Flight International for better or for worse?
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Yep, I´m also very disappointed with FI. They keep on filling issues with all those stupid directories like the :
Gas Turbine directory . Yes, I happen to need a gas turbine for my bicycle…
Maintanance directory. Let´s face it, if you run an airline and need to pick up a copy of FI to see where you can do a C check for your B737, something is seriously wrong !
Militairy trainer directory. Sure ! I´m in the market for a military trainer. The politicians (who make the descisions) all read the FI !
World Rocket directory. Does anybody really care ?
World Fighter directory. I can barely afford the lease on my BMW…!
Etctera……the list goes on and on. The only directory I like is the Airlines directory (although the JP Airlines Fleets is much better and accurate) and the Simulator directory.
For the rest, very little in depth news. The crisis at Swissair is a perfect example. FI basically reports the same stuff that I can watch on Swiss TV or CNN one week before the FI falls into my mailbox.
I fly for Crossair (F/O Saab 2000) so I was expecting/hoping for some real substance.
Gas Turbine directory . Yes, I happen to need a gas turbine for my bicycle…
Maintanance directory. Let´s face it, if you run an airline and need to pick up a copy of FI to see where you can do a C check for your B737, something is seriously wrong !
Militairy trainer directory. Sure ! I´m in the market for a military trainer. The politicians (who make the descisions) all read the FI !
World Rocket directory. Does anybody really care ?
World Fighter directory. I can barely afford the lease on my BMW…!
Etctera……the list goes on and on. The only directory I like is the Airlines directory (although the JP Airlines Fleets is much better and accurate) and the Simulator directory.
For the rest, very little in depth news. The crisis at Swissair is a perfect example. FI basically reports the same stuff that I can watch on Swiss TV or CNN one week before the FI falls into my mailbox.
I fly for Crossair (F/O Saab 2000) so I was expecting/hoping for some real substance.
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I have just gone through Septembers copy of Airliner World and the stats shows FI up for the bad value and poor content that it really is.
If you saw the figures from my previous post and compare them with the following from AW.
First 19 pages world news broken down by region with only one advert.
Total No. of pages 81 on a very high quality paper and excellent pictures.
Of those 81 pages only 10 are adverts and classifieds.
Three pages given to readers comments and letters.
The magazine plainly says on the front cover "The Global Airline Scene", and thats what it sticks to.
Have a look at www.airlinerworld.com
BTW Bex I dont know of any aircraft with 60 deg but it just sounded good in one of my weaker momments.
If you saw the figures from my previous post and compare them with the following from AW.
First 19 pages world news broken down by region with only one advert.
Total No. of pages 81 on a very high quality paper and excellent pictures.
Of those 81 pages only 10 are adverts and classifieds.
Three pages given to readers comments and letters.
The magazine plainly says on the front cover "The Global Airline Scene", and thats what it sticks to.
Have a look at www.airlinerworld.com
BTW Bex I dont know of any aircraft with 60 deg but it just sounded good in one of my weaker momments.
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Flight International is damnably expensive in OZ due to low Aussie dollar. Certainly there seems to have been a steady decline in interesting articles in the magazine. The Roger Bacon page is no longer witty and the Letters page has no punch anymore. After my FI subs run out, I will try AOPA (USA). Now that's always got excellent technical articles for aviators.
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After a 3 years subscription I did not renew because I was bored of the overhleming military and sapce section.
As many others I used to look at the job pages first and most of the rest was of minor interest.
The jobs are posted on the internet, the ad's I really do not need and for the rest there are other better magazines.
As many others I used to look at the job pages first and most of the rest was of minor interest.
The jobs are posted on the internet, the ad's I really do not need and for the rest there are other better magazines.
Agree totally that 'Flight' has gone right down the gurgler of late.
It has but one use - and that results purely from the fact that it now has absorbent sheets!!
However, there should be more than just Air Transport content in the magazine. Aerospace and Defence related news and comment does have a place - it's not just a magazine for job-hunting wannabees and union agitators!
Now - where've I put my copy of that riveting 'World Simulator Directory' edition..........
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
It has but one use - and that results purely from the fact that it now has absorbent sheets!!
However, there should be more than just Air Transport content in the magazine. Aerospace and Defence related news and comment does have a place - it's not just a magazine for job-hunting wannabees and union agitators!
Now - where've I put my copy of that riveting 'World Simulator Directory' edition..........
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
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I just remembered that I renewed my subs at the start of June so thats me locked in till next year.
Apart from that we have yet to receive a reply from the boys in Flight about the recent comments.
Other mags I pick up when ever I can:
airliner world
airways - www.airwaysmag.com
Air international - www.airinternational.com
Apart from that we have yet to receive a reply from the boys in Flight about the recent comments.
Other mags I pick up when ever I can:
airliner world
airways - www.airwaysmag.com
Air international - www.airinternational.com
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Gentlemen and Ladies,
Agree with all of the above comments,but could someone enlighten me on whether any of the other mags have the latest "jobs" section,this is FIs strongest attraction for most of the commercial pilots out there and those aspiring I assume.?
And where for example do our N.American brethren obtain their job info,is it FI too?
I too read FI backwards,have done for 20 yrs,but I find my weekly read is over by TOD on a short sector,however I renewed for 3 yrs last year,so Im stuck until 2003.
Answers on a postcard please.
Rommel.
Agree with all of the above comments,but could someone enlighten me on whether any of the other mags have the latest "jobs" section,this is FIs strongest attraction for most of the commercial pilots out there and those aspiring I assume.?
And where for example do our N.American brethren obtain their job info,is it FI too?
I too read FI backwards,have done for 20 yrs,but I find my weekly read is over by TOD on a short sector,however I renewed for 3 yrs last year,so Im stuck until 2003.
Answers on a postcard please.
Rommel.
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Isn't it amazing, nearly everyone mentions the back pages in FI with regards jobs. I too have looked there, but I have just realised that in 33 years I've never actually applied for a position advertised!
My three airline jobs have come by either letter writing or being in the right place at the right time.
So one could ask, what are the FI back pages really worth?
My three airline jobs have come by either letter writing or being in the right place at the right time.
So one could ask, what are the FI back pages really worth?
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To Flaps to 60:
I'll bet that the good old Comet had a 60 degree flap setting (in fact it used to look closer to 80!); any Nimrod drivers out there that could comment?
As for FI, I reluctantly let my subscription lapse recently after about 20 years 'cos it really wasn't worth it any more. I've bought the odd copy since but it just seems to get thinner and thinner. Sad, really sad.
I'll bet that the good old Comet had a 60 degree flap setting (in fact it used to look closer to 80!); any Nimrod drivers out there that could comment?
As for FI, I reluctantly let my subscription lapse recently after about 20 years 'cos it really wasn't worth it any more. I've bought the odd copy since but it just seems to get thinner and thinner. Sad, really sad.
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Fellow PPRuNers
Sorry I took so long. I've been on leave and nowhere near a PC.
No excuses here, just some information.
1. PPruNer comment: Flight is very thin.
You're right, at the moment it is. It was my reaction on picking up a copy when it arrived in the office from the printers this week. Sorry! But at this time of the year it always is. All of the media are faced with their "silly season", and this is ours. Lots of industry people are on hols, including the advertisers.
2. PPRuNer comment: it's best read from the back.
Pilots have said that since Pontius was flying, and from the pilot's point of view it's a logical way to read the mag - providing you get your money's worth by reading what you want from the rest after checking what the job market's like.
3. PPRuNer comment: it's a lousy pilots' mag except for the job ads.
I disagree, but I would wouldn't I? Actually Flight, since founded in 1909, never was ONLY a pilot's magazine, it has always been an aerospace industry magazine which writes for pilots as well as many others. Our readers include pilots, aircraft designers, aircraft manufacturers, aircraft engineers, maintenance organisations, people from the systems, avionics and aviation service industries, air traffic controllers, safety regulators and rulemakers (CAA/FAA/AAIB/NTSB etc all over the world), people running organisations like ICAO and IATA, people who run airports, and aviation lawyers, aviation insurers, aviation medics, aviation psychologists, academics, students .........
I don't suppose that impressed too many PPRuNers if they are dyed-in-the-wool pilot-only pilots, but a lot of pilots want to know what's happening in their industry, why it's happening, what kind of flight deck kit they're likely to face when they convert onto a new aeroplane type in five years' time, whether their company looks as if it's going to be around in five years' time and if not, who is etc etc.....
I suspect that the best I may have done here is to reassure you, by finally coming onto the thread to answer you, that we actually -
a) read PPRuNe religiously
b) care about what you think and say,
c) and do get stung somewhat by your comment, especially when you're right (eg: "Flight's very thin at the moment") and also at other times when some pretty rabid criticism is actually wrong.
We do our best to write for pilots, but not ONLY for pilots. If you want to know where you, as a pilot, fit into the grand aerospace scheme of things, we're a pretty good read.
And be assured, in a couple of weeks you'll start getting the fat issues again. If you still subscribe by then!
David L
Sorry I took so long. I've been on leave and nowhere near a PC.
No excuses here, just some information.
1. PPruNer comment: Flight is very thin.
You're right, at the moment it is. It was my reaction on picking up a copy when it arrived in the office from the printers this week. Sorry! But at this time of the year it always is. All of the media are faced with their "silly season", and this is ours. Lots of industry people are on hols, including the advertisers.
2. PPRuNer comment: it's best read from the back.
Pilots have said that since Pontius was flying, and from the pilot's point of view it's a logical way to read the mag - providing you get your money's worth by reading what you want from the rest after checking what the job market's like.
3. PPRuNer comment: it's a lousy pilots' mag except for the job ads.
I disagree, but I would wouldn't I? Actually Flight, since founded in 1909, never was ONLY a pilot's magazine, it has always been an aerospace industry magazine which writes for pilots as well as many others. Our readers include pilots, aircraft designers, aircraft manufacturers, aircraft engineers, maintenance organisations, people from the systems, avionics and aviation service industries, air traffic controllers, safety regulators and rulemakers (CAA/FAA/AAIB/NTSB etc all over the world), people running organisations like ICAO and IATA, people who run airports, and aviation lawyers, aviation insurers, aviation medics, aviation psychologists, academics, students .........
I don't suppose that impressed too many PPRuNers if they are dyed-in-the-wool pilot-only pilots, but a lot of pilots want to know what's happening in their industry, why it's happening, what kind of flight deck kit they're likely to face when they convert onto a new aeroplane type in five years' time, whether their company looks as if it's going to be around in five years' time and if not, who is etc etc.....
I suspect that the best I may have done here is to reassure you, by finally coming onto the thread to answer you, that we actually -
a) read PPRuNe religiously
b) care about what you think and say,
c) and do get stung somewhat by your comment, especially when you're right (eg: "Flight's very thin at the moment") and also at other times when some pretty rabid criticism is actually wrong.
We do our best to write for pilots, but not ONLY for pilots. If you want to know where you, as a pilot, fit into the grand aerospace scheme of things, we're a pretty good read.
And be assured, in a couple of weeks you'll start getting the fat issues again. If you still subscribe by then!
David L
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... oh yes, I knew I'd forget someone. To add to our list of readers before my Military pilot brethren (how could I forget them, I woz one) target Flight HQ with a smart bomb, we've also got to try to please everyone who manufactures, flies, operates, delivers, fires or drops serious defence devices ...
David L
David L
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David Learmont you have not said anything that has been said before. People, Pilots, Engineers, Designers et al all feel that they are being bypassed by Flight. Please comment and rectify.
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
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David
Thank you for your two witty and considered replies.
But as I'm sure you know I would like to take you up on a few points.
To your point:-
1) I dissagree with your "its that time of the year comment.
Were the industry big wigs on holiday on....
a) 6-12 Feb 2001 (up to S & L) 56 pages.
b) 10-16 July 2001 45 pages
c) 26 Sep - 2 Oct 2000 58 pages
Should I go on?
What was also immediatly aparrent was the vastly lower quality paper on which the latest copies were printed on compared to not so long ago.
2)I dont disagree with except that once you've found your perfect job in the back you should be able to find out about that comapany in the front. As for "get your money worth".
In less than one year you increased the price by 9.1% (way in excess of UK inflation) and used cheaper quality paper with less pages!!! What gives?
3) It is a lousy magazine. What "We" and that encompasses everyone, is REAL news, GOSSIP even, something that captures my imagination and tickles my fancy. What you appear to have done is aligned yourself with the suits and not the shop floor where the majority are.
Have you had a look at Airliner World or some of the other mentioned publications? They have a youthful charm that reminds me why I'm in this game. As I said at the begining of this thread "I used to walk expectantly to the newsagent". Now I pick up FI because I want an airline job and unfortunatly your magazine is the only real contender.
You also said that you do read PPRuNe well you obviously have not read all of this thread.
If you had you would not be trying to justify your magazines demise below mediocrity but apologising while promising things will improve. Not one person has come to FI's defence does that not tell you something.
What about the many people who have either cancelled or will cancel thier subscription does that not frighten your shareholders.
Point b) If you care about what we think and say Then do something about it.
I sent two e:mails of this thread to Murdo Morrison your editor why has he not had the courtesy to reply? Why hasn't he?
I await another witty and considered reply.
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: flaps to 60 ]
Thank you for your two witty and considered replies.
But as I'm sure you know I would like to take you up on a few points.
To your point:-
1) I dissagree with your "its that time of the year comment.
Were the industry big wigs on holiday on....
a) 6-12 Feb 2001 (up to S & L) 56 pages.
b) 10-16 July 2001 45 pages
c) 26 Sep - 2 Oct 2000 58 pages
Should I go on?
What was also immediatly aparrent was the vastly lower quality paper on which the latest copies were printed on compared to not so long ago.
2)I dont disagree with except that once you've found your perfect job in the back you should be able to find out about that comapany in the front. As for "get your money worth".
In less than one year you increased the price by 9.1% (way in excess of UK inflation) and used cheaper quality paper with less pages!!! What gives?
3) It is a lousy magazine. What "We" and that encompasses everyone, is REAL news, GOSSIP even, something that captures my imagination and tickles my fancy. What you appear to have done is aligned yourself with the suits and not the shop floor where the majority are.
Have you had a look at Airliner World or some of the other mentioned publications? They have a youthful charm that reminds me why I'm in this game. As I said at the begining of this thread "I used to walk expectantly to the newsagent". Now I pick up FI because I want an airline job and unfortunatly your magazine is the only real contender.
You also said that you do read PPRuNe well you obviously have not read all of this thread.
If you had you would not be trying to justify your magazines demise below mediocrity but apologising while promising things will improve. Not one person has come to FI's defence does that not tell you something.
What about the many people who have either cancelled or will cancel thier subscription does that not frighten your shareholders.
Point b) If you care about what we think and say Then do something about it.
I sent two e:mails of this thread to Murdo Morrison your editor why has he not had the courtesy to reply? Why hasn't he?
I await another witty and considered reply.
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: flaps to 60 ]
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In defence or should that be defense of FI it is still the most trusted and respected source of accurate aviation news.
I can understand the feelings of many pilots who feel it might not meet their needs however if you want facts, FI is the place for them.
The truth is out there.
I can understand the feelings of many pilots who feel it might not meet their needs however if you want facts, FI is the place for them.
The truth is out there.
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David, people in your business seem to move on at regular intervals, not because they are experts in their field but because they are expert editors.
You have been there for years and you have clearly read the disparaging remarks about FI.
I would be talking about years if I say I can't remember the last time I could even be bothered to lift the mag out of the rack.
You know your business far better than I do but my advice would be to take on another publication before the pack of cards comes tumbling down.
And, I agree, it seems like a century since Roger Bacon was remotely funny.
You have been there for years and you have clearly read the disparaging remarks about FI.
I would be talking about years if I say I can't remember the last time I could even be bothered to lift the mag out of the rack.
You know your business far better than I do but my advice would be to take on another publication before the pack of cards comes tumbling down.
And, I agree, it seems like a century since Roger Bacon was remotely funny.
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Thanks for the comments. And thanks for the invitation to combat the antipathy with wit. I think I'll politely decline the challenge on the grounds that it would get me nowhere.
Incidentally, Murdo (the editor) is away at the moment. Doing his civic duty on Jury Service, would you believe. Hence the non-replies. But I'll make sure he gets a full printout of this thread when he gets back.
Allan Winn, former editor who is now Flight's publisher, is in and following the comment daily.
You never know, this onslaught might make a difference.
I must take issue with one point, though. So we "align ourselves with the Suits", do we? I can assure you that we don't align ourselves with any group within the industry. We just serve the aerospace industry as a whole by reporting news, facts, analysis, and providing directories.
If your soul is lifted by Earnest K. Gann, St Exupery and Gillespie Magee Jr and you love racy anecdotes about real flying and pictures of beautiful aeroplanes, so do I, but that's not my "day job". Good aviation books and magazines which concentrate on the joy and beauty of flying look after my needs there, and it's clear that others of you have found magazines you like.
And at Flight we should deal in fun, rumours and gossip, should we? Forget it! PPRuNe does it much better.
I remember reading Flight avidly when I was a wannabe back in the late sixties, and the mag was much the same then in what it tried to do as it is now - it just employed the style of the time. It never was a magazine for the aviation enthusiast, it always was one for aerospace professionals, including pilots. It was staffed then by aviation enthusiasts, but I can assure you that today we still are.
I admit that Roger Bacon was more to my taste then than he is now, but that may be a function of my age (54 for those who care).
At Flight we know that we do please some of the people some of the time, and although doing the converse is acknowledged as impossible, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Keep bashing, PPRuNers. We'll keep listening and developing. What more can I say?
David L
Incidentally, Murdo (the editor) is away at the moment. Doing his civic duty on Jury Service, would you believe. Hence the non-replies. But I'll make sure he gets a full printout of this thread when he gets back.
Allan Winn, former editor who is now Flight's publisher, is in and following the comment daily.
You never know, this onslaught might make a difference.
I must take issue with one point, though. So we "align ourselves with the Suits", do we? I can assure you that we don't align ourselves with any group within the industry. We just serve the aerospace industry as a whole by reporting news, facts, analysis, and providing directories.
If your soul is lifted by Earnest K. Gann, St Exupery and Gillespie Magee Jr and you love racy anecdotes about real flying and pictures of beautiful aeroplanes, so do I, but that's not my "day job". Good aviation books and magazines which concentrate on the joy and beauty of flying look after my needs there, and it's clear that others of you have found magazines you like.
And at Flight we should deal in fun, rumours and gossip, should we? Forget it! PPRuNe does it much better.
I remember reading Flight avidly when I was a wannabe back in the late sixties, and the mag was much the same then in what it tried to do as it is now - it just employed the style of the time. It never was a magazine for the aviation enthusiast, it always was one for aerospace professionals, including pilots. It was staffed then by aviation enthusiasts, but I can assure you that today we still are.
I admit that Roger Bacon was more to my taste then than he is now, but that may be a function of my age (54 for those who care).
At Flight we know that we do please some of the people some of the time, and although doing the converse is acknowledged as impossible, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Keep bashing, PPRuNers. We'll keep listening and developing. What more can I say?
David L
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and another thing Mr.L, I suppose in the next issue it will be "where to buy the cheapest used rocket from Russia" or "Glider maintenance directory"
Never addressing the real issues facing the aviation industry. Look at the Wannabe forum.
Commercial training going up the spout with 2 large school going bust. General aviation and training dying a slow death. Why? because it has all been cocked up by the CAA.
Toilet paper type quality of mag!!!!!!!
Never addressing the real issues facing the aviation industry. Look at the Wannabe forum.
Commercial training going up the spout with 2 large school going bust. General aviation and training dying a slow death. Why? because it has all been cocked up by the CAA.
Toilet paper type quality of mag!!!!!!!
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I agree. FI has "lost it" in recent times. Just decided not to renew my subscription. I did actually try a little while back, but they seemed to make it a lot more difficult than it should have been and then I suddenly realised that I barely read it anymore anyway.
I do think that Airliner World has some pretty good stuff in it, but tend to feel that it is aimed more at the spotter than the professional; whereas Flight is aimed at the later.
Personally I prefer the Transair catalogue - damn fine read!! And its free.
I do think that Airliner World has some pretty good stuff in it, but tend to feel that it is aimed more at the spotter than the professional; whereas Flight is aimed at the later.
Personally I prefer the Transair catalogue - damn fine read!! And its free.