BA Cabin Crew and American Visas
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US Visa requirements
Hey, can everyone lighten up just a bit? The US is new to this whole regulating everything movement. Yes, mistakes are being made, but they will be fixed over time.
A little patience would be great.
Try entering Norway if you are not white as snow. They will kick you out in a heartbeat.
A little patience would be great.
Try entering Norway if you are not white as snow. They will kick you out in a heartbeat.
Still behind the curtain
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The following is what the U.S. Embassy in London says:
On October 30, 2000, the Visa Waiver Pilot Program was made permanent when President Clinton signed into law the Visa Waiver Permanent Program Act.
Do I qualify for visa free travel?
Most visitors to the United States enter the country as tourists. With the introduction of visa free travel to citizens of 27 countries, it is now possible for many travelers, including British citizens, to enter the United States without a visa under the Visa Waiver Program (WVP). Visa free travel is also available to qualified travelers who enter the United States on business or in transit.
Citizens of the following countries: Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom may travel visa free under the VISA WAIVER PROGRAM if they meet ALL of the following requirements:
The traveler is a citizen of one of the countries named above, traveling on an unexpired national or EU passport. Passport holders from Andorra, Belgium, Brunei, Liechtenstein and Slovenia must be in possession of individual machine readable passports in order to travel visa free. For citizens of the other 22 visa free countries, including the United Kingdom, this requirement has been postponed until October 26, 2004. Read more....... A passport indicating that the bearer is a British Subject, British Dependent Territories Citizen, British Overseas Citizen, British National (Overseas) Citizen, or British Protected Person does not qualify for travel without a visa. Note: A passport which states holder has Right of Abode or indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom does not qualify for visa free travel;
Traveling for business, pleasure or transit only;
Staying in the United States for 90 days or less;
Plus, if entering the United States by air or sea is,
Holding a return or onward ticket. If traveling on an electronic ticket, a copy of the itinery must be carried for presentation to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). Note: Travelers with onward tickets terminating in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda or the Caribbean Islands must be legal permanent residents of these areas;
Entering the United States aboard an air or sea carrier that has agreed to participate in the program. This includes aircraft of a U.S. corporation that has entered into an agreement with the Immigration and Naturalization Service to carry passengers under the Visa Waiver Program. Note: other private or official aircraft or vessels do not meet this requirement; and
In possession of a completed form I-94W, obtainable from airline and shipping companies;
On October 30, 2000, the Visa Waiver Pilot Program was made permanent when President Clinton signed into law the Visa Waiver Permanent Program Act.
Do I qualify for visa free travel?
Most visitors to the United States enter the country as tourists. With the introduction of visa free travel to citizens of 27 countries, it is now possible for many travelers, including British citizens, to enter the United States without a visa under the Visa Waiver Program (WVP). Visa free travel is also available to qualified travelers who enter the United States on business or in transit.
Citizens of the following countries: Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom may travel visa free under the VISA WAIVER PROGRAM if they meet ALL of the following requirements:
The traveler is a citizen of one of the countries named above, traveling on an unexpired national or EU passport. Passport holders from Andorra, Belgium, Brunei, Liechtenstein and Slovenia must be in possession of individual machine readable passports in order to travel visa free. For citizens of the other 22 visa free countries, including the United Kingdom, this requirement has been postponed until October 26, 2004. Read more....... A passport indicating that the bearer is a British Subject, British Dependent Territories Citizen, British Overseas Citizen, British National (Overseas) Citizen, or British Protected Person does not qualify for travel without a visa. Note: A passport which states holder has Right of Abode or indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom does not qualify for visa free travel;
Traveling for business, pleasure or transit only;
Staying in the United States for 90 days or less;
Plus, if entering the United States by air or sea is,
Holding a return or onward ticket. If traveling on an electronic ticket, a copy of the itinery must be carried for presentation to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). Note: Travelers with onward tickets terminating in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda or the Caribbean Islands must be legal permanent residents of these areas;
Entering the United States aboard an air or sea carrier that has agreed to participate in the program. This includes aircraft of a U.S. corporation that has entered into an agreement with the Immigration and Naturalization Service to carry passengers under the Visa Waiver Program. Note: other private or official aircraft or vessels do not meet this requirement; and
In possession of a completed form I-94W, obtainable from airline and shipping companies;
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Careful with Visa Waiver Program, INS officer has absolute discretion, and you have no recourse. Not usually a problem, but if you encounter a sh*t-head you dont have a leg to stand on.
Think I read recently that it (VWP) will only apply to new "identity encoded" passports from some date soon.
Think I read recently that it (VWP) will only apply to new "identity encoded" passports from some date soon.
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"Havn't heard of a single crew member that has yet ever had to go to the embassy to obtain there own visa. Our crewing dept processes them in mass batches also!"
This was true until recently. My crewing department used to send batches of passports off to the embassy for us. However recently, our rosters have started to show LON-LON which means its off to the embassy for your visa renewal.
Its really sad how us crew are treated by SOME immigration officials. I too used to enjoy my Stateside trips, but too many times I've seen Immigration clear 600+ passengers through and still not cleared 11 crew members in that time. Were often the last to leave the immigration hall.
Now its banned to take a cig lighter into the States in any part of your luggage or person.... Thats it, I'll be looking forward to any trip that isn't USA bound... even POP..
This was true until recently. My crewing department used to send batches of passports off to the embassy for us. However recently, our rosters have started to show LON-LON which means its off to the embassy for your visa renewal.
Its really sad how us crew are treated by SOME immigration officials. I too used to enjoy my Stateside trips, but too many times I've seen Immigration clear 600+ passengers through and still not cleared 11 crew members in that time. Were often the last to leave the immigration hall.
Now its banned to take a cig lighter into the States in any part of your luggage or person.... Thats it, I'll be looking forward to any trip that isn't USA bound... even POP..
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Latvia Calling
Your post regarding the VWP is similar to Microsoft Tech Support - precisely accurate but totally useless
The VWP is only available to persons entering as TOURISTS Crew are not in this category.
VWP is only for valid machine readable passports issued before October 2005 or biometric passports - unless Congress changes the date again.
Entry into the US is entirely in the gift of the immigration officer regardless of VWP or Visa. A visa does not guarantee entry - only that you may apply for entry
Your post regarding the VWP is similar to Microsoft Tech Support - precisely accurate but totally useless
The VWP is only available to persons entering as TOURISTS Crew are not in this category.
VWP is only for valid machine readable passports issued before October 2005 or biometric passports - unless Congress changes the date again.
Entry into the US is entirely in the gift of the immigration officer regardless of VWP or Visa. A visa does not guarantee entry - only that you may apply for entry
This last week US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has been in Europe on a desperately needed "goodwill" tour trying to rekindle relations between the US administration and Europe. To quote :
"It is time to turn away from disagreements of the past. It is time to open a new chapter in our relationship, and a new chapter in our alliance"
Perhaps she can start off by dealing with things which are directly under the US Government's control, namely the way they have allowed their bureaucrats to p1ss off so many Europeans, whether it is ludicrous visa requirements that add nothing to security, the abject rudeness and arrogance that US officials enjoying their power trip show to European visitors whether at Embassy or airport (described above and in countless other places), and the other aspects that have turned so many against travel to the US, and in turn against the country.
And regarding visas for BA staff, surely someone in the US Government can realise that BA probably delivers more tourists to the US than any other carrier. So any dislocating of them is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.
"It is time to turn away from disagreements of the past. It is time to open a new chapter in our relationship, and a new chapter in our alliance"
Perhaps she can start off by dealing with things which are directly under the US Government's control, namely the way they have allowed their bureaucrats to p1ss off so many Europeans, whether it is ludicrous visa requirements that add nothing to security, the abject rudeness and arrogance that US officials enjoying their power trip show to European visitors whether at Embassy or airport (described above and in countless other places), and the other aspects that have turned so many against travel to the US, and in turn against the country.
And regarding visas for BA staff, surely someone in the US Government can realise that BA probably delivers more tourists to the US than any other carrier. So any dislocating of them is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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I have to say that American INS officials are the rudest and most hostile I've encountered anywhere. People talk about the hassle of arriving in airports like Lagos, but it's considerably more friendly and hassle-free than the USA. My last experience of Houston was such that I've decided never to return to the USA for either work, courses or holidays. My company is now looking at buying European made helicopters to replace its Sikorskys as there are just too many problems getting visas to go to USA these days. The INS is buiding huge barriers to travel and trade with the USA that must be adversely affecting the American economy from both a trade and tourism point of view.
Got back from Lagos this morning - took ten minutes gate to car going in, twenty minutes car to lounge going out. Everyone smiled, no one asked for money. Last three trips to Houston:
Going in: 3 hours / 3 hours / 2 hours
Leaving: 1.75 hours, 20 minutes, 20 minutes
The new improved arrivals hall has more space to queue, no toilets and the same number of staff.
My previous hates were Moscow (Sheremetevo) and Mumbai, but Houston sets a new benchmark for awfullness.
The TSA people have been universally polite, but the bit on the mission statement about 'treating people with respect' is about as well observed as human rights at Guantanamo.
Going in: 3 hours / 3 hours / 2 hours
Leaving: 1.75 hours, 20 minutes, 20 minutes
The new improved arrivals hall has more space to queue, no toilets and the same number of staff.
My previous hates were Moscow (Sheremetevo) and Mumbai, but Houston sets a new benchmark for awfullness.
The TSA people have been universally polite, but the bit on the mission statement about 'treating people with respect' is about as well observed as human rights at Guantanamo.
Still behind the curtain
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Patdavies,
I'm not an expert in U.S. immigration. I only posted what they said on the U.S. Embassy website in London. I agree that there may be a difference between just tourists and working people made up by a flight crew. I also think that if things are so bad the Brits shoud retaliate tit for tat.
Anjouvan,
Living on those small islands off the Canadian coast, life can't be so bad. I've visited there twice and both times it was so foggy that I went away with no impressions, whatsoever, about your little French colony by Canada. I assume you carry a French passport. Things should not be so terrible that you would have to cancel a Sikorsky deal. Have them write the U.S. Consulate a letter. On the other hand, maybe they don't have a U.S. Consulate on St. Pierre & Miqelon.
I'm not an expert in U.S. immigration. I only posted what they said on the U.S. Embassy website in London. I agree that there may be a difference between just tourists and working people made up by a flight crew. I also think that if things are so bad the Brits shoud retaliate tit for tat.
Anjouvan,
Living on those small islands off the Canadian coast, life can't be so bad. I've visited there twice and both times it was so foggy that I went away with no impressions, whatsoever, about your little French colony by Canada. I assume you carry a French passport. Things should not be so terrible that you would have to cancel a Sikorsky deal. Have them write the U.S. Consulate a letter. On the other hand, maybe they don't have a U.S. Consulate on St. Pierre & Miqelon.
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The idea to retaliate tit for tat has been mooted for US registered aircraft to be "blackballed" and ground staff to refuse to handle them until the US co-operates with the visa/immigration system.
The USA will not be happy until our airlines are sinking in the same pond of stagnation that their Big 5 have found themselves in!
Unfortunately, if we go down the route of "blackballing" US aircraft, one or two of their carriers would definitely go under - and we would be reluctant to bring redundancy on fellow airline personnel.
Mind you, if we sit and do nothing, the US government will gloat as British Airways profits, once again, are eroded through their stupidity!
Perhaps, the right course of action would be yet another delegation to the House of Commons demanding our respective MP's take up the cudgels on our behalf!
The USA will not be happy until our airlines are sinking in the same pond of stagnation that their Big 5 have found themselves in!
Unfortunately, if we go down the route of "blackballing" US aircraft, one or two of their carriers would definitely go under - and we would be reluctant to bring redundancy on fellow airline personnel.
Mind you, if we sit and do nothing, the US government will gloat as British Airways profits, once again, are eroded through their stupidity!
Perhaps, the right course of action would be yet another delegation to the House of Commons demanding our respective MP's take up the cudgels on our behalf!
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SASKATOON9999
Try and keep up. The US have changed their visa procedures in the last 6 months or so and now ALL visa applications require a visit to the US embassy.
We are not making this nup for fun it is FACT.
Apology will be recieved any time.
DA50driver
We'll lighten up when you lot get a life and stop treating every non American as a potential terrorist or criminal.
Treating people like **** now will not make up for decades of incompetence.
Y'all
Try and keep up. The US have changed their visa procedures in the last 6 months or so and now ALL visa applications require a visit to the US embassy.
We are not making this nup for fun it is FACT.
Apology will be recieved any time.
DA50driver
We'll lighten up when you lot get a life and stop treating every non American as a potential terrorist or criminal.
Treating people like **** now will not make up for decades of incompetence.
Y'all
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Maxy 101 writes:
A "funny" thing just happened to me. When entering the joyous premises of US immigration, I was halted for about 30 minutes. There was a real and utter confusion and my existence was really in doubt there. The reason: I accidentally had a small cut in my left forefinger from the week before. Turned out that cutting ones finger before entering immigration is illegal and allegedly a act of threat.
Didnīt really want to hijack this thread, but I think this is too darn funny not to tell.
A posters question "Another thing - why should British passport holders be subjected to 3 hours plus queueing to get through US immigration??? " Probably because , the average Brit doesn't have the correct pasport, or on the case of some of the pax on my flight (and unfortunately ahead of me in the immigration queue), don't know their left finger from their right finger, causing the computer system to lock up for 10 mins while the Immigration Officer rebooted his Windows driven computer.
Didnīt really want to hijack this thread, but I think this is too darn funny not to tell.
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Hmmm, now here's a horrid thought.
Just think of all AA UA ,etc, etc, crew lining up in freezing cold for hours outside UK "crew visa section" in Washington.
Plus all the much needed revenue to balance the budget. Hey, it might even lead to lower taxes.
(Dont tell the French however, they are already looking for ideas.)
Just think of all AA UA ,etc, etc, crew lining up in freezing cold for hours outside UK "crew visa section" in Washington.
Plus all the much needed revenue to balance the budget. Hey, it might even lead to lower taxes.
(Dont tell the French however, they are already looking for ideas.)
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"Please note this is not meant to be the beginning of another America bashing thread...,"
They're never "meant to be", they just always end up that way. This one included.
Normal Nigel writes..."We'll lighten up when you lot get a life and stop treating every non American as a potential terrorist or criminal.
Treating people like **** now will not make up for decades of incompetence.
Y'all"
Normal_Nigel
You obviously think you are entitled to special dispensation by virtue of....what?
The fact is, even as a citizen of the U.S.. when I present myself at the border for entry into my own country I must wait in lines in order to prove to an INS official I have a right to enter, the same as any non-citizen. I have no special status in this regard in the eyes of the law. If I can't, I won't be allowed in. This is nothing new, has nothing to do with Bush, and it certainly isn't unique to the U.S.
But I don't know why they should stop treating every non-citizen as a potential terrorist or criminal, since it's their job to treat citizens entering the country that way as well. It's part of what they do, just like any border police the world over. And given my travels abroad, it's also a given these days that even when flying domestically as a pax during non-work related travel, I'm always a selectee for special screening for a full hand-search.
Personally, I'm glad they just don't let you (or me) waltz in and out of my country, and merely being a Brit or crew certainly doesn't entitle you to do so, or equate to being of some special class. We don't believe in that "class thing", remember? That's part of why we showed you to door in the first place.
They're never "meant to be", they just always end up that way. This one included.
Normal Nigel writes..."We'll lighten up when you lot get a life and stop treating every non American as a potential terrorist or criminal.
Treating people like **** now will not make up for decades of incompetence.
Y'all"
Normal_Nigel
You obviously think you are entitled to special dispensation by virtue of....what?
The fact is, even as a citizen of the U.S.. when I present myself at the border for entry into my own country I must wait in lines in order to prove to an INS official I have a right to enter, the same as any non-citizen. I have no special status in this regard in the eyes of the law. If I can't, I won't be allowed in. This is nothing new, has nothing to do with Bush, and it certainly isn't unique to the U.S.
But I don't know why they should stop treating every non-citizen as a potential terrorist or criminal, since it's their job to treat citizens entering the country that way as well. It's part of what they do, just like any border police the world over. And given my travels abroad, it's also a given these days that even when flying domestically as a pax during non-work related travel, I'm always a selectee for special screening for a full hand-search.
Personally, I'm glad they just don't let you (or me) waltz in and out of my country, and merely being a Brit or crew certainly doesn't entitle you to do so, or equate to being of some special class. We don't believe in that "class thing", remember? That's part of why we showed you to door in the first place.
Last edited by AMF; 11th Feb 2005 at 23:02.
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How are other airlines with non-US crews doing getting their visas sorted out. How are the Japanese airlines, Australasian airlines and European airlines coping getting their crews visas.
I think the US government would like those passengers carried by BA, Virgin Air France etc. to travel on US airlines.
I think the US government would like those passengers carried by BA, Virgin Air France etc. to travel on US airlines.
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I certainly don't have a problem with the UK authorities insisting that any US crewmember wishing to come to the UK must report at the British Embassy in Washington DC at 8am for their visa interview and pay a $120 processing fee for the pleasure. Fair's fair.
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I've no problem with either side of the pond charging for visas or making people go through checks before they could get one. If countries begin to make it difficult for foreign airline crews to get in and out of their country on a work basis where will it end.
If it all degenerates into tit for tat obstruction we'll all be flying domestic flights for the near future. Governments will have to ensure that they have adequate staff in their immigration departments to process visas in a reasonable time frame.
If it all degenerates into tit for tat obstruction we'll all be flying domestic flights for the near future. Governments will have to ensure that they have adequate staff in their immigration departments to process visas in a reasonable time frame.
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In the meantime, I won't be visiting the USA either, since I am fed up of having to explain issues such as this (and many less complex) to a race of well meaning, generally friendly, but mainly hopelessy naive people who cannot understand that their country has been a player in creating and developing Mid Eastern terrorism and now think that it is fair to punish everyone else by imposing measures to address a situation that they do not see they are partly responsible for.
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I think you'll find that some of the offence taken at the visa requirement and its sometime excessively cumbersome procedures [like taking the same time to process 38 crew at LAX as 700+ pax] is caused by a nation who really needs to sit down and take stock of who its mates are. The circle just could be decreasing and its not too bright to piss off the only mates you have.
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We must remember a British passport is no guarantee of a person. Richard Read the 'shoe bomber' was Brit, we have had several 'British citizens' held at Guantanamo- though from their names one can hardly believe they are 'British'. People are using the cover of a British passport to carry out anti-Western activities. No wonder a British passport is not regarded as particularly 'safe'.
There is a load of virulent anti-Americanism using this Immigration procedure as an excuse to let rip. We did not lose 2500 people and some expensive real estate less than 4 years ago- had a large slice of central London been taken out, we would not be happy bunnies either.
There is a load of virulent anti-Americanism using this Immigration procedure as an excuse to let rip. We did not lose 2500 people and some expensive real estate less than 4 years ago- had a large slice of central London been taken out, we would not be happy bunnies either.