Are you still enjoying it?!!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: phoenix, AZ, USA
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I agree with Nik Nak. My dad is a retired airline pilot and all I ever wanted to do was to fly. I've been doing this for 25 years and have just over 13 to go unless they change the retirement age and I can extend. Some days are a lot longer than others but I have put in my time in the cubicals (IT back when I got out of college) and there is nothing better than being in an office that moves up and down and across the continent. I bitch about my schedules and the contract like everyone else and I agree that my job is not as cushy as my dad had it but this still beats working for a living.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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At the age of 12 on my only holiday as a kid to LHR I decided then that I wanted to fly. Some how I managed to fool the RAF recruiters and they let me in. To my sheer disbelief I than managed to fool all my instructers and two Chief Instructors on chop rides and some three star popped a set of RAF wings on my chest at the age of 19.
I had a wonderful military career, though as cut backs after cut backs set in, I came close to saying that dreaded phrase of the knackered old sh**'s "It's not like it used to be". Then I was the subject of an accident (not of my own making I hasten to add) and I was permanently grounded.
I started to move into computing and web design and initially I didn't miss flying. Then I discovered that I shouldn't really have been permanently grounded and I managed to get a restricted class 1. Two years ago I got back into professional flying and I realised what I had been missing. Not the nice shiney high tech aircraft we now fly but I missed my fellow pilots - the banter, the whingeing, the desire to get things right etc.
The honeymoon lasted for 6-9 months and after taking off my rose filtered glasses I saw a management that couldn't give a toss and ignored FTL's so I resigned. I am now very fortunate to be flying for a small expanding airline where it is a pleasure to go to work. Yes we are away from home a lot but that goes with the job and if the marriage can't cope with that then it is not the right job to be in. Our management aren't perfect but then they have a business to run - it's up to us through the strength of collective membership to ensure our T & C's don't get erroded to unacceptable levels.
At the end of the day there are far harder ways of earning a living and if its not fun any more either give it up or build/buy/hire a little piston and remind yourselves why we entered this wonderful profession in the first place. Great thread keep it going.
I had a wonderful military career, though as cut backs after cut backs set in, I came close to saying that dreaded phrase of the knackered old sh**'s "It's not like it used to be". Then I was the subject of an accident (not of my own making I hasten to add) and I was permanently grounded.
I started to move into computing and web design and initially I didn't miss flying. Then I discovered that I shouldn't really have been permanently grounded and I managed to get a restricted class 1. Two years ago I got back into professional flying and I realised what I had been missing. Not the nice shiney high tech aircraft we now fly but I missed my fellow pilots - the banter, the whingeing, the desire to get things right etc.
The honeymoon lasted for 6-9 months and after taking off my rose filtered glasses I saw a management that couldn't give a toss and ignored FTL's so I resigned. I am now very fortunate to be flying for a small expanding airline where it is a pleasure to go to work. Yes we are away from home a lot but that goes with the job and if the marriage can't cope with that then it is not the right job to be in. Our management aren't perfect but then they have a business to run - it's up to us through the strength of collective membership to ensure our T & C's don't get erroded to unacceptable levels.
At the end of the day there are far harder ways of earning a living and if its not fun any more either give it up or build/buy/hire a little piston and remind yourselves why we entered this wonderful profession in the first place. Great thread keep it going.
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I've read all your messages and I'm rather surprised at the low spirits amongst pilots, compared to the quite high spirits amongst flight attendants (there is a topic quite like this one in the cabin crew section of this forum).
How come there seems to be more pilots bored of their job than flight attendants ?
Now, so that I can improve my vocabulary (and my understanding of all the messages above) : what does "T's and C's" mean ? It's mentioned several times...
thanks
How come there seems to be more pilots bored of their job than flight attendants ?
Now, so that I can improve my vocabulary (and my understanding of all the messages above) : what does "T's and C's" mean ? It's mentioned several times...
thanks
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Not a real job !.
When ever I hear pilots going on like this and I start to have tiny doubts that I have the best job in the world I just remind myself about the 7 day shift spending 7 hours a day in a 707 fuel tank with a rivet gun.
There are some people above who would not be happy locked in the Northgate brewery with the female cast of baywatch.
There are some people above who would not be happy locked in the Northgate brewery with the female cast of baywatch.
Last edited by A and C; 30th Sep 2004 at 21:29.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I arrived into Gatwick earlier tonight on a Willo 3C and commenced descent overhead the Brest peninsula. Laid out before me was my stunning-looking Airbus cockpit and as I looked up I saw 100 miles plus ahead of me - the Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Southampton, Bournemouth and all of London laid out glowing in the dark. It was fantastic and even though I have seen the same sight on countless occasions I remarked to the FO that I do not think I will ever grow tired of it. Time will tell, butright now I gladly choose to enjoy those little moments that make all the other stuff so bearable. Who on earth will pay me the money I earn to have such a great time?
Left Seat 747
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put me on the side of the romantics
Yes, there is plenty of boredom and dealing with dumb management and all the other negative items described here. Never the less, I side with the few aviators in this thread who have described so eloquently the joy that is still there for many of us.
I have little sympathy for the whiners and complainers in this industry. I suppose it all has to do with how we value our job. For me it is not just about money. It is about the romance of the travel, the personal accomplishment, the fellowship, and flying those great big airplanes!
Really, really cool - and I am 61 years old. Had to do a "real" job for a while last year and boy, am I glad to be back in the cockpit!
I have little sympathy for the whiners and complainers in this industry. I suppose it all has to do with how we value our job. For me it is not just about money. It is about the romance of the travel, the personal accomplishment, the fellowship, and flying those great big airplanes!
Really, really cool - and I am 61 years old. Had to do a "real" job for a while last year and boy, am I glad to be back in the cockpit!
Join Date: May 2004
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Might I offer the thought that the 'love it despite everything - it's just soooo wonderful' lobby might be, at least in part, responsible for the continued acceptance of reduced earnings, increased time on duty, decreased standards, fewer opportunities to genuinely execute the task of flying an aircraft, and the fact that pilots tend to be treated by their 'managers' as little more than disobedient children...?
...only a thought - I must try not to have so many of them...
...only a thought - I must try not to have so many of them...
Join Date: May 2003
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Still love every moment of flying. Of course the challenges to come with it. I have seen Mount Everest so many times from FL 370. I have also flown over Manhattan late at night with the view of Statue of Liberty and the whole area. How about flying over Kowloon at 400 ft for a landing at Kai Tak!!
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Aviation is now, as much as any other branch, under influence of reducing costs.
Never needed to have a paycut though , and i feel pitty for those who must have right now , as in US Airways, according to my newspaper.
Went through bankruptcy of a former company , and had a job on the same day, actually the day before (!)
It seems very strange to me that companys are excisting, whith pilots who must pay for their uniform and more.
Or whose pilots are having their day's off, while on their stops abroad.
Those pilots must feel uncertain right now.
And we don't like that , that's what we are there for :
to stop and repair uncertain phases while on duty.
That's why we can't stand most of our colleagues in the office, because they will say, we'll see next week , we'll have to think about it or other apologies or whatever...
While we are in a real time environment, making real time thinking and seeing a direct result, can't wait a week sorry...
I can only speak for myself when i say :
I really love my job,
There is a lot of satisfaction in it,
in the flight itself, the problem solving, the good weather, the bad weather, the sunsets , the sunrises , the take off's , the arrivals , descents and approaches , the smooth landings , the concentration on the landings in very gusty conditions etcetera etcetera.
I have been flying since age 15 , now it's 22 years later.
And still think it's the best job there is. First solo on a glider, now my glider pilot license is not valid anymore.
But this is not a pitty because i know it will not be the same anymore when i'll join the glider society again.
It will be different and i know i will only miss my old friends when i drink a beer in the old clubhouse at night.
Things do change , not only in our branch.
But i am very glad , i made it all the way up.
Maybe one should wonder : "how would it feel if one didn't choose , and wasn't picked out, to become a pilot".
But than again i can only speak for myself.
Be proud,
Cheers.
P.s.
Being a penthouse photographer may be nice as well.
Never needed to have a paycut though , and i feel pitty for those who must have right now , as in US Airways, according to my newspaper.
Went through bankruptcy of a former company , and had a job on the same day, actually the day before (!)
It seems very strange to me that companys are excisting, whith pilots who must pay for their uniform and more.
Or whose pilots are having their day's off, while on their stops abroad.
Those pilots must feel uncertain right now.
And we don't like that , that's what we are there for :
to stop and repair uncertain phases while on duty.
That's why we can't stand most of our colleagues in the office, because they will say, we'll see next week , we'll have to think about it or other apologies or whatever...
While we are in a real time environment, making real time thinking and seeing a direct result, can't wait a week sorry...
I can only speak for myself when i say :
I really love my job,
There is a lot of satisfaction in it,
in the flight itself, the problem solving, the good weather, the bad weather, the sunsets , the sunrises , the take off's , the arrivals , descents and approaches , the smooth landings , the concentration on the landings in very gusty conditions etcetera etcetera.
I have been flying since age 15 , now it's 22 years later.
And still think it's the best job there is. First solo on a glider, now my glider pilot license is not valid anymore.
But this is not a pitty because i know it will not be the same anymore when i'll join the glider society again.
It will be different and i know i will only miss my old friends when i drink a beer in the old clubhouse at night.
Things do change , not only in our branch.
But i am very glad , i made it all the way up.
Maybe one should wonder : "how would it feel if one didn't choose , and wasn't picked out, to become a pilot".
But than again i can only speak for myself.
Be proud,
Cheers.
P.s.
Being a penthouse photographer may be nice as well.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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It beats working for a living but that is about all....
I have got a bit tired of the beancounter's version of 'The Death of a Thousand Cuts' or is it 'The Chinese Water Torture'? Both, even.
And then there is the odd freshly-minted training captain trying to impose his version of reality on reality, which can be a bit wearing....
But, put it down to laziness or a failure of the imagination, I haven't come up with anything else I would rather be doing right now. Taking pictures of penthouses? Where is the thrill in that?
And then there is the odd freshly-minted training captain trying to impose his version of reality on reality, which can be a bit wearing....
But, put it down to laziness or a failure of the imagination, I haven't come up with anything else I would rather be doing right now. Taking pictures of penthouses? Where is the thrill in that?
Just a numbered other
I loved it until 11/9 gave the companies the excuse to commence the 'whitevanmanisation' of our lives.
For that is all we are now, and to prove it, a new uniform that even the Tracy brothers would have looked daft in.
But, hey! At least I don't have to pay for it (yet).
I would assume that the happy guys are working for the old established carriers. Try a British LoCo forced to take on RYR and that disgusting MOL, and I fear your views would change.
Relentless grind is the job these days.
For that is all we are now, and to prove it, a new uniform that even the Tracy brothers would have looked daft in.
But, hey! At least I don't have to pay for it (yet).
I would assume that the happy guys are working for the old established carriers. Try a British LoCo forced to take on RYR and that disgusting MOL, and I fear your views would change.
Relentless grind is the job these days.
Join Date: May 2002
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I went into the profession with eyes wide open, and enjoyed it to start with, a challenge, and new.
Of course, like any job, this wears off unless given a new challenge, like a change of type or a command, but in my company these things aren't available.
I still enjoying the flying.
What I don't enjoy is the total lack of a life outside of work. With the working patterns we now have it is extremely difficult to have much of a work/life balance. 6 on, 2 off. Get home around 8pm before a day off, start at 6.30am after the 2nd day off. Not much chance for doing my own thing.
If the company would offer part-time working I would be there like a shot.
I think this is the reason that morale is low - in the golden days, there were more opportunities out there - for having fun at work (nightstops, real flying, etc.) and also outside of work - because there was enough time off. Most shift workers seem to do 4 on-4 off. What heaven that would be!!!!
I think most pilots are happy with the money, but not happy with the time away from the job.
Also, people's expectations don't help. The public seem to think that this is still a "glamorous" job - with loads of time off, sitting on beaches for a week, and earning £100k plus.
Its like we are supposed to be thankful for having such a good job.
I think the only answer, if you are not happy, is to go part-time, or if that isn't available, take all the unpaid/ part-paid leave in a year that you can.
If I only worked 3/4 as much, or at least had decent rosters, then I would be happy with the job.
Of course, like any job, this wears off unless given a new challenge, like a change of type or a command, but in my company these things aren't available.
I still enjoying the flying.
What I don't enjoy is the total lack of a life outside of work. With the working patterns we now have it is extremely difficult to have much of a work/life balance. 6 on, 2 off. Get home around 8pm before a day off, start at 6.30am after the 2nd day off. Not much chance for doing my own thing.
If the company would offer part-time working I would be there like a shot.
I think this is the reason that morale is low - in the golden days, there were more opportunities out there - for having fun at work (nightstops, real flying, etc.) and also outside of work - because there was enough time off. Most shift workers seem to do 4 on-4 off. What heaven that would be!!!!
I think most pilots are happy with the money, but not happy with the time away from the job.
Also, people's expectations don't help. The public seem to think that this is still a "glamorous" job - with loads of time off, sitting on beaches for a week, and earning £100k plus.
Its like we are supposed to be thankful for having such a good job.
I think the only answer, if you are not happy, is to go part-time, or if that isn't available, take all the unpaid/ part-paid leave in a year that you can.
If I only worked 3/4 as much, or at least had decent rosters, then I would be happy with the job.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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"Still enjoy the flying" so many of you say as a reason for being upbeat with this job. I used to be that way too in the beginning, but the grind of flying short haul, 12 hours per day, often up at 03:30, or to bed at 03:30, day in and day out, has taken the joy out of flying. I never thought I would experience it, but I'm starting to suffer from the symptoms of burn-out. Not good...
Anything done in excess leads eventually to boredom and complacency. Heck, even sex would be a pain if you were forced to do it every day for 8 hours!
I feel that the 45 hour work week that many of us have to endure (soon to be 60 hours here in the EU, thank you very much!) coupled with this monotonous and totally devoid of creativity job, such as this airline flying is, leads many of us to wish we would have taken a cushy 9-5 in a cubicle somewhere (like so many of our "smarter" management pilots).
And this constant refering to a 9-5 cubicle job as the only alternitive to flying? What? Are there no other jobs that a university educated, highly structured and professional, reliable and diligent person (pilot) can take? I'm surprised at the lack of imagination.
My younger brother embarked on a pilot career. Fortunately, I talked him out of it before he put in too much time and money, as I had. He now works for one of the companies that leases out the planes we fly. He travels the world negotiating deals with the airlines, living it up, wining and dining, having a great time and getting paid quite well. AND he gets to fly the birds (737 rated) a few times per month, just enough to keep it thrilling. He is oh so glad that I talked him out of an airline job. Soon he'll be vice-pres and making a hell of alot more than me.
For me, it's too late to change roads. Strapped down with debt, three kids to support and soon to be 43 years old I can only bite the bullet and try to keep sane. Fortunately, I'm now moving over to the long haul on the A340. While the flights are tedious, the life is better. Short haul is for the masochists.
For all the wannabies I say- DON'T DO IT! Fly as a hobby if you love it so much. Don't make it your profession!
Anything done in excess leads eventually to boredom and complacency. Heck, even sex would be a pain if you were forced to do it every day for 8 hours!
I feel that the 45 hour work week that many of us have to endure (soon to be 60 hours here in the EU, thank you very much!) coupled with this monotonous and totally devoid of creativity job, such as this airline flying is, leads many of us to wish we would have taken a cushy 9-5 in a cubicle somewhere (like so many of our "smarter" management pilots).
And this constant refering to a 9-5 cubicle job as the only alternitive to flying? What? Are there no other jobs that a university educated, highly structured and professional, reliable and diligent person (pilot) can take? I'm surprised at the lack of imagination.
My younger brother embarked on a pilot career. Fortunately, I talked him out of it before he put in too much time and money, as I had. He now works for one of the companies that leases out the planes we fly. He travels the world negotiating deals with the airlines, living it up, wining and dining, having a great time and getting paid quite well. AND he gets to fly the birds (737 rated) a few times per month, just enough to keep it thrilling. He is oh so glad that I talked him out of an airline job. Soon he'll be vice-pres and making a hell of alot more than me.
For me, it's too late to change roads. Strapped down with debt, three kids to support and soon to be 43 years old I can only bite the bullet and try to keep sane. Fortunately, I'm now moving over to the long haul on the A340. While the flights are tedious, the life is better. Short haul is for the masochists.
For all the wannabies I say- DON'T DO IT! Fly as a hobby if you love it so much. Don't make it your profession!
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I too got out! after ten years of Airlines I moved to a different part of the aviation world. Don't regret the move for one second : lower pay I must admit but, being treated as a professional once more and my contribution being valued is ample compensation.
Wanabes beware the luster of the big shiny jet soon dulls in the poison atmosphere of most Airlines
Wanabes beware the luster of the big shiny jet soon dulls in the poison atmosphere of most Airlines
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I want to say something in regard...
I gave up on flying 3 years ago, got my self a job in Computer repair/networking and I work for my self. I decide when to go to customers in need and if one day I just feel I want to be home I can do it without having to ask anybody. The money isn't great and because of that we can't really go out at nights, take trips every now and then or enjoy life in general. Now, if I wanted to, I could try to get more customers or eventually go working for a company 9 to 6. In either case, I would be working my ass off and I'd be away from home or I would be at home working until late at night, not being able to enjoy life anyway. Plus I would be doing something that I don't really enjoy as much as flying.
In any job there is good things and bad things. You live only once and I think you should take a job that satisfies you the most.
I think nothing can compare to the pilot job, when you are up in the air and watching the sun go down behind a carpet of clouds. I don't think anything can compare to the adrenaline flowing in your body during a take off or an instrument approach.
Being a pilot it's something I would be very proud of. Nothing can compare to that.
I could go on but I'll stop it here bacuse I have an appointment in half an hour and I really need to get going.
Just my 2 cents.
I gave up on flying 3 years ago, got my self a job in Computer repair/networking and I work for my self. I decide when to go to customers in need and if one day I just feel I want to be home I can do it without having to ask anybody. The money isn't great and because of that we can't really go out at nights, take trips every now and then or enjoy life in general. Now, if I wanted to, I could try to get more customers or eventually go working for a company 9 to 6. In either case, I would be working my ass off and I'd be away from home or I would be at home working until late at night, not being able to enjoy life anyway. Plus I would be doing something that I don't really enjoy as much as flying.
In any job there is good things and bad things. You live only once and I think you should take a job that satisfies you the most.
I think nothing can compare to the pilot job, when you are up in the air and watching the sun go down behind a carpet of clouds. I don't think anything can compare to the adrenaline flowing in your body during a take off or an instrument approach.
Being a pilot it's something I would be very proud of. Nothing can compare to that.
I could go on but I'll stop it here bacuse I have an appointment in half an hour and I really need to get going.
Just my 2 cents.
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I still enjoy the flying in a day to day sense, but the career opportunities seem to be getting pretty limited, and that is what's worrying me. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on a turbo-prop, and a turbo-prop salary. Enjoying the view doesn't pay the mortgage. 
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Yes - I do...
...happens quite often that we glide (with those Rolls-Royces idling) over the very same gliderport where it all started 28 years ago when a young boy soloed his first time with an ASK-13 sailplane.
Even though the view from the left seat of a Boeing 757 is bit different the enjoyment and fun is still around... And I do feel that I'm living the best of life there is. Absolutely no doubd about it!
Even though the view from the left seat of a Boeing 757 is bit different the enjoyment and fun is still around... And I do feel that I'm living the best of life there is. Absolutely no doubd about it!
Last edited by Aviate378; 15th Oct 2004 at 06:26.
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Hey guys & gals; let's not get confused here.
There's the job, and then there's the lifestyle.
The job's the almost the same, whoever you work for. True, the enviroment might be different, i.e. sunny climes or chilly cold rainy conditions; type a/c. The enjoyment of wooshing through lower space writing poetry as you marvel at nature's creations? fantastic!
The lifestyle depends entirely on who you are lucky, or unlucky, enough to work for; and even within that, it will depend on what type you fly. That criteria is often the luck of the draw. Therein lies the root difference in the comments made here.
After 10 airlines, following 5 years in GA, and 5 different countries, I can look back and say there were many wonderful experiences. I can also say that most of my bosses were absloute M.F.ers's who should not have been in charge of a supermarket trolley. Friends, who lucked in, and ended up on the gravy train of some major, also had the same opinion of their masters, but somehow found, after comparison, that they could live with their lot, and not wished to swop. Overall they were happy campers.
Some of us came up heads, others tails. C'est la vie.
Would I do it again? Probably. Would I recommend it to a buddy? only if an assured berth of the next shuttle could arranged. I agree with Hairbrushmadam, part-time is the way to go to escape the sweat shop. As someone commented earlier on another thread, half salary = twice the quality of life.
There's the job, and then there's the lifestyle.
The job's the almost the same, whoever you work for. True, the enviroment might be different, i.e. sunny climes or chilly cold rainy conditions; type a/c. The enjoyment of wooshing through lower space writing poetry as you marvel at nature's creations? fantastic!
The lifestyle depends entirely on who you are lucky, or unlucky, enough to work for; and even within that, it will depend on what type you fly. That criteria is often the luck of the draw. Therein lies the root difference in the comments made here.
After 10 airlines, following 5 years in GA, and 5 different countries, I can look back and say there were many wonderful experiences. I can also say that most of my bosses were absloute M.F.ers's who should not have been in charge of a supermarket trolley. Friends, who lucked in, and ended up on the gravy train of some major, also had the same opinion of their masters, but somehow found, after comparison, that they could live with their lot, and not wished to swop. Overall they were happy campers.
Some of us came up heads, others tails. C'est la vie.
Would I do it again? Probably. Would I recommend it to a buddy? only if an assured berth of the next shuttle could arranged. I agree with Hairbrushmadam, part-time is the way to go to escape the sweat shop. As someone commented earlier on another thread, half salary = twice the quality of life.