BA pilots told not to trust BA engineers
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BA pilots told not to trust BA engineers
Latest message to Big Airways flight crew is:
Great so we can't trust Maintrol (engineering) unless a flight ops manager has authorised the action. Do these people ever fly in the real world? How long is it going to take to get this authorisation? How do we get this authorisation at 39 000ft? Another backwards step for flight safety and another giant leap forward for the red tape brigade.
At the Captain's discretion, technical advice may be requested. Before taking any action based on this advice the Captain should verify that the advice is authorised by an appropriate Flight Operations Department manager. Captains must then assess such information in relation to the situation concerned, prior to applying it.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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JBC - there's always ACARS and HF at 39,000ft and you would not have to accept the advice EVEN if SW says it is ok!!
The good news is that at 39,000ft if time is of the essence, the
if not you, sits on your left
The good news is that at 39,000ft if time is of the essence, the
appropriate Flight Operations Department manager.
Engineering Advice!
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as an engineer that works in maintrol( not BA but close) pilots are free to reject our advice.....but if a pilot did reject any advice with a safety implication we to can write MORs and even file direct to the CAA without going via the company.
We occasionally have 3 way talks with the pilot/fleetmanager and Maintrol on interpretation of the MEL as in some cases the meanings to engineering differ from that of our pilot freinds.
As these occur with the aircraft on the ground at an outstation I have no difficulty though the real enemy OPS sometimes does.
Just a different veiw on the topic
We occasionally have 3 way talks with the pilot/fleetmanager and Maintrol on interpretation of the MEL as in some cases the meanings to engineering differ from that of our pilot freinds.
As these occur with the aircraft on the ground at an outstation I have no difficulty though the real enemy OPS sometimes does.
Just a different veiw on the topic
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I think the concern is that once given advice, it should not be followed unless it has specifically been approved by a flight ops manager. You may have the best advice to give me available. But now it appears that I must run your advice past a manager BEFORE I can act upon it.
Makes me think someone followed some advice they should not have.
I think the concern is that once given advice, it should not be followed unless it has specifically been approved by a flight ops manager. You may have the best advice to give me available. But now it appears that I must run your advice past a manager BEFORE I can act upon it.
Makes me think someone followed some advice they should not have.
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I like it !!!
1) Call engineering at my discretion ask for some advice....
2) Check & obtain name of manager that authorised it....
3) Apply the advice...
When the proverbial hits the fan refer to item 2 !!!
1) Call engineering at my discretion ask for some advice....
2) Check & obtain name of manager that authorised it....
3) Apply the advice...
When the proverbial hits the fan refer to item 2 !!!
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Let me think about this
Do I trust an Eng or a Manager?
That was difficult.
Personally speaking I have never been disappointed by the professionalism or knowledge in the hangar. Waterworld is a differernt metter. I wish that I was as good at my job as the Eng's are at their's. (Even with EWS!!)
Do I trust an Eng or a Manager?
That was difficult.
Personally speaking I have never been disappointed by the professionalism or knowledge in the hangar. Waterworld is a differernt metter. I wish that I was as good at my job as the Eng's are at their's. (Even with EWS!!)
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At the Captain's discretion, technical advice may be requested. Before taking any action based on this advice the Captain should verify that the advice is authorised by an appropriate Flight Operations Department manager.
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If I worked for BA, I would ignore a stupid statement like this from management.
When a captain asks for technical advice - that's what he wants - technical advice - not extra management input. The captain is already a senior manager in his company anyway- and if he isn't, or isn't regarded as one it is a very sad state of affairs.
Once the captain has the advice, he chooses to accept or not - and then takes the can for everything that results from it - that's what he's paid for and that's what the passengers and crew are relying on him doing.
When a captain asks for technical advice - that's what he wants - technical advice - not extra management input. The captain is already a senior manager in his company anyway- and if he isn't, or isn't regarded as one it is a very sad state of affairs.
Once the captain has the advice, he chooses to accept or not - and then takes the can for everything that results from it - that's what he's paid for and that's what the passengers and crew are relying on him doing.
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This seems a very odd thing to do. im trying to read this in a different way but it all seems to be pointing to the strange need to verify maintrol advice.
BA's maintrol is located in the compass ctr along with OPS where they surley talk to one another anyway. Is this just to ensure that any engineering advice that has an operational impact is also agreed with ops? im trying to read between the lines. For an ops manager to disregard engineering advice would be lunacy! obviously the final decision rests with the commander.
I know a couple of maintrol Eng's and what they dont know about there a/c could be writen on the back of a postage stamp!
Being a BA eng myself i find this very worrying but not surprising.
BA's maintrol is located in the compass ctr along with OPS where they surley talk to one another anyway. Is this just to ensure that any engineering advice that has an operational impact is also agreed with ops? im trying to read between the lines. For an ops manager to disregard engineering advice would be lunacy! obviously the final decision rests with the commander.
I know a couple of maintrol Eng's and what they dont know about there a/c could be writen on the back of a postage stamp!
Being a BA eng myself i find this very worrying but not surprising.
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your airline must be adequately staffed. how many flt ops big boys you have. it sounds you'll have 'an appropiate flt ops manager' on duty 24 hours of the day otherwise how can people make swift decision for a difficult situation at FL 390 at 2:00 am
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As an Engineer I can see where this is coming from.
Advice from Maintrol is just that, there is no legally binding signature in the tech log.
If it all goes horribly wrong after the crew has been advised to percuss valve X, cycle switch Y or reset circuit breaker Z, can Maintrol be held legally responsible ? I doubt it.
Advice from Maintrol is just that, there is no legally binding signature in the tech log.
If it all goes horribly wrong after the crew has been advised to percuss valve X, cycle switch Y or reset circuit breaker Z, can Maintrol be held legally responsible ? I doubt it.
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Always thought that the Captain had to consult the "In Charge" with decisions about the aircraft.!!! remember the previous thread a few months ago after a Chirp report from a CSD...?
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Suggs and ratarsedagain.....................
Thank you very much for the vote of confidence. I will go off to work this afternoon with a smile on my face and a spring in my step!
Love
LP
Thank you very much for the vote of confidence. I will go off to work this afternoon with a smile on my face and a spring in my step!
Love
LP