Challenge-can anyone provide a worse roster?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Twyford, UK
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Yeah, well... Juliet may or may not enjoy better quality time off as has been suggested, but how many of you have got to put up with being shot at and had missiles launched at them in the meantime.
When the Boss says fly, you don't quote CAR's at him....do you.??
When the Boss says fly, you don't quote CAR's at him....do you.??
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Cheshire, UK
Age: 56
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Try working 5 nights from 10PM to 8AM nursing the reservation system for a particular airline.
Calls through the night from Flight Crew Briefing, garbled telexes from a certain airline in Jamaca. Fixing passenger records together, because sometimes the system screws up.
We do not always sleep my dear friend. Others stay up all night, working to ensure that you have a day off on your crew roster, and that Nigel has enough fuel.
Sadly as sometimes you are, the forgotten part of an airline.
Calls through the night from Flight Crew Briefing, garbled telexes from a certain airline in Jamaca. Fixing passenger records together, because sometimes the system screws up.
We do not always sleep my dear friend. Others stay up all night, working to ensure that you have a day off on your crew roster, and that Nigel has enough fuel.
Sadly as sometimes you are, the forgotten part of an airline.
As a Canadian firebombing pilot during the middle of the 2003 BC
fire season
41 days on red alert ( 5 min from dispatch to wheels roll)
with no days off, including flying 182 hrs in 291 flights. One 3 day period included 24.7 flight hrs and 41 flights. This was legal as Transport Canada waived the 3 days off in 30 and 6 days off in 60 duty limit ( with a 8 flight hr and 12 hr duty day limit after day 30). The problem was not enough pilots and a fire season that would not slow down. We finally got 5 days off on day 42 but it didn't matter as I was going to ground myself any way.
The good news is firebombing pilots get the whole winter off
fire season
41 days on red alert ( 5 min from dispatch to wheels roll)
with no days off, including flying 182 hrs in 291 flights. One 3 day period included 24.7 flight hrs and 41 flights. This was legal as Transport Canada waived the 3 days off in 30 and 6 days off in 60 duty limit ( with a 8 flight hr and 12 hr duty day limit after day 30). The problem was not enough pilots and a fire season that would not slow down. We finally got 5 days off on day 42 but it didn't matter as I was going to ground myself any way.
The good news is firebombing pilots get the whole winter off
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
That's great guys, but you and I both know that being on "call/red alert" doesn't preclude you from sleeping when you want to sleep, does it?!
Sure it limits the radius that you can travel from your home - but it doesn't tie you down completely.
Being locked into a tin capsule, travelling at several hundred miles per hour, several (tens of) thousands of feet...or several miles up, if you prefer......where the O2 level is less than down at S.L., sort of DEMANDS one's attention - if only to monitor that nothing goes wrong..goes wrong...goes wrong.
Lying in bed/dozing at a desk waiting for the 'phone to ring can cause one to snap precariously into reality - but fortunately reality will WAIT for you to adjust to IT, even if you do get a kick in the butt for being a bit slow.
Pilots at work do NOT have that luxury!
Sure it limits the radius that you can travel from your home - but it doesn't tie you down completely.
Being locked into a tin capsule, travelling at several hundred miles per hour, several (tens of) thousands of feet...or several miles up, if you prefer......where the O2 level is less than down at S.L., sort of DEMANDS one's attention - if only to monitor that nothing goes wrong..goes wrong...goes wrong.
Lying in bed/dozing at a desk waiting for the 'phone to ring can cause one to snap precariously into reality - but fortunately reality will WAIT for you to adjust to IT, even if you do get a kick in the butt for being a bit slow.
Pilots at work do NOT have that luxury!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Well to be precise, 411A, he would have applied for employment with the company, subject to the terms and conditions of the contract of employment, and the prevailing laws of the land.
Some pilots may choose to prostitute themselves - by flying unairworthy aircraft, eg. aircraft that other pilots refuse to fly due to known, serious defects..such as engines that are incapable of producing a KNOWN amount of thrust on take-off - whilst others follow the limits placed on them by their employer and/or the regulating authority.
Pilots who KNOWINGLY and WILFULLY bust regs - be they company or state - deserve NO sympathy, in my opinion.
They're a danger to themselves, AND the pax and aircraft that have been entrusted to their care - and not least of all, to their EMPLOYER.
Some pilots may choose to prostitute themselves - by flying unairworthy aircraft, eg. aircraft that other pilots refuse to fly due to known, serious defects..such as engines that are incapable of producing a KNOWN amount of thrust on take-off - whilst others follow the limits placed on them by their employer and/or the regulating authority.
Pilots who KNOWINGLY and WILFULLY bust regs - be they company or state - deserve NO sympathy, in my opinion.
They're a danger to themselves, AND the pax and aircraft that have been entrusted to their care - and not least of all, to their EMPLOYER.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tea green International
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down to earth reply
thanks speed freek:
It is always greener on other side.....but we do forget our friends who made a heavy landing and not yet back in the air. Good Luck. Bumz.
It is always greener on other side.....but we do forget our friends who made a heavy landing and not yet back in the air. Good Luck. Bumz.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Queensland
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Royal Air Moroc 1989: 12 hours on, 7 hours off. Repeat for 6 days then 1 day off. The 12 hours started from brakes release until engines shutdown. The rest period was all time that was not duty. Typical flight into Africa needed 15 minutes minimum to secure the aircraft followed by 45 minute transport to hotel. Next morning, 15 minutes to get out of bed, into uniform and depart hotel for another 45 minute trip to airport. Arrive at aircraft 45 minutes before engine start for another 12 hour duty. Bed rest therefore maximum 4 hours. Locals considered this to be OK.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Spain
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"but we do forget our friends who made a heavy landing"
Very true, but what you are all forgetting is the guys who make sure your Ac are fit to fly.... Whilst it varies from company to company I know I have worked the following as an Engineer:
Jul - Sep: 0600 - 2300 7 days a week (excludes breakfast and washing so you can add 1 hr to that)
10 days break at end of sept.
Oct - Jan: 0630 - 2300 7 days a week (again excludes breakfast and washing so you can add 1 hr to that) *
*I had New years day off
Whilst I wholeheartedly accept driving the thing is a far more intense workload please understand why we Engineers donīt immediately break out in applause
.
PS: Not trying to run down what a lot of you guys do, just trying to highlight there are other safety critical areas yet to receive the same attention to fatigue and it effects....
Very true, but what you are all forgetting is the guys who make sure your Ac are fit to fly.... Whilst it varies from company to company I know I have worked the following as an Engineer:
Jul - Sep: 0600 - 2300 7 days a week (excludes breakfast and washing so you can add 1 hr to that)
10 days break at end of sept.
Oct - Jan: 0630 - 2300 7 days a week (again excludes breakfast and washing so you can add 1 hr to that) *
*I had New years day off
Whilst I wholeheartedly accept driving the thing is a far more intense workload please understand why we Engineers donīt immediately break out in applause
.PS: Not trying to run down what a lot of you guys do, just trying to highlight there are other safety critical areas yet to receive the same attention to fatigue and it effects....
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Trying to stay awake in Flight Deck
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Im Tired
Day
1 SEAsia-BKK
2-3 Bkk-Fra (All night)
4-5 Fra-Bkk (then pos to Base)
6 Off
7-8 SEAsia-Bne-Akl (All night)
9 Akl-Bne
10 Off
11 Bne-SEAsia
12 Hour time zone in 7 days.
Position
1-2 SEAsia-Bkk-Shj-Fra (18+hours in A/C)
3 Off
4-5 Fra-Bkk (Pos Base)(17hours in A/C)
1 SEAsia-BKK
2-3 Bkk-Fra (night)
4-5 Fra-Bkk (then pos to Base)
6 Off
7 Off
8 do it again, and again, and again.
1-2 SEAsia-Bne-Akl (All night)
3 Akl-Bne-SEAsia
75% of flights went into discretion. Nothing changed for 6 months until new schedule came out. Where was DCA when you needed them.
Jet lag, never heard of it.
Fatigue, thats just a myth pilots give who dont want to work.
How could you not love this job
1 SEAsia-BKK
2-3 Bkk-Fra (All night)
4-5 Fra-Bkk (then pos to Base)
6 Off
7-8 SEAsia-Bne-Akl (All night)
9 Akl-Bne
10 Off
11 Bne-SEAsia
12 Hour time zone in 7 days.
Position
1-2 SEAsia-Bkk-Shj-Fra (18+hours in A/C)
3 Off
4-5 Fra-Bkk (Pos Base)(17hours in A/C)
1 SEAsia-BKK
2-3 Bkk-Fra (night)
4-5 Fra-Bkk (then pos to Base)
6 Off
7 Off
8 do it again, and again, and again.
1-2 SEAsia-Bne-Akl (All night)
3 Akl-Bne-SEAsia
75% of flights went into discretion. Nothing changed for 6 months until new schedule came out. Where was DCA when you needed them.
Jet lag, never heard of it.
Fatigue, thats just a myth pilots give who dont want to work.
How could you not love this job
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ESSEX
Age: 66
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Roster
My favourite one was a few years back at ITN. I had my roster changed 4 times for the same day. No great problem as it involved slightly different start times. It then turned out they were calling me in to do 4 different jobs at the same time! OK an admin cock up but it was the same admin guy each time!
Later he tried to call one guy in to cover his own leave! Yep X was on leave and he called the same X in to provide cover. They sacked him in the end but took several years.
Later he tried to call one guy in to cover his own leave! Yep X was on leave and he called the same X in to provide cover. They sacked him in the end but took several years.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hong Kong
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There will never be a FTL scheme that covers all eventualities, but a fair scheme is all that we flyers want... and not to be shafted by untrained rostering staff who don't have a clue about working into/through circadien lows; unreasonable 18-30 hour rest periods between trips (minimum rest would be a God send); blah, blah, blah.
For all you new guys/gals looking for jobs with a major carrier; especially in foreign parts... speak to other employees... do look at the FTL scheme before you jump and say "yes" to the job of your dreams.
I love flying; regrettably the good years have gone.
Keep on your toes. It's your licence... don't lose it!
For all you new guys/gals looking for jobs with a major carrier; especially in foreign parts... speak to other employees... do look at the FTL scheme before you jump and say "yes" to the job of your dreams.
I love flying; regrettably the good years have gone.
Keep on your toes. It's your licence... don't lose it!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Asia
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Why does this thread remind me of Monty Python? Living in a shoebox in the middle of a highway...
Surely there must be someone out there whose contract says he must hit mimself over the head with a hammer before take-off...
Don't be shy!
Surely there must be someone out there whose contract says he must hit mimself over the head with a hammer before take-off...
Don't be shy!
