Santa Maria HF c alling for REECH-1005
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Santa Maria HF c alling for REECH-1005
Hi Guys,
On December the 21th I flew from Amsterdam to the Dominican Rep.
In contact with Santa Maria HF I was asked by ATC to call REECH-1005, because he was too late with reporting for about an hour!
All a/c in the SXM area were asked to call this 1005 on guard and 123,45.
Does anybody know how this was ended?
Thanks!!
Merry X-mas!
Skylark3
On December the 21th I flew from Amsterdam to the Dominican Rep.
In contact with Santa Maria HF I was asked by ATC to call REECH-1005, because he was too late with reporting for about an hour!
All a/c in the SXM area were asked to call this 1005 on guard and 123,45.
Does anybody know how this was ended?
Thanks!!
Merry X-mas!
Skylark3
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C/S REACH 1005 - USAF Transport/Military charter callsign. Not surprised to hear his, their R/T is appalling.
Bear in mind they may well be on a 3 pilot 26 hr day!!!
Bear in mind they may well be on a 3 pilot 26 hr day!!!
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Not surprised either, these guys never seem to know where they are coming from or going to! RT is dangerously bad, scary to think they are US military. Have heard ATC calling them repeatedly on many occasions.
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Reach is the callsign for USAF Air Mobility Command and their civilian contrators. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a Southern Air or Kallita, as they have a lot of new pilots who have never made a crossing before going to work there.
Not a slam or a flame on Southern or Kallita pilots, in general because I wouldn't completely rule out the USAF or Atlas.
Not a slam or a flame on Southern or Kallita pilots, in general because I wouldn't completely rule out the USAF or Atlas.
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Reach
Apalling is an understatement.
Flying over Turkish airspace all frequencies are filled with US military aircraft that have no clue about ICAO RT procedures or phraseology. One is hard pressed to get a call in as the yapping is constant.
To make things worse are the air to air refuelling operations that are done on a low altitude and there seems to be a problem hearing what Ankara is saying.
Most culprits are actually military and not contractors...
AD
Flying over Turkish airspace all frequencies are filled with US military aircraft that have no clue about ICAO RT procedures or phraseology. One is hard pressed to get a call in as the yapping is constant.
To make things worse are the air to air refuelling operations that are done on a low altitude and there seems to be a problem hearing what Ankara is saying.
Most culprits are actually military and not contractors...
AD
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When I flew these trips (in what was then MAC) we were controlled by discrete radio entities across the N. Atlantic and Pacific...as I remember, Loring, Lajes, and a few others that now slip my mind. When did this stop, and these flights start calling Santa Maria, Prestwick, etc, directly? I also remember that we had no selcal; we were 'expected' to spend 7 hours listening watch on HF. This was 'done' by turning the volume way down until a scheduled call was necessary; unless reception was unusually good, you'd be hard pressed to hear these calls. Had we not turned down the volume, none of us would ever pass an FAA hearing test today. Possibly same problem 30+ years later, that is, USAF too cheap to install selcals? Anyone remember "SkyKing SkyKing, this is Fuchu Fuchu, do not answer do not answer break-break....etc"?
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I remember the same thing, I retired off the C-141B in 1993.
To my understanding the replacement for the C141 the C-17 had no selcal either.
The military expected you to go deaf listening for these calls on crossings.
Every medical your hearing test were worse, this plus the normal noise.
As far as ATC and the Military I doubt they were wrong.
I bet if you check your Notams you will find that A/R was scheduled at certain alltitudes in this area.
I would blame Turkish ATC not the military.
Their English is not as good as you would expect.
But then again neither is my Turkish.
Since I have a home there now I am trying to improve my Turkish.
They think their English is perfect.
Go figure.
To my understanding the replacement for the C141 the C-17 had no selcal either.
The military expected you to go deaf listening for these calls on crossings.
Every medical your hearing test were worse, this plus the normal noise.
As far as ATC and the Military I doubt they were wrong.
I bet if you check your Notams you will find that A/R was scheduled at certain alltitudes in this area.
I would blame Turkish ATC not the military.
Their English is not as good as you would expect.
But then again neither is my Turkish.
Since I have a home there now I am trying to improve my Turkish.
They think their English is perfect.
Go figure.
Last edited by Earl; 26th Dec 2004 at 18:47.
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We live in a period when it has become fashionable to knock virtually every aspect of American existence. Fuelled by such dismal organisations as the BBC, we get a staple diet of anti-American propaganda and gradually we join the 'in crowd' of regailing our friends with tales of American ineptitude and foolishness. Half truths, sweeping generalisations, and comparing the worst of them with the best of us all combine to give a very incomplete and inaccurate picture of reality. Before you know it, everyone is sharing their little anecdotes of how bad the Americans did this and that, and how great they themselves were in such and such a situation. A ready audience gleefully accepts it all as true and thereby confirms their deeply held prejudices and so it goes on.
This thread is a fine example of such foolishness in action and is sadly so predictable - "the yanks are all such dorks, the Europeans are just so fantastic at all they do, etc, etc...." A more balanced reflection, which needless to say will not happen, would lead people to realise that there are times when representatives of all nations do not perform as well as they should and other times when they exhibit a level of excellence most of us can only dream of.
Incidentally, I am British through and through and spent many years in the RAF listening to my colleagues saying how bad the yanks were at just about everything. Initially I believed all the propaganda myself, but over a period of time I came to realise that although not perfect the American record in aviation is simply incredible and one with which no other nation can compete - least of all anyone in Europe. It is only recently that the Europeans have started to compete on even terms in commercial aviation with the excellent work of Airbus. They are still many years behind America in virtually every other sphere of aviation.
I am not asking for everyone to bow at America's feet, but I am suggesting that the views expressed on this thread (and indeed many others) are imbalanced. In my mind the holders of these views have the same level of credibility that would be given to people who declare with absolute certainty that all blacks are stupid or all Frenchmen smell of garlic!
This thread is a fine example of such foolishness in action and is sadly so predictable - "the yanks are all such dorks, the Europeans are just so fantastic at all they do, etc, etc...." A more balanced reflection, which needless to say will not happen, would lead people to realise that there are times when representatives of all nations do not perform as well as they should and other times when they exhibit a level of excellence most of us can only dream of.
Incidentally, I am British through and through and spent many years in the RAF listening to my colleagues saying how bad the yanks were at just about everything. Initially I believed all the propaganda myself, but over a period of time I came to realise that although not perfect the American record in aviation is simply incredible and one with which no other nation can compete - least of all anyone in Europe. It is only recently that the Europeans have started to compete on even terms in commercial aviation with the excellent work of Airbus. They are still many years behind America in virtually every other sphere of aviation.
I am not asking for everyone to bow at America's feet, but I am suggesting that the views expressed on this thread (and indeed many others) are imbalanced. In my mind the holders of these views have the same level of credibility that would be given to people who declare with absolute certainty that all blacks are stupid or all Frenchmen smell of garlic!
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 27th Dec 2004 at 15:51.
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Thank you very much
NSF--Thank you for that post.
Listen up guys, I'm an American who made his first Atlantic crossing in October.
I had never used HF or an INS before.
My R/T *was* horrible.
Today it's much better.
Just because you've been crossing the Atlantic and Turkey for 30 years doesn't mean everyone else has been as well.
Cut me a little slack, eh?
Cheers.
Listen up guys, I'm an American who made his first Atlantic crossing in October.
I had never used HF or an INS before.
My R/T *was* horrible.
Today it's much better.
Just because you've been crossing the Atlantic and Turkey for 30 years doesn't mean everyone else has been as well.
Cut me a little slack, eh?
Cheers.
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You betcha
I'm not military, I fly for a (sometimes) military contractor and we do have SelCal.
I can't imagine anything worse than constantly monitoring HF. What a nightmare.
I can't imagine anything worse than constantly monitoring HF. What a nightmare.
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_______________________________________________
"Listen up guys, I'm an American who made his first Atlantic crossing in October.
I had never used HF or an INS before."
_______________________________________________
Does your company / FTO teach you anything????
"Listen up guys, I'm an American who made his first Atlantic crossing in October.
I had never used HF or an INS before."
_______________________________________________
Does your company / FTO teach you anything????
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Well, I am an American, and I can say that Americans have horrible RT habits.
It's something that I harp on. I hear horrible slang being used, from both civil and military. I've even heard Naha Control go into a panic because a United used the words "going down" for reporting a descent.
Come on dorks. You think you sound cute, but you sound like asses to the rest of the world.
It's something that I harp on. I hear horrible slang being used, from both civil and military. I've even heard Naha Control go into a panic because a United used the words "going down" for reporting a descent.
Come on dorks. You think you sound cute, but you sound like asses to the rest of the world.
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zerozero,
I donīt think many people make a big deal of bad RT if itīs your first atlantic crossing and things donīt come out fluently.
Itīs the the constant use of slang by the so called īmore experiencedī pilots what annoys people and confuses controllers. Example: "Delta/United/AA 123, checking in at flight level three one oh."
Cultural sensitivity is not an Americaīs strongest point.
I donīt think many people make a big deal of bad RT if itīs your first atlantic crossing and things donīt come out fluently.
Itīs the the constant use of slang by the so called īmore experiencedī pilots what annoys people and confuses controllers. Example: "Delta/United/AA 123, checking in at flight level three one oh."
Cultural sensitivity is not an Americaīs strongest point.
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I asked a C5 driver who stopped off on at EGPK en-route to the Balkans a few years back about the SELCAL situation as they were never appended to H/F readbacks. Answer was that the aircraft were equipped but SOPs forbade their use, so as outlined in previous post, listening watch required. NIGHTMARE!
Most Ocean ATCOs aware of this will always try to raise a RCH c/s thats been out of touch for a while on VHF 'Guard' through the closest aircraft. 9 times out of 10 this solves the problem.
Rgds
T3
Most Ocean ATCOs aware of this will always try to raise a RCH c/s thats been out of touch for a while on VHF 'Guard' through the closest aircraft. 9 times out of 10 this solves the problem.
Rgds
T3
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Having flown in both Europe and the US, I can suggest a possible explanation.
In Europe, there is the expectation that R/T is being carried out in a foreign language: English is not the native tongue for most Europeans. To alleviate this, a common phraseology has been adopted. This common phraseology has a small vocabulary, to keep it as simple as possible.
The US situation is different. As the majority (still around 80% I believe, although the number is decreasing) of world aviation happens within the US, most voices you hear on the R/T within US airspace are native speakers of English. There is not the same requirement for strict phrasing.
No one gets R/T right the first try, and Yank-bashing will not encourage visiting aircrew to learn...
In Europe, there is the expectation that R/T is being carried out in a foreign language: English is not the native tongue for most Europeans. To alleviate this, a common phraseology has been adopted. This common phraseology has a small vocabulary, to keep it as simple as possible.
The US situation is different. As the majority (still around 80% I believe, although the number is decreasing) of world aviation happens within the US, most voices you hear on the R/T within US airspace are native speakers of English. There is not the same requirement for strict phrasing.
No one gets R/T right the first try, and Yank-bashing will not encourage visiting aircrew to learn...
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Blah, Blah, Blah. What a bunch of whiners. SKYLark asked a question about a possible dire scenario. No-one has answered it, or even addressed it. Does anyone know anything about this original thread!!!