Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Whats going on at LHR 19jan - Flow rate 0/60 ??

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Whats going on at LHR 19jan - Flow rate 0/60 ??

Old 19th Jan 2005, 06:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 98
Whats going on at LHR 19jan - Flow rate 0/60 ??

Hi all

19 jan 0730z flowrate into LHR 0/60. Whats going on? We can't get any ac out to lhr.

Flap
Flap Sup is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 07:57
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course
Posts: 2,116
REF. : EGLL ARR
.
REG : EGLLA19M
.
VALID : FROM: 0730 UNTIL: 0900 UTC
.
REMARKS : DUE TO A DISABLED AIRCRAFT ON THE RUNWAY A ZERO RATE
REGULATION HAS BEEN APPLIED AT EGLL ARRIVALS.
FMD STAFF ARE CONTINUOUSLY MONITORING THE SITUATION AND
WILL ADVISE OF ANY POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENTS.
IN THE MEANTIME OPERATORS ARE STRONGLY REQUESTED NOT TO
TELEPHONE FMD HELPDESK ABOUT EGLL ARRIVALS.
.
FMD BRUSSELS.
TopBunk is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 08:03
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Age: 50
Posts: 200
Nose wheel steering problem I believe...
Bucking Bronco is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 08:20
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 8,275
By 08.30 Greenwich Mean Time wireless operators near Heathrow were reporting "engines overhead" so things must be returning to normal..
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 19:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 181
Angel Flow rates

Never mind what went on to-day, what was going on yesterday on approaches into EGLHR? I was SLF on a lufthansa from Munich to Heathrow in the middle of the day & we were still held for 20"-30" , what's going on? I thought Swanwick was supposed to make holding a thing of the past? Comments eagerly awaited.
with fraternal greetings, ambi
ambidextrous is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 19:24
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 302
Isn't there an aic or something similar that says crews should expect to hold for 20 to 30 minutes at LHR even when they are advised, No delay??

TIO
Turn It Off is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 19:38
  #7 (permalink)  
Stealth Moderator - Rarely seen on radar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 1997
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,228
I thought Swanwick was supposed to make holding a thing of the past?
It pretty much has I think. Can't recall seeing any en route holding for years now, except in emergency situations.

Now if you meant Terminal Control operations (which is done from West Drayton) ...... then holding provides a reservoir of aircraft which helps provide an optimised maximum arrival rate since ATC can constantly keep the stream of inbound aircraft on the approach topped up, as well as managing arrival streams to provide the maximum number of aircraft per hour taking in to account vortex wake separations or physical constraints such as bad weather.

In addition, there is a maximum limit to the number of aircraft per hour which can occupy the tarmac (both runways and stands). Look at the airline timetables and you will find that the airlines take little account of this when writing their schedules. There may be around 20 or 30 aircraft planned to depart or arrive at the same time which obviously is a physical impossibility in reality. So someone somewhere will either pick up a delay on the ground or in the air.

One of our Terminal ATCOs (the ATC speciality and not an indication of their health !!) can probably elaborate further but that's the basics.
PPRuNe Radar is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2005, 19:57
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 71
Posts: 1,539
In addition, there is a maximum limit to the number of aircraft per hour which can occupy the tarmac (both runways and stands). Look at the airline timetables and you will find that the airlines take little account of this when writing their schedules. There may be around 20 or 30 aircraft planned to depart or arrive at the same time which obviously is a physical impossibility in reality. So someone somewhere will either pick up a delay on the ground or in the air.
Actually there's a complex system to try and alleviate this situation. An independent company called Airport Coordination Ltd (ACL) take the number of movements that ATC agree that they can handle in any given hour and then allocate these movements runway 'slots'. These are quite different from airborne slots that are allocated for the en-route part of the flight. Thus at LGW, ATC have agreed that in some hours they can handle 49 movements. ACL then farm out that number of slots for that given hour. The airlines are then supposed to write their schedules around this. Of course, they occasionally can't and we sometimes find that ticketed times are WAY off the slot they've been allocated. With scheduled, well established airlines who have 'grandfather' rights to certain slots, there's no problem, it's usually the newer, charter operators who get in a bind.

We do closely monitor slot performance and constantly try to improve it. Very rarely, we have to deny an aircraft departure approval until their due time. We don't like doing this as often there's a planeload of people on board but by allowing one a/c to 'jump the queue' the knock-on delays can affect many times that number of people on other a/c who are operating within their agreed times.

Of course we and ATC will bend over backwards to help genuine delays or getting a rescue a/c to another airport to put someone's programme back on track.

Cheers,
The Odd One
TheOddOne is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2005, 06:33
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 71
Posts: 1,539
Rescue 3,

Thus at LGW,
Yes, very slightly off-thread, I know, but I thought it helpful to illustrate more fully the problems and issues with runway slots at an aerodrome with a wider mix of traffic. The runway slot scheme operates in exactly the same way at LHR, with ACL doing the coordinating.

Cheers,
TOO
TheOddOne is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2005, 07:04
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 8,275
<<The runway slot scheme operates in exactly the same way at LHR,>>

All changed since I was there then....
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2005, 11:31
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 181
Angel Flow rates

To all the above contributors,
Thank you very much for enlightening me, I'll now return to 'Rotorheads' where life would appear to be very much simpler!
with fraternal greetings, ambi
ambidextrous is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.