Don't ever pay to apply for Rayanair!
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But of course looking at it in another way.The purchase of Ryanair shares would do no harm,since basically they ride everybody who works for them,including service providers.
Then the ultra low cost ethos can only be good for people who have nothing to do with the airline business, other than the purchase of a few shares,taking a profit...
In the end newly qualified kids who have committed themselves to enormous financial burdens contribute to the gains of investors.
Ultimately, O'Leary has no shortage in finding willing volunteers to fund his training department.So in essence ,despite the fact that collectively we whinge and moan about the exploitation we witness....Surely we must ask ourselves what contribution we have made to undermining ourselves as a profession...TR3
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: TR3 ]
Then the ultra low cost ethos can only be good for people who have nothing to do with the airline business, other than the purchase of a few shares,taking a profit...
In the end newly qualified kids who have committed themselves to enormous financial burdens contribute to the gains of investors.
Ultimately, O'Leary has no shortage in finding willing volunteers to fund his training department.So in essence ,despite the fact that collectively we whinge and moan about the exploitation we witness....Surely we must ask ourselves what contribution we have made to undermining ourselves as a profession...TR3
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: TR3 ]
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Well said Shakespear.
I hope that those considering accepting these degrading conditions understand what they are doing to the pilot community at large. Moreover I hope they do not expect BALPA recognition with respect to improving pay and conditions!
I hope that those considering accepting these degrading conditions understand what they are doing to the pilot community at large. Moreover I hope they do not expect BALPA recognition with respect to improving pay and conditions!
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I see in todays Sunday Tribune front page that O'Leary has now cancelled Christmas! The staff of Europes most valuable airline have been to told to take a hike on the Christmas party this year. Belt tightening is the excuse, and he actually had the gall to add that it 'wouldn't look right to be celebrating at a time like this'! Bwahahaha!!
Guvnor you refer to FRs taxi speeds as their only slightly 'unsafe working practice'. What do you know about it? You aren't a pilot! You look out the window of your office (caravan? bunker? lonely bedsit?) and you see a Ryanair 737 shoot past doing 40+ and then it's gone into the wide blue yonder. End of story.
Well that ain't the end of the story mate. I share the sky with them. There's more. And there are plenty of their own guys expressing concern on the quiet. I sincerely hope it doesn't end in tears.
As to the crews calling a halt to their own exploitation, or that of their young recruits, the day they let him sack their union rep without a whimper was the day they finally lost all respect. Not just in my eyes, and of many colleagues, but I would suggest in the eyes of O'Leary too. He probably couldn't believe his luck in getting away with that.
It's a slippery slope downward from there, and every time O'Leary sticks it to these guys in future they'll just bend over a bit more and say 'thank you Mr.O'Leary, will there be anything else?'.
Wimps.
But hey...it's a job guys. Right?
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: maxalt ]
Guvnor you refer to FRs taxi speeds as their only slightly 'unsafe working practice'. What do you know about it? You aren't a pilot! You look out the window of your office (caravan? bunker? lonely bedsit?) and you see a Ryanair 737 shoot past doing 40+ and then it's gone into the wide blue yonder. End of story.
Well that ain't the end of the story mate. I share the sky with them. There's more. And there are plenty of their own guys expressing concern on the quiet. I sincerely hope it doesn't end in tears.
As to the crews calling a halt to their own exploitation, or that of their young recruits, the day they let him sack their union rep without a whimper was the day they finally lost all respect. Not just in my eyes, and of many colleagues, but I would suggest in the eyes of O'Leary too. He probably couldn't believe his luck in getting away with that.
It's a slippery slope downward from there, and every time O'Leary sticks it to these guys in future they'll just bend over a bit more and say 'thank you Mr.O'Leary, will there be anything else?'.
Wimps.
But hey...it's a job guys. Right?
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: maxalt ]
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Having read the contract I think it is disgusting, talk about kicking people in the teeth when they are down, taking avantage of the current climate like that is just bollox!!!!!!!
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I’m a fairly low time wannabe and would never consider R-Air after seeing this contract. Even if they sorted it out I still would not work for them. Me Julie says dey is nofing but Gangsatas.
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Mermose - if they wanted pilots with only 300 hours on type, then they would have advertised for pilots with only 300 hours on type. 
You're in the wrong and you know it - go back to them when you meet their criteria of 500 hours!
I suspect you'll find that the minimum experience criteria is dictated by their insurers - you just have to look at the recent Crossair RJ crash to see why.
Picked this up from a thread over on Terms and Endearment on Ryanair pay, from Honest Joe:
Looks pretty reasonable to me! 
You're in the wrong and you know it - go back to them when you meet their criteria of 500 hours! I suspect you'll find that the minimum experience criteria is dictated by their insurers - you just have to look at the recent Crossair RJ crash to see why.
Picked this up from a thread over on Terms and Endearment on Ryanair pay, from Honest Joe:
I’ve covered this before on another tread ‘To Ryanair Pilots’, but the facts are these. Existing First Officers get approx £2,000 Net sector pay per month depending on hours flown, on-top on a basic of £26,000. All this delivers approx £3,600 take home per month. Factor in other benefits such as
– Fixed roster of 5 on 3 off 5 on 3 off (UK)
– Loss of licence cover £IR 150,000
– Share Option Scheme
– Pension scheme 5 % defined contribution
– Many of our co pilots are promoted in to the left hand seat within 3 years
– 5 year agreement with increases of 3% per annum for the next 4 years
– One of the few airlines to take delivery of new aircraft and not to make any of our people redundant
– Fixed roster of 5 on 3 off 5 on 3 off (UK)
– Loss of licence cover £IR 150,000
– Share Option Scheme
– Pension scheme 5 % defined contribution
– Many of our co pilots are promoted in to the left hand seat within 3 years
– 5 year agreement with increases of 3% per annum for the next 4 years
– One of the few airlines to take delivery of new aircraft and not to make any of our people redundant
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Guvnor
I have no axe to grind with you but I must ask what OzDude asked earlier and you predictably didn't answer. What are your management credentials and what is your flying experience? There is no hidden agenda to these questions I'm just curious. If you are genuine surely you can answer without being as evasive as you have been in earlier replies.
I have no axe to grind with you but I must ask what OzDude asked earlier and you predictably didn't answer. What are your management credentials and what is your flying experience? There is no hidden agenda to these questions I'm just curious. If you are genuine surely you can answer without being as evasive as you have been in earlier replies.
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GUVNOR, your figures are totally wrong. They apply to people who joined Rayanair before 01/10/2001. You apparently never saw the “new” contract. I did, and it has nothing to do with my experience. It’s just outrageous has these bastards take advantage of the crisis that affects us all. I have absolutely no personal interest in this as I work for a much, much nicer airline that also has to face the difficult times but still RESPECT us as pilots and humans. Again, because apparently you didn’t really understood, the purpose of this thread is to warn the colleagues who are facing difficult times about what they will find after paying their application: a really disgraceful “contract” made by people without any scruples. In other words, bastards. And there are much more people in my side than yours, read the posts…
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Well, you can say what you want, but which airline gives low-hour guys like me a chance to fly jets?
OK, the contract isnt great, but I havent much to offer, experience-wise.
So after a few years, I will be able to join another airline with a better contract, or become a Captain with Ryanair, if they would hire me...
Get what you can, especially in these times...
OK, the contract isnt great, but I havent much to offer, experience-wise.
So after a few years, I will be able to join another airline with a better contract, or become a Captain with Ryanair, if they would hire me...
Get what you can, especially in these times...
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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While I’m on my soapbox here, I’d like to add some thoughts to the general theme of this thread.
Most pilot youngsters I know, given the choice between an evening with Pam Anderson and the chance of strapping on a bigger faster flying machine, would be immediately thrown into paroxysms of anguished indecision. (Our lady pilot colleagues are presented with a different set of problems, but no doubt equally and inscrutably as daunting. Unfortunately I have no data on the subject, input most welcome.) I myself freely admit, even in my advanced state of decrepitude, that this is a dire command decision for which no checklist has been, nor ever will be written. Such, however, is the nature of the beast.
The passion and dedication to the profession of any pilot worth his/her salt is such that we would rather accept degrading pay than be forced into a less desirable line of work. The personnel people know this, certainly at Ryanair, and use it to their own profit-oriented ends. Despite this unfortunate and temporary circumstance my friends, we remain endowed with a drive and energy displayed by very few other professional groups. We have a hard-earned claim to honor, our fallen comrades are eloquent testimony to this, our right to appropriate compensation is well justified.
I have always held a grudging admiration for the Asian cultures, most of which have been in existence for many thousands of years more than our own. As a necessary and logical adjunct of this accumulated cultural experience, they appear to have acquired a disturbingly profound knowledge of human nature. The personnel managers who devise and implement the bonding policies of certain carriers there, are in my view, the undisputed masters of that most arcane and blackest of arts, the subversion of human desire.
In a very real and historical sense, we in the West have taught those in the East the art of flying, they now return the favor by imparting to us some of the darker mysteries of the human heart.
Most pilot youngsters I know, given the choice between an evening with Pam Anderson and the chance of strapping on a bigger faster flying machine, would be immediately thrown into paroxysms of anguished indecision. (Our lady pilot colleagues are presented with a different set of problems, but no doubt equally and inscrutably as daunting. Unfortunately I have no data on the subject, input most welcome.) I myself freely admit, even in my advanced state of decrepitude, that this is a dire command decision for which no checklist has been, nor ever will be written. Such, however, is the nature of the beast.
The passion and dedication to the profession of any pilot worth his/her salt is such that we would rather accept degrading pay than be forced into a less desirable line of work. The personnel people know this, certainly at Ryanair, and use it to their own profit-oriented ends. Despite this unfortunate and temporary circumstance my friends, we remain endowed with a drive and energy displayed by very few other professional groups. We have a hard-earned claim to honor, our fallen comrades are eloquent testimony to this, our right to appropriate compensation is well justified.
I have always held a grudging admiration for the Asian cultures, most of which have been in existence for many thousands of years more than our own. As a necessary and logical adjunct of this accumulated cultural experience, they appear to have acquired a disturbingly profound knowledge of human nature. The personnel managers who devise and implement the bonding policies of certain carriers there, are in my view, the undisputed masters of that most arcane and blackest of arts, the subversion of human desire.
In a very real and historical sense, we in the West have taught those in the East the art of flying, they now return the favor by imparting to us some of the darker mysteries of the human heart.
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Maxalt, saw the item on MoL headlined SCROOGE over his cancellation of the Ryanair Christmas party. What is interesting is that the item should have made it on to the front page of the Sunday Tribune, and even more interesting, it was penned by the editor himself , who has been pushing MoL for sainthood over the years.Has the worm turned ? Has the media finally had enough, is the honeymoon over? (sorry! an inappropriate choice of phrase)can't they take any more of the deceptions ,the sleight of hand,the half truths,the downright lies ,the wild claims, the constant verbal abuse, the demeaning advertisements, the toilet humour etc. etc. You rem that old saying ..You can fool some of the people some of the time,....some of the people all of the time ,..all of the people some of time ,... but you can't fool all of the people all of the time!!. seems appropriate.
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bugg smasher, there's little on the subject of chicanery that the 'East' can teach a cute hoor from Mullingar, let me tell you.
sgt.culpepper, he's probably decided to cut the advertising budget and it's upset the marketing dollys in the Tribune.
Who says the truth ain't for sale.
It's predictable enough. His costs rose as fast as his revenues last year. Maybe he's losing his edge.
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: maxalt ]
sgt.culpepper, he's probably decided to cut the advertising budget and it's upset the marketing dollys in the Tribune.
Who says the truth ain't for sale.
It's predictable enough. His costs rose as fast as his revenues last year. Maybe he's losing his edge.
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: maxalt ]
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Is that contract that RyanAir expect us to pay £50.00 to apply for? How stupid do they think pilots are? Or anybody for that matter.
Now you can see how they make their money, and it's not from 'bums on seats luv'.
And Gov, can you tell us who you are so that we don't waste our time and money applying to you for a job when you get your airline of the ground because we are getting a flavour of what your contract would be like, and what you would be like to work for.
Now where's the let's slag the Gov thread?
Now you can see how they make their money, and it's not from 'bums on seats luv'.
And Gov, can you tell us who you are so that we don't waste our time and money applying to you for a job when you get your airline of the ground because we are getting a flavour of what your contract would be like, and what you would be like to work for.
Now where's the let's slag the Gov thread?
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Gentlemen, and especially Guvnor,
Here are the facts:
F/O pay: 18000 Irish pounds/year
3000 paying applications received
They OWN their sims
And they push it so far that they mention your salary in Irish Pounds, but what you have to pay is mentioned in British pounds!!!
So, bastards or not? My answer is definitely YES. And believe me, I might be the low hours F/O that Guvnor is claiming about, but I can see clear in this, and I will need to be taken for a long time in the dirt before I can accept such conditions.
Here are the facts:
F/O pay: 18000 Irish pounds/year
3000 paying applications received
They OWN their sims
And they push it so far that they mention your salary in Irish Pounds, but what you have to pay is mentioned in British pounds!!!
So, bastards or not? My answer is definitely YES. And believe me, I might be the low hours F/O that Guvnor is claiming about, but I can see clear in this, and I will need to be taken for a long time in the dirt before I can accept such conditions.
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As I've posted earlyer in some other treats:
It is about time we stop complaining about this meaningless airliner. They are the mob of the airline industry.
- Asking money for viewing your resumé is one illegal and two a very bad example for other companies.
- Flying from a Belgian base, and not having a single Belgian pilot, is just arogant.
- Using the Belgian goverment support money to give away free tickets. Is just f***ing the Belgian people.
- and so on.
I hope we can drop the topic Ryanair for now. And start posting again when one of there planes come down because they are saving on fuel.
It is about time we stop complaining about this meaningless airliner. They are the mob of the airline industry.
- Asking money for viewing your resumé is one illegal and two a very bad example for other companies.
- Flying from a Belgian base, and not having a single Belgian pilot, is just arogant.
- Using the Belgian goverment support money to give away free tickets. Is just f***ing the Belgian people.
- and so on.
I hope we can drop the topic Ryanair for now. And start posting again when one of there planes come down because they are saving on fuel.
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Nobody, except their wife and children starving or about to, and the worse part is that they don't know the terms and conditions they are applying for. That's why it's good to let them know...