UK pilot breathalysed after go arounds
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Minor incident egh?!
BJCC
Minor incident in terms of nobody was killed or injured; minor incident NOT for abuse of police power.
From the 'evidence' we have, there could never have been "reasonable grounds" for that copper to breath test the pilots for it was NOT his ab initio suspicions that were aroused that one or both pilots to be above the legal flying limit and so give him the lawful excuse to ask for a breath-test.
So BJCC does that give you any right to breath-test the pilots? Course not.
Tell the audience here what gave you the right to wander through those, "fair few" aircraft - which you must have done, to state the smell extended "throughout the aircraft". Was it a power trip or had you a real job to do?
Were you invited into the Flight Decks - or did you use your powers of entry?
Did you breath-test ANYBODY on those, "fair few aircraft"?
If not, why not?
So we now have the ludicrous new law you have just invented, that if the inside of an aircraft smells of alcohol when the front door is opened it gives coppers the right to breath-test the pilots - is that how you interpret your police powers? You want re-training Mr.
It is that sort of guff BJCC that what most of us here translate into the abuse of power you seem to nurture and push.
Oh! So it is down to "someone" now is it? It is down to just "possible" also.
Well we are gathering the "reasonable grounds" for the police powers to come into play are we not.
The inside of the aircraft smells of alcohol; right lads, breath-test the whole crew (forget the 100 passengers they have to drive home). In this minor incident of yours there was no mention of the aircraft being under the influence was there? No smell of alcohol, was there BJCC?
Would that "someone" who could have been over the limit be the stupid woman who started all this crap in the first place?
I did not see the results of her breath-test splattered all over the Manchester Evening News!
This minor incident should never have been carried forward by the copper, from what we have before us.
Ah! The aircraft smelling of alcohol throughout - of course!
A silly woman complaining that the crew were too relaxed!
No accident. No copper having his own, "reasonable grounds" to suspect TWO pilots were over the limit.
For our further education BJCC what exactly would be these, corresponding lower factors which would conspire and build to make those reasonable grounds?
Where can we find in your Law Books those items to be checked in the case of suspecting PILOTS to be over the limit?
The object of having "reasonable grounds" in his (said copper) mind from the very outset, and NOT somebody else's utterly preposterous complaint is the heart of the matter - and abuse of police power comes from that.
I am not in BALPA any more, but I hope to hear or see the outcome of the complaints put forward on the pilot's behalf.
I doubt whether we will see the Police report into the matter - or those "reasonable grounds" and "suspicions".
Fight off these stupid "minor incidents" my fellow pilots.
TG
Minor incident in terms of nobody was killed or injured; minor incident NOT for abuse of police power.
From the 'evidence' we have, there could never have been "reasonable grounds" for that copper to breath test the pilots for it was NOT his ab initio suspicions that were aroused that one or both pilots to be above the legal flying limit and so give him the lawful excuse to ask for a breath-test.
Having met a fair few aircraft on arrival, the smell of alcohol when the doors are opened can be strong, throughout the aircraft.
Tell the audience here what gave you the right to wander through those, "fair few" aircraft - which you must have done, to state the smell extended "throughout the aircraft". Was it a power trip or had you a real job to do?
Were you invited into the Flight Decks - or did you use your powers of entry?
Did you breath-test ANYBODY on those, "fair few aircraft"?
If not, why not?
So in fact there may have been that smell. In that case, the rather unscientific 'nose in the mouth test' would have been inappropriate, but a breath test would be.
It is that sort of guff BJCC that what most of us here translate into the abuse of power you seem to nurture and push.
So it is possible that someone could have been over the limit.
Well we are gathering the "reasonable grounds" for the police powers to come into play are we not.
The inside of the aircraft smells of alcohol; right lads, breath-test the whole crew (forget the 100 passengers they have to drive home). In this minor incident of yours there was no mention of the aircraft being under the influence was there? No smell of alcohol, was there BJCC?
Would that "someone" who could have been over the limit be the stupid woman who started all this crap in the first place?
I did not see the results of her breath-test splattered all over the Manchester Evening News!
This minor incident should never have been carried forward by the copper, from what we have before us.
That limit, as FL points out is very low. Therefore the reasonable grounds and the factors looked for would be correspondingly lower.
A silly woman complaining that the crew were too relaxed!
No accident. No copper having his own, "reasonable grounds" to suspect TWO pilots were over the limit.
For our further education BJCC what exactly would be these, corresponding lower factors which would conspire and build to make those reasonable grounds?
Where can we find in your Law Books those items to be checked in the case of suspecting PILOTS to be over the limit?
the object of a breath test, to show one way or the other.
I am not in BALPA any more, but I hope to hear or see the outcome of the complaints put forward on the pilot's behalf.
I doubt whether we will see the Police report into the matter - or those "reasonable grounds" and "suspicions".
Fight off these stupid "minor incidents" my fellow pilots.
TG
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Nobody here knows exactly what happened and neither do I, but I suspect that the PC's shoulders were not broad enough to resist the 'pressure' of the allegation and that he/she therefore felt the need to investigate and ask for a breathsample.
The crew's knowledge of the law may not have been enough, their shoulders not broad enough nor the situation conducive to a refusal, see FL's excellent advice on this.
It is all well and good for all of us here to be very clever about the ins and outs, and who should have done what, and what we would have done in the same situation.
This occurence is a reflection of what our society is all about, and a pretty sad state of affairs it is too.
Make no mistake, society, that is you too.
The crew's knowledge of the law may not have been enough, their shoulders not broad enough nor the situation conducive to a refusal, see FL's excellent advice on this.
It is all well and good for all of us here to be very clever about the ins and outs, and who should have done what, and what we would have done in the same situation.
This occurence is a reflection of what our society is all about, and a pretty sad state of affairs it is too.
Make no mistake, society, that is you too.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Tartan Giant
'Abuse of police power' Ok, lets start with that shall we? How is it abuse?
In order to substantiate that you need to KNOW several things.
First exactly what was said by the woman, not what has been quoted on here. Do you know what she said?
Second. What the Police officer found when he arrived and spoke to the crew. Do you know what he found? Do you know what he saw?
In the absence of that knowlage, you cannot claim that there was any abuse of power. If you do know the FULL details, then please do tell. Then again, you did admit earlier in all of this that you were not there and don't know.
What gave me the 'right' to wander though an aircraft?
Plenty of right, ranging from investigating crime, to dealing with drunks to dealing with deaths and injuries. In any event is it relevent what 'right' I had?
Face some facts please. You accuse the officer of abuse of power, a serious allagation, without the knowladge to back that up. Are you not doing thing you accuse the woman of?
'Abuse of police power' Ok, lets start with that shall we? How is it abuse?
In order to substantiate that you need to KNOW several things.
First exactly what was said by the woman, not what has been quoted on here. Do you know what she said?
Second. What the Police officer found when he arrived and spoke to the crew. Do you know what he found? Do you know what he saw?
In the absence of that knowlage, you cannot claim that there was any abuse of power. If you do know the FULL details, then please do tell. Then again, you did admit earlier in all of this that you were not there and don't know.
What gave me the 'right' to wander though an aircraft?
Plenty of right, ranging from investigating crime, to dealing with drunks to dealing with deaths and injuries. In any event is it relevent what 'right' I had?
Face some facts please. You accuse the officer of abuse of power, a serious allagation, without the knowladge to back that up. Are you not doing thing you accuse the woman of?
Join Date: Mar 2001
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What is everyone so worried about here? When I started flying it was in a profession that encouraged social drinking, perhaps to excess, when flying the next day. This was my experience both in my military and civilian careers. Thankfully those reckless days are gone and we are all much more professional in our "fit to fly approach". However, this is only due to public awareness and changes in the law. I personally do not have a problem with being breathalised and I am willing to accept that occasionally some young inexperienced policeman or even some macho hot head in paramilitary kit will breathalise me when the situation does not warrant it. I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. I would rather this than the ludicrous situations I have witnessed in the past with pilots flying when very unfit through drink.
I'matightbastard
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I turned up to fly some freight one night and they said "Right Onan, you've been selected for a random drug test. Here's the paperwork, the place is out on 183."
"Oh, ok" says I "what do I do? Call 'em up and make an appointment?"
"Well if you do that" she replied, an edge to her voice "it won't really be random now would it?"
Here is a picture of her telling me this ===>
btw, I passed the random drug test, even though I had to guess at two of them.
"Oh, ok" says I "what do I do? Call 'em up and make an appointment?"
"Well if you do that" she replied, an edge to her voice "it won't really be random now would it?"
Here is a picture of her telling me this ===>
btw, I passed the random drug test, even though I had to guess at two of them.
