easyJet - pilot tested over the limit?
Condor,
you are a prick. I have archived your post in case those you slur wish to take issue with you once you've deleted it.
Get a life, don't post hearsay or malicious gossip without first-hand knowledge. Little of what you posted bears any resemblance to the facts of the matter. Certainly there was NO evidence of any wrongdoing.
you are a prick. I have archived your post in case those you slur wish to take issue with you once you've deleted it.
Get a life, don't post hearsay or malicious gossip without first-hand knowledge. Little of what you posted bears any resemblance to the facts of the matter. Certainly there was NO evidence of any wrongdoing.
Last edited by osbo; 22nd Jan 2005 at 00:27.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
public concern?
Washington AP
"There is a higher level of public awareness," said Greg Overman, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Union, which represents pilots at Fort Worth, Texas-based American Airlines. "The number of false accusations has risen, and even when there's a false accusation by a passenger or a security screener, it tends to make headlines."
... just a little note from "the other side of the pond".
"There is a higher level of public awareness," said Greg Overman, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Union, which represents pilots at Fort Worth, Texas-based American Airlines. "The number of false accusations has risen, and even when there's a false accusation by a passenger or a security screener, it tends to make headlines."
... just a little note from "the other side of the pond".
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Head on the Floor, Feet in the Clouds
Age: 51
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I could just re-iterate the point made by the Squid earlier in this thread:
This thread, more than likely, was started by a hack who was counting on a bit of Gossip and has got PLENTY.
Unplugged has not contributed anything to the discussion other than starting the thread and looking at his/her profile and seeing they can't even spell 'Captain' correctly has me thinking:
"WOOP WOOP....WARNING WARNING!"
HG
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
This thread, more than likely, was started by a hack who was counting on a bit of Gossip and has got PLENTY.
Unplugged has not contributed anything to the discussion other than starting the thread and looking at his/her profile and seeing they can't even spell 'Captain' correctly has me thinking:
"WOOP WOOP....WARNING WARNING!"
HG
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Top of the World
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wawkrk
I too told a similar story by a reliable lady who personally witnessed a similar instance only this was a certain airline eh from down under. Replace the hotel bar with a sailing club bar, replace going to a bed for a few hours with having to head directly to an airport to take control of a commercial jet. The scenario about being totally legless and hardly able to stand up would not need to be replaced.
It's funny how clever marketing can deceive the travelling public that certain airlines are squeaky clean with flight crews that you can depend on, it's disconcerting how much reality seems to be removed from the truth. How many incidents are occuring that we don't know about? P*ssed pilots & suicidal pilots at the controls are hardly the reality I expected. I know what airline I'll be avoiding when I'm travelling to Oz this year, question is am I unintentionally by choosing another airline just jumping unbeknowst to me from the frying pan into the fire.
P*ssed pilots who are drinking within the bottle to trottle time just aren't cute or smart or funny, the're downright dangerous, selfish & irresponsible. As Danny rightly stated on another thread one only has to look into many of the profiles of the self declared pilots on this site or speak to them to see them unashamed, openly admit that drinking is way top of the list of their pastimes if not their only one (some of you must lead very boring, empty lives
). It almost seems a proud right of passage in a profession which demands responsibility & whose members may be responsible for 100's of lifes at a given minute.
At the risk of sounding 'too puritanical', some smart@ss suggested here that I stick to paxing in pilotless airplanes perhaps he & his type should have stuck to flying planes on Microsoft Simulator rather than putting lives at risks in their wink wink, hush hush, nudge nudge environments.
I too told a similar story by a reliable lady who personally witnessed a similar instance only this was a certain airline eh from down under. Replace the hotel bar with a sailing club bar, replace going to a bed for a few hours with having to head directly to an airport to take control of a commercial jet. The scenario about being totally legless and hardly able to stand up would not need to be replaced.
It's funny how clever marketing can deceive the travelling public that certain airlines are squeaky clean with flight crews that you can depend on, it's disconcerting how much reality seems to be removed from the truth. How many incidents are occuring that we don't know about? P*ssed pilots & suicidal pilots at the controls are hardly the reality I expected. I know what airline I'll be avoiding when I'm travelling to Oz this year, question is am I unintentionally by choosing another airline just jumping unbeknowst to me from the frying pan into the fire.
P*ssed pilots who are drinking within the bottle to trottle time just aren't cute or smart or funny, the're downright dangerous, selfish & irresponsible. As Danny rightly stated on another thread one only has to look into many of the profiles of the self declared pilots on this site or speak to them to see them unashamed, openly admit that drinking is way top of the list of their pastimes if not their only one (some of you must lead very boring, empty lives
). It almost seems a proud right of passage in a profession which demands responsibility & whose members may be responsible for 100's of lifes at a given minute. At the risk of sounding 'too puritanical', some smart@ss suggested here that I stick to paxing in pilotless airplanes perhaps he & his type should have stuck to flying planes on Microsoft Simulator rather than putting lives at risks in their wink wink, hush hush, nudge nudge environments.
Last edited by Omaha; 24th Jan 2005 at 14:16.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Spain
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am told I know who this lady is. All I can say is she is one of the most proffessional people I have ever known. It must have been a real problem for her to get into this state.
I hope all works out for her
I hope all works out for her
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just rereading this thread and marked on HandSpringGuy's latest submission and journalistic paranoia.. Of course, unless the posters are then lying about what they write (reference to Danny's "elicit certain responses" then in some ways what is the problem? They will hear the information somewhere sometime and get it corrupted in the editing process anyway, rather than some "secret cabal of pilots" whereby one day someone will break rank.
To Condor
Either get your facts straight or don't bother posting.
Re: the Manchester Go-Arounds.
Firstly the passenger did not smell "alcohol on their (the pilots) breaths" - she didn't meet them, she in fact rang the police anonomously, after landing alledgeding that the crew sounded so relaxed on the PA they must be drunk........got that?
Secondly it was not an "alledgedly positive breath test" it was a negative test for both pilots......
Apart from that your post was perfectly accurate, yes it has all gone quiet - there is nothing further to report, and the only fingers being pointed are in the direction of the woman who made the telephone call.
Either get your facts straight or don't bother posting.
Re: the Manchester Go-Arounds.
Firstly the passenger did not smell "alcohol on their (the pilots) breaths" - she didn't meet them, she in fact rang the police anonomously, after landing alledgeding that the crew sounded so relaxed on the PA they must be drunk........got that?
Secondly it was not an "alledgedly positive breath test" it was a negative test for both pilots......
Apart from that your post was perfectly accurate, yes it has all gone quiet - there is nothing further to report, and the only fingers being pointed are in the direction of the woman who made the telephone call.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a human side to this of course; as we all studied HF and CRM maybe certain aspects of the human response to the environment need to be considered.
Firstly, the regulations on the consumption of alcohol and use / misuse of substances are well known to all of us. Secondly, until a full investigation has been completed, and the incident has been adequately examined any opinion on the culpability of the pilot must be reserved.
However, the long term effect of stress and fatigue may well contribute to anyone reacting to a set of circumstances in an irrational manner or in a way which is completely out of character.
I took a few points from a CRM / HF book regarding the effect of fatigue on the body / mind:
ƒÞ More willing to accept poor performance
ƒÞ Show signs of poor judgment
ƒÞ Impaired thinking
ƒÞ Irritability and mood swings
ƒÞ Euphoria
ƒÞ Punchy
ƒÞ Decreased response time
ƒÞ Decreased motor skills
One could argue that a single, isolated incident could well be the result of acute or chronic fatigue: the addition of a "life crisis" could be the straw which breaks the camel's back. The pilot who has overindulged the night before duty could be displaying traits which the first 4 lines account for. Lines 5 and 6 would depend on how the person was generally disposed; do they laugh things off or become aggressive?
Stress is the body's response to the demands placed upon it. In aviation this could be any of these ( not exhaustive):
ƒÞ Medicals
ƒÞ Checkrides
ƒÞ Illness
ƒÞ Pay
ƒÞ Conflict
ƒÞ Fears related to flying
ƒÞ Time schedules
ƒÞ Passengers
ƒÞ Noise and vibration
ƒÞ Temperature and humidity
ƒÞ Diet
ƒÞ Dehydration
ƒÞ Altitude changes
ƒÞ Confined space
ƒÞ Poor visibility
ƒÞ Fatigue
The symptoms one might encounter:
ƒÞ Muscle tightness
ƒÞ Aches and pains
ƒÞ Upset stomach
ƒÞ Anxiety
ƒÞ Depression
ƒÞ Feelings of depletion
ƒÞ Emotional burnout
ƒÞ Emotional outbursts
ƒÞ Withdrawal
ƒÞ Conflict in relationships
ƒÞ Lack of energy
We experience most of the stressors each and every day and no doubt one or more of the symptoms.
We rely on a our time off and a good nights rest / sleep to recover; when that does not happen we may resort to having "just one more" to help sleep. Strange bed, disturbed Circadians etc.
When does that "just one more" reach the boundary, or cross it??
With the continuing drive for savings / increased productivity the hours crews have to work are increasing ( I'm talking Duty here as Flight time may be substantially less than Duty) and the standards they have forced on them are reducing ( cheaper hotels / noisier / poor food / poor facilities). In the end something has to give.
Without a commitment from the airlines to actually practice what they preach in CRM or someone invents a fatigue "breathalyser" things will get worse before they better.
Firstly, the regulations on the consumption of alcohol and use / misuse of substances are well known to all of us. Secondly, until a full investigation has been completed, and the incident has been adequately examined any opinion on the culpability of the pilot must be reserved.
However, the long term effect of stress and fatigue may well contribute to anyone reacting to a set of circumstances in an irrational manner or in a way which is completely out of character.
I took a few points from a CRM / HF book regarding the effect of fatigue on the body / mind:
ƒÞ More willing to accept poor performance
ƒÞ Show signs of poor judgment
ƒÞ Impaired thinking
ƒÞ Irritability and mood swings
ƒÞ Euphoria
ƒÞ Punchy
ƒÞ Decreased response time
ƒÞ Decreased motor skills
One could argue that a single, isolated incident could well be the result of acute or chronic fatigue: the addition of a "life crisis" could be the straw which breaks the camel's back. The pilot who has overindulged the night before duty could be displaying traits which the first 4 lines account for. Lines 5 and 6 would depend on how the person was generally disposed; do they laugh things off or become aggressive?
Stress is the body's response to the demands placed upon it. In aviation this could be any of these ( not exhaustive):
ƒÞ Medicals
ƒÞ Checkrides
ƒÞ Illness
ƒÞ Pay
ƒÞ Conflict
ƒÞ Fears related to flying
ƒÞ Time schedules
ƒÞ Passengers
ƒÞ Noise and vibration
ƒÞ Temperature and humidity
ƒÞ Diet
ƒÞ Dehydration
ƒÞ Altitude changes
ƒÞ Confined space
ƒÞ Poor visibility
ƒÞ Fatigue
The symptoms one might encounter:
ƒÞ Muscle tightness
ƒÞ Aches and pains
ƒÞ Upset stomach
ƒÞ Anxiety
ƒÞ Depression
ƒÞ Feelings of depletion
ƒÞ Emotional burnout
ƒÞ Emotional outbursts
ƒÞ Withdrawal
ƒÞ Conflict in relationships
ƒÞ Lack of energy
We experience most of the stressors each and every day and no doubt one or more of the symptoms.
We rely on a our time off and a good nights rest / sleep to recover; when that does not happen we may resort to having "just one more" to help sleep. Strange bed, disturbed Circadians etc.
When does that "just one more" reach the boundary, or cross it??
With the continuing drive for savings / increased productivity the hours crews have to work are increasing ( I'm talking Duty here as Flight time may be substantially less than Duty) and the standards they have forced on them are reducing ( cheaper hotels / noisier / poor food / poor facilities). In the end something has to give.
Without a commitment from the airlines to actually practice what they preach in CRM or someone invents a fatigue "breathalyser" things will get worse before they better.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Way up north
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very good post.
As managements prefer to overlook the facts about fatigue, it must be convenient to have media divert attention with cases like this.
Edited: On second thought content of post seemed more suitable for another related thread.
As managements prefer to overlook the facts about fatigue, it must be convenient to have media divert attention with cases like this.
Edited: On second thought content of post seemed more suitable for another related thread.
Last edited by Nardi Riviera; 8th Feb 2005 at 07:54.
