mechanics make more than that and they don't need an expensive a&p License.
If you pilots throw your skilled labor in with the unskilled labor, unskilled will be most grateful, and you will lose. That is why now you are starting to see independant aircraft mechanics unions in the US.
US pilots represented by the TEAMSTERS have never done will. That is why the UPS pilots left Teamseters and formed the IPA to represent them. 30 million members with nothing in common except for whom they pay dues to provides NO strength at all.
Good luck
Wino
In the United States we have a spectacular example of what happens to skilled labor that gets represented by unskilled labor. That example is the a&p mechanics that work on the aircraft.
In the US they thought they would get stronger if they bonded with the ramp and bag smashers. "They said look at the numbers", we will have the power. Well by and large the bag smashers are now way overpaid and the mechanics are GROSSLY underpaid. The highest paid A&Ps would be the northwest mechanics under the contract that has yet to be paid, and we are still talking about 30 dollars an hour for the most senior mechanics.
Auto mechanics make more than that and they don't need an expensive a&p License.
If you pilots throw your skilled labor in with the unskilled labor, unskilled will be most grateful, and you will lose. That is why now you are starting to see independant aircraft mechanics unions in the US.
US pilots represented by the TEAMSTERS have never done will. That is why the UPS pilots left Teamseters and formed the IPA to represent them. 30 million members with nothing in common except for whom they pay dues to provides NO strength at all.
Good luck
Wino
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This skill needs to be represented by a union fit to throw the muck and not within the pockets of the management. Utopia?
As I stated earlier, pilots within the T & G need to distance themselves from a company wide pay deal, but focus on targeting a pay and benefits package that targets the key workforce, in this case the pilots.
I have no experience dealing with BALPA. I have plenty of stories and tales linking civil aviation workers with private sector management. The two do not seem to gel especially as those doing the negotiating for the employer earn less than those that are negotiating a wage rise! Jealousy always gets the better of management. Pity as they are only employed because of the success of their workforce!
Find a representative body that will shout against poor deals for staff vocally and very forcibly. Hopefully for you ‘flyers’ BALPA strongly represents you conclusively?
As I stated earlier, pilots within the T & G need to distance themselves from a company wide pay deal, but focus on targeting a pay and benefits package that targets the key workforce, in this case the pilots.
I have no experience dealing with BALPA. I have plenty of stories and tales linking civil aviation workers with private sector management. The two do not seem to gel especially as those doing the negotiating for the employer earn less than those that are negotiating a wage rise! Jealousy always gets the better of management. Pity as they are only employed because of the success of their workforce!
Find a representative body that will shout against poor deals for staff vocally and very forcibly. Hopefully for you ‘flyers’ BALPA strongly represents you conclusively?
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The BIG problem at the moment is that, we as, pilots are our own worst enemies. Look after number one and sod the rest! That type of attitude isn't going to get us the required payrises, or recognition we deserve!
Until such time, as Pauldegearup says, that we as pilots stick together we are wasting our time and money!
Just because we love the job we do, doesn't mean we should bend over and spread our legs for the management!
Until such time, as Pauldegearup says, that we as pilots stick together we are wasting our time and money!
Just because we love the job we do, doesn't mean we should bend over and spread our legs for the management!
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Wino,
Nice to agree with you for a change. Absolutely. TGWU might be cheap, but if BALPA is weakened by an exodus to a union which has no concept of aviation then we are doomed.
You get what you pay for.
Might as well take your shiny new Porsche to The Arches and let Phil Mitchell service it!
Nice to agree with you for a change. Absolutely. TGWU might be cheap, but if BALPA is weakened by an exodus to a union which has no concept of aviation then we are doomed.
You get what you pay for.
Might as well take your shiny new Porsche to The Arches and let Phil Mitchell service it!
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Well said snooky, what chance do we have at the negotiating table when the BALPA log editorial is saying we get loads of time off and get paid plenty of money! Having read the article it doesn't give me much confidence about any forthcoming pay negotiations. Are BALPA really in touch with their members feelings?
cheers zzz
cheers zzz
