GO diverts from STN - Shock Horror!
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Negligence, if there was any, would be on the part of the Operations department that allowed that crew to operate that flight if they knew the wx might fall below Cat1. Assuming the crew pointed out the possibility of a diversion, (and I am sure they would have, under the circumstances) if Ops. told them to go anyway and try then the pilots are blameless.
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On the one hand we have pig-ignorant journalists (sic) hacking away for neanderthal mentality tabloids and on the other we have pig-ignorant plane spotters and dare I say it even some pilots who engage keyboard before brain on here (apologies to pigs). Just because the word "training" was used we have a plethora of people who instantly jump to the conclusion that it was a wet behind the ears, junior effoh in the right hand seat and not a second captain who was undergoing line training. Just goes to show how easily many of the readers on here are as pathetic as the gutter press journalist who reported the story in the first place by jumping to wrong conclusions.. .. .I happened to hear the interview with the silly woman who started the story, the one where she lied about "hovering" over Stansted and then was told about the "trainee" over the PA. The journalist is guilty of reporting without verifying or ascertaining the facts and therefore has no credibility. Dipsticks like Elion who put their thoughts on this forum ruin their own credibility (honesty?!?) by assuming that the report was factual whereas it was 99% pure fiction (again, apologies to fiction writers).. .. .For all the other hack writers who lurk on here and don't have the cojones to admit it as well as all the other spotters and wannabes who think they know everything because they have more hours hanging around airports than it takes to do a PPL, perhaps you should invest in the time and expense of getting your professional licence and then going through the induction and training for a type rating for an airline followed by the line training and continual upgrading throughout the rest of your career to even begin to understand about what is involved with operating a modern jet aircraft in All Weather OPerationS before you jump into a thread like this one.. .. .The post by Palgia is another one of those that shows how someone with a tiny (almost imperceptable) bit of knowledge jumps in and makes an utter fool of themsleves. How someone with no experience of airline operations, possibly just undergoing PPL training, comes out with a quote like "...he should have known that fog might develop at the destination and should have not flown." and "...but somehow I feel it was probably his fault for not considering and interpreting all the weather info available." never ceases to amaze. If this person was to begin to actually consider what is involved in the job they might refrain from putting foot in mouth before making complete fools out of themselves. It was ignorant comments like these that got the Guvnor shot down. Don't pretend you know know what it's all about when you don't because you only open yourself up to ridicule.. .. .The original story was such a non-event but one stupid person who calls herself a journalist invented a story which the more respectable broadsheets idioticly picked up on and did themselves a lot of damage with the pilot community and then a few semi ignorant posters on here try to make themselves sound righteous and pompous by writing drivel that only shows them up to be spotters or PC gamers at best. Either wait for the facts or else make sure you know what is involved in AWOPS before you make comments that might show you up to be as pathetic as the journalist.
I have a few thoughts on the way this thread has developed. Was the fog actually forecast or as I believed it went below limits for Cat 1 unexpectedly, or while the aircraft was airborne. Surely all airlines have to train for Cat 3, we do most of it in the simulator, but both Captains and F/Os have to do 1 practice Cat 3 in the aircraft, during line training, before they become Cat 3 cleared, it seems unlucky that this ocurred before the trainee Captain was so cleared. Would a scheduled service Company really hold a aircraft on the ground if the weather was only forecast to go below Cat 1 limits? I pity the whole crew for the results of what I consider to be a perfectly reasonable decision, i.e divert if the planned destination has gone below limits. We are briefed to carry an extra 30 minutes hold fuel for destination if the weather is or is forecast to go below Cat 1 limits, thus holding over destination is possible, and likely, prior to an approach or diversion. It is always difficult to stay away from emotive words, turbulence, thunderstorms, bad weather etc during a PA, and my Company has a PA booklet for flight deck, to help in what to say and when to say it, currently being revised.
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Before adding to this I have to declare that I'm a single-prop PPL, who is a rather too regular Pax on short and long-haul, but have business interests in the industry. I belive in this industry, but believe you need to consider this problem more thoughtfully.. .. .Only a few of you have hit the key issue here.. .. .Its not the press - they write what they have to to sell papers. There are many exceptinally good journalists, but are, and always will be, some who are not always deeply familiar with their subject, and therefore not always completely truthful. . .We wont change that.. .. .Nor is the issue, in this instance, with the PA, as the damage appears to have been done on the ground.. .. .The issue is that you guys and gals dont just drive planes. You and the whole crew are responsible for delivering a service, and managing the expectation of the service.. .. .That starts when you walk through the terminal entrance, because you are seen and overheard from that moment on. You represent yourselves, your airline, and your industry.. .. .The majority of your Pax are not like me. They dont fly regularly, they know little to nothing about flying, and most are still very scared after 911.. .. .Very early on I was taught to 'engage brain before mouth' on the RT.. .Its the same either on the PA or when walking through the cabin or terminal.. .You are all educated, intelligent people.. .You owe it to yourselves to be as professional in your communications as you are in your flying.. .. .Now here's the crunch. . .I'm not just aiming at the GO pilot in this incident, but at most of you.. .There is an amazing variability in skills both on the PA and in the cabin. . .Some is unitelligable, some is plain and boring, some try to add more value and suceed, some try this and fail.. .. .And yes, regularly, I hear the use of inappropriate phrases:-. .'as I feared'. .'dont worry'. .'this is a regular problem on the A340, and is nothing to worry about'. .'slight delay while we have some ground staff look at an engine problem'. .. .And these are from the 'pros', BA, Cathay, KLM, AA, Virgin... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .. .The solution to the problem of communications is in your hands, and your hands only.. .If you don't communicate clearly, then perceptions will run wild.. .. .In a sense, the rather jocular suggestion to say 'sit down, strap-in, shut up', is not so bad. Its clear, concise, and not open to interpretation. . .Just needs a little more polishing...!!. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Maybe a good start would be for some-one ON the flight deck to start a thread of things NOT to say on the PA....
Controversial, moi?
AirScrew. .. .It really is inappropriate to post a thoughtful and logical reply on this BBS. You really should temper it with some sweeping generalisations and personal abuse to really fit in with the general tone of R & N. Be careful or you will gain a reputation for talking sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .On a serious note I agree that many PAs from the flight deck crew (don't get me started on the breathless marathons that pass for CC PAs) are cringe making.. .. .In my company we are legally bound to include several mundane, boring and quite worthless items ie codeshare partner for the particular flight, the importance of observing the safety briefing, the importance of keeping one's seatbelt fastened and introduction of the senior CC member. If people are still awake I hope they listen to the other parts of the PA which I do try to keep relevant and of interest.. .. .My pet hates -. .. .'Sit back and relax and enjoy the flight with us' Ugh! Most people do not enjoy flying and far less enjoy being told to sit back and relax.. .. .PAs spoken like they are part of a speed talking contest. Listen to professional broadcasters speed of delivery for a clue.
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Point well taken. We all need to lighten up at times.. .. .I'm glad some-one agrees one the cringe-PA syndrome.. .I should have added that, three times recently, I've gone and complemented a captain, an FO, and a cabin crew on particularly good and useful PA manners.. .I do pay complements where they are justified.. .. .On the serious note, I was reading the thread 'what am I reading' - and tried to inject some humour, which was totally overlooked.. .I wont dare to draw a link between books and bores!!
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Sad that Sir Algernon feels that only fully fledged air transport operating captains have anything worth saying.
He should be flattered that enthusiastic amateurs are interested enough to want to attempt constructive comment and debate about his career.
Perhaps we all can learn from "outsiders" airing their views.
He should be flattered that enthusiastic amateurs are interested enough to want to attempt constructive comment and debate about his career.
Perhaps we all can learn from "outsiders" airing their views.
